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On March 16 2013 03:08 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 01:44 Plansix wrote:
What were people using for a PvP opening in HotS? I used to rely on the 3 stalker opening a lot when I played in WoL, but I am lost as to how to open safely in HotS and use the mothership core. 3 Stalker + Mothership Core  A lot of pros go for that opening, you only Chrono the Nexus three times and put the rest of the CB in Warpgate research. 9 Pylon 13 Gate 14/15 Gas 15/16 Pylon 18 Cybernetic 19 Gas 20 Gate Stalker -> +2 Stalker -> Mothership Core From here you can either keep adding some Probes or throw down an additional Gate I like to go for the tech choice, still you hit incredibly early with 5 Stalkers and the Mothership Core, enough to destroy almost every Sentry based defense. Both Stargate and Robo have ups and downs but I like to get Stargate and an Oracle for detection/harass while his units are defending his base. The key is that you hit before Tech/an Expansion kicks in, meaning you will trade cost efficient up until then and kill some builds.
What if you play on large maps like Whirlwind or Star Station? Won't the push be delayed?
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On March 16 2013 03:37 Lauriel wrote:
I've started just opening phoenix against zerg. It's still very good, and I've found that it dissuades them from going muta, which is the hardest thing for me to defend consistently right now.
On another note, has anyone noticed that protoss has *a lot* of activated abilities that all need to be used at about the same time? I'm having a hard time using them all at once even with multiple hotkeys.
Forcefield, guardian shield, time warp, storm, prismatic alignment, graviton beam, blink...I just find I wind up miscontrolling something when I try to do them all. By comparison, the other races don't seem to have nearly as many. Not a balance whine, just wondering how I should go about improving that aspect of my play. Was a masters protoss in WoL, haven't started ranked games yet in HoTS. I had to move all my gateways to 5 rather than 3 (I used to do 1 for main army, 2 for templar or phoenixes, 3 for gateways, 4 for nexii, 5 for stargate, 6 for robo) and move everything else over one so I can have 3 hotkeys for army now. Main army on 1, templar/phoenixes on 2 and oracles or mothership core on 3. It is kinda crazy but I am getting used to it. After having gateway on 3 for 2 years it is really hard to break that habit.
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On March 16 2013 05:45 Xaeldaren wrote:Can someone give me some tips on how to improve based on this game? I was trying out a safe Gate/Robo/Gate expand and eventually just got owned by a 2 base Thor/Hellbat/Banshee/Raven all-in. I think a lot of it was due to indecision and poor decision making on my part, but I'd love any input people could give me. http://drop.sc/310544
Honestly when I send an observer into a terran base and see stuff like that, I abandon the ground game completely. Most of the time I cancel one of my forges, and get chargelot/archon/dt while I run screaming toward skytoss. The first few trades you make will be something like chargelot/immortal/archon/void/ht adding more stargates as you get a third and 4th. Eventually you just get mass void/tempest/phoenix and roll him over that way, phasing out the ground game completely. Mineral dump is cannons, and keep his base count in check with constant DT/zealot counterattacks from the 4-5 gates you have. If you let it get off the ground you're in trouble, so play really safe against that kind of stuff.
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I see no way of stopping way to early TeleportVac mine drops on some of the retardedly close air and ground position maps. Any tips accept from waiting for the patch? :D I will be way too behind, if I have to make enough stalkers or tech to stop those drops.
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On March 16 2013 07:20 BaDMannerS wrote:
I see no way of stopping way to early TeleportVac mine drops on some of the retardedly close air and ground position maps. Any tips accept from waiting for the patch? :D I will be way too behind, if I have to make enough stalkers or tech to stop those drops.
I've been having plenty of success with just positioning, really. I've even stopped drops without paying attention a couple of times, where I'll come back to my base and hear something exploding, turned out it was a widowmine.
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quick question: when if at all, is the regular mothership used?
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4 stalkers per base and observer in every base should do the trick. The mines simply refuse to die before burrowing with that ridiculous HP. Oh, wait, how the fock am I supposed to have this army and 2 observers in early to mid game? :D
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On March 16 2013 07:20 BaDMannerS wrote:
I see no way of stopping way to early TeleportVac mine drops on some of the retardedly close air and ground position maps. Any tips accept from waiting for the patch? :D I will be way too behind, if I have to make enough stalkers or tech to stop those drops.
i've been doing a 3gate blink stalker robo opening vs fast-gas terran with no techlab barracks (so assuming widow mine). it has been a great opening into expanding vs this, or can expand when your attack does no damage should yur opponent go for bio! just a recommendation
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On March 16 2013 07:35 wajd wrote:
quick question: when if at all, is the regular mothership used?
cloaking and the additional health is nice, but not necessary. i'd say spend your money on other high-tech than turning a mothership core into a mothership! i guess the situation youre asking is if you have a ton of resources and very little chance of losing
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On March 16 2013 07:37 RyanRushia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 07:20 BaDMannerS wrote:
I see no way of stopping way to early TeleportVac mine drops on some of the retardedly close air and ground position maps. Any tips accept from waiting for the patch? :D I will be way too behind, if I have to make enough stalkers or tech to stop those drops. i've been doing a 3gate blink stalker robo opening vs fast-gas terran with no techlab barracks (so assuming widow mine). it has been a great opening into expanding vs this, or can expand when your attack does no damage should yur opponent go for bio! just a recommendation
Aren't you too behind, if you do that tech so early on, while he just relaxes and mines on 2 base, defended by bunker and rines?
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is it necessary to get earlyish robo bay anymore? i've been opening up SG tech exclusivley in all three matchups and feel like you can simply use oracle to provide needed detection. so against a fast teching factory, i would save energy and be content to play an even game of slightly delayed expansion, or using it to harsss against 1 rax fast expand. from there i obtain twilight forge and using phoenixes to help me shut down dropship play. phoenix can engage medivacs in area, causing unloads or fight drops in combintion with zealots very well. i find that 2 phoenix/drop ship is good enough defensively. killing the medivacs and liftign the marauders in conjunction with zealots just seems so mcu hbetter . SG play allows me to engage and deny harassment proactively instead of reactively.
it's also nice cuz you can transition into a 2 base void ray allin kind of like the old immortal bust except off two base with oracle spotting for widows.
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On March 16 2013 06:45 ThaReckoning wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:45 Xaeldaren wrote:Can someone give me some tips on how to improve based on this game? I was trying out a safe Gate/Robo/Gate expand and eventually just got owned by a 2 base Thor/Hellbat/Banshee/Raven all-in. I think a lot of it was due to indecision and poor decision making on my part, but I'd love any input people could give me. http://drop.sc/310544 Honestly when I send an observer into a terran base and see stuff like that, I abandon the ground game completely. Most of the time I cancel one of my forges, and get chargelot/archon/dt while I run screaming toward skytoss. The first few trades you make will be something like chargelot/immortal/archon/void/ht adding more stargates as you get a third and 4th. Eventually you just get mass void/tempest/phoenix and roll him over that way, phasing out the ground game completely. Mineral dump is cannons, and keep his base count in check with constant DT/zealot counterattacks from the 4-5 gates you have. If you let it get off the ground you're in trouble, so play really safe against that kind of stuff.
Well I'd like to take this back. This idea used to work in WoL, but that was before widow mines. You can't even engage mech with an air army anymore, so this is another issue I have to figure out. All these new t/z units don't seem to have any counters that I can think of, it's really disheartening.
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I've still been having little luck versus widow mine drops if the player is competent. I've beaten Terran players who have done a poor job with the drop, but versus competent players I have a difficult time - I am ranked about #250 in NA masters.
Originally, my plan was to scout out what they were doing, and if I suspected widow mine drops I would put an observer and three stalkers in each mineral line, this way the stalkers would kill the widow mine just before it could fire it's first missile. That works when the Terran drops one mine, but I have been encountering more and more Terran players who drop at least two mines from two medivacs - one at the natural and one in the main. So that would mean you need 12 stalkers - 6 in each mineral line, with an observer - but even that doesn't work because your stalkers will not be in position to fire on both mines, and then there's always overkill from the stalker A.I.
It's difficult to position observers along the flight paths because you need one observer to scout their base / see if they move out, one observer for each flight path - but then you have none with your army. So if a medivac comes at a weird angle and makes it in your base, you have no way to kill it or it's cargo. So unless you want to make five observers - 1 for his base, 1 for each flight path, 1 at each mineral line - you're going to be risking something somewhere.
Any detailed advice? Saying that you've had luck with blink stalker openings is fine, but how did it actually prevent the drop? Right now widow mines are the only thing I'm having a lot of trouble with, I can seemingly put all my money towards trying to stop it - which is a bad idea in it's own right - and they still get shots off at my probe line. I think, personally, that they need an HP reduction, down to 40 or 50 - not 90.
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On March 16 2013 07:37 RyanRushia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 07:20 BaDMannerS wrote:
I see no way of stopping way to early TeleportVac mine drops on some of the retardedly close air and ground position maps. Any tips accept from waiting for the patch? :D I will be way too behind, if I have to make enough stalkers or tech to stop those drops. i've been doing a 3gate blink stalker robo opening vs fast-gas terran with no techlab barracks (so assuming widow mine). it has been a great opening into expanding vs this, or can expand when your attack does no damage should yur opponent go for bio! just a recommendation
Going off what I wrote above - this is fine advice, but how does the 3 gate blink stalker opening help prevent the drops? Are you stopping the medivacs? Are you killing the mines? How many observers are you making and where do you place them?
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On March 16 2013 10:02 ThaReckoning wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 06:45 ThaReckoning wrote:On March 16 2013 05:45 Xaeldaren wrote:Can someone give me some tips on how to improve based on this game? I was trying out a safe Gate/Robo/Gate expand and eventually just got owned by a 2 base Thor/Hellbat/Banshee/Raven all-in. I think a lot of it was due to indecision and poor decision making on my part, but I'd love any input people could give me. http://drop.sc/310544 Honestly when I send an observer into a terran base and see stuff like that, I abandon the ground game completely. Most of the time I cancel one of my forges, and get chargelot/archon/dt while I run screaming toward skytoss. The first few trades you make will be something like chargelot/immortal/archon/void/ht adding more stargates as you get a third and 4th. Eventually you just get mass void/tempest/phoenix and roll him over that way, phasing out the ground game completely. Mineral dump is cannons, and keep his base count in check with constant DT/zealot counterattacks from the 4-5 gates you have. If you let it get off the ground you're in trouble, so play really safe against that kind of stuff. Well I'd like to take this back. This idea used to work in WoL, but that was before widow mines. You can't even engage mech with an air army anymore, so this is another issue I have to figure out. All these new t/z units don't seem to have any counters that I can think of, it's really disheartening.
Yeah, it's bothersome. I guess all-ins every single game are the only way to play. Maybe Immortal/Sentry + MSC for time bomb vs. Zerg, and 4 gate robo immortal bust with an observer vs Terran?
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Huk's response to widow mine drops was to build a cannon in his main and natural mineral line. Innovation didn't do any damage with his opening.
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On March 16 2013 10:11 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 10:02 ThaReckoning wrote:On March 16 2013 06:45 ThaReckoning wrote:On March 16 2013 05:45 Xaeldaren wrote:Can someone give me some tips on how to improve based on this game? I was trying out a safe Gate/Robo/Gate expand and eventually just got owned by a 2 base Thor/Hellbat/Banshee/Raven all-in. I think a lot of it was due to indecision and poor decision making on my part, but I'd love any input people could give me. http://drop.sc/310544 Honestly when I send an observer into a terran base and see stuff like that, I abandon the ground game completely. Most of the time I cancel one of my forges, and get chargelot/archon/dt while I run screaming toward skytoss. The first few trades you make will be something like chargelot/immortal/archon/void/ht adding more stargates as you get a third and 4th. Eventually you just get mass void/tempest/phoenix and roll him over that way, phasing out the ground game completely. Mineral dump is cannons, and keep his base count in check with constant DT/zealot counterattacks from the 4-5 gates you have. If you let it get off the ground you're in trouble, so play really safe against that kind of stuff. Well I'd like to take this back. This idea used to work in WoL, but that was before widow mines. You can't even engage mech with an air army anymore, so this is another issue I have to figure out. All these new t/z units don't seem to have any counters that I can think of, it's really disheartening. Yeah, it's bothersome. I guess all-ins every single game are the only way to play. Maybe Immortal/Sentry + MSC for time bomb vs. Zerg, and 4 gate robo immortal bust with an observer vs Terran?
Yeah, it's getting to that point with me too. I've been trying and trying and trying and trying and trying, but I can't seem to find anything that works. Colossi get yanked, t2 brood lords kill everything for free. If even one unit gets unloaded from a medivac in a game it's incredibly hard to undo the damage it does. I don't see how we're supposed to compete with this. Hell even mech is unstoppable with the new firebats and cloaked reavers.
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On March 16 2013 10:29 aznheat80 wrote:
Huk's response to widow mine drops was to build a cannon in his main and natural mineral line. Innovation didn't do any damage with his opening.
In the game I played at least, the drop came in my base at 7:15 game time. My observer, which was built from a 1gate -> robo opening, got to his base around 7 minutes - so there wouldn't even be time to see it and react.
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So I just ran into a build (PvP) and I have no idea how to stop it. 4gate MSC blink all-in...
Maybe dt?
or going blink and not expanding myself?
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If you had gone stargate would you not be able to just snipe the MSC and then his blink is dead?
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EPT
