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[D] Playing with feel as opposed to build order. - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
March 16 2013 23:36 GMT
#61
On March 14 2013 22:51 danl9rm wrote:
people that copy them won't understand why they are doing them.
says-who/why? Oftentimes people will know exactly why they are running certain builds. It's not hard to know why a certain build is run.
if you are only always counting on your opponent macro'ing up as well, that's not knowing how to macro. That's just following a build order. Whooptydoo.
By practicing one or few build orders many times, they learn how to deal with various scenarios; they're still following the same x build order. Good build orders are designed to be effective against as many things as possible (such as rushes); running a build order doesn't assume anything of the opponent, it just runs a mathematically optimal strategy.
To be clear, I'm not saying build orders are bad, but they aren't the miracles people think they are if you don't create them yourself. To me, it's almost like saying, "Here, let me teach you how to do this calculus problem." All that information is worthless to someone that doesn't know how to do calculus already! It certainly is for someone that doesn't know how to add. When I'm helping noobs, I just talk them through their "build orders" as they do them and as they're thinking about them.
Of course build orders don't turn bronze players into grandmasters; that would be the equivalent of learning calculus without previously knowing addition.

I said with build orders, people of certain skill levels and understanding of the game (like platinum; not all platinums), can regularly beat others much greater than them (like masters, not all masters, and certainly NOT ALL THE TIME) using build orders.

The game is far less rewarding to ingenuity and micro than it was in Brood War for instance (although obviously some of that has to due with the different game mechanics, and of course it does still strongly exist in BW at the higher level play)
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Archen
Profile Joined April 2012
United States79 Posts
March 17 2013 01:12 GMT
#62
Playing with feeling seems to work very well, I use opening build orders but then just play by feel for the entire game. And I know stephano plays only by feel. He has no idea how he does it, he just does it.
"Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse." - Liquid.Nony
Jasiwel
Profile Joined June 2012
United States146 Posts
March 17 2013 01:49 GMT
#63
Well, if you do a build without knowing why, then it's detrimental. You need to know why you do that build, what exactly that build does for you and how it works against your opponent, and I think build orders are very important to understand in terms of game time itself. If you blindly follow a build just like you blindly create a build based off feel, then you're going to be severely underhanded against a competent opponent.
Minigun
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
619 Posts
March 18 2013 01:52 GMT
#64
On March 17 2013 01:04 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2013 13:45 ROOTMinigun wrote:
On March 15 2013 13:35 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
On March 15 2013 13:28 D_K_night wrote:
Much more so a zerg style to play based on gut feeling, reactionary on what you've scouted.

For Terran and Protoss, you absolutely do benefit from tight build orders and specific timings. That's why there's just so many guides on strict timings on when plop down what building based on your supply count.

I would say that for Terran, it's even more important to go by stricter build orders. You have to make up your mind on exactly what you're gonna do, and execute it all according to plan. If you go reactor widow mine but accidentally make two hellions, this can cost you the game, when suddenly stalkers + mcore show up at your doorstep.


Up to a certain point thats fine (say 25 food) but after that it's all improvised unless someone plays very rigid and predictable.

What happens when you get harrassed and lose a few units and can't afford that additional rax that your BO requires? It's all about improvisation and multitasking ability.


huh, there is really no such thing as "winging it" if you are an active player

A build isn't Just a list of when to get certain buildings. It's a tree with many branches, and yes a branch is reserved for games in which you lose a few workers....

"Winging it" only exists if you play infrequently

I never said winging it. Of course players have an idea o what their uni composition will be but only a small number of players build things by the food count or in a set order no manner what.


Improvise=winging it

Build orders very often go until the 15. It's more unlikely they don't than do. You are thinking build order as a list which doesn't vary which is not true.
“Quiet people have the loudest minds.” ― Stephen Hawking
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