EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 78
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:18 3LILpigs wrote: hey guys happy new starcraft season, im currently lost in pvt, i use to have a 65% win rate for the match up and now its down to 47%.It has something to do with my reliance to MVPtails dt drop build, it has currently become very predictable. Can you guys suggest a safer standard build that involves a mothership core expand because personally i love early 2 gas builds =). hope you guys can include a replay so i can see timings probe cuts and stuff thanks. Dont have replays but if you want safe solid PvT builds you can play like creator or rain (if you have GSL pass you can see everything you need in the vods) For example one game creator won vs bomber he went for zealot sentry, no scout, mothership core, expand, halt probe production to get Robo asap, pylon, more sentries, add 2nd and 3rd gate, stalker when warpgate is done (so you have MSC, 1 zealot, 3 sentries, 1 stalker), shortly before obs is out send out hallucination (I think so you know if you need to have obs stay at home vs widow mines), take 3rd and 4th gas at appropriate time, robo bay, double forge. Then you can either go properly for colossus or do the 1 unranged colossus and go for HTs, take 3rd when you think youre safe. Ive played like this since I saw the gsl games, sometimes I go for stalker MSC harass instead of zealot sentry if I feel like it. But like I hinted, I might try Partings opening on Daybreak vs Flash, if possible I would like to go HT first. | ||
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jwe
Sweden24 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:18 3LILpigs wrote: hey guys happy new starcraft season, im currently lost in pvt, i use to have a 65% win rate for the match up and now its down to 47%.It has something to do with my reliance to MVPtails dt drop build, it has currently become very predictable. Can you guys suggest a safer standard build that involves a mothership core expand because personally i love early 2 gas builds =). hope you guys can include a replay so i can see timings probe cuts and stuff thanks. I was 75% last season, and this season 67% in Master. I usually do Tails DT-drop with fast collosus behind (you put down the bay at the same moment you drop). It's important to do damage, so don't drop the DT's in the mineral, let them walk for 6-7 seconds instead towards the minerals because 1) it's easy to spot the prism and it gives the Terran 2-3s extra reactiontime, 2) you can still warpin from the Prism that is hidden if you see the oppertunity and 3) if he have a turret in mineralline it's easy to go to another place and snipe techlabs, units, make him waste oc-energy instead of getting MULE's etc.. If you doing Tail's build you need to be absolutely on top of your microing, just because he has a turret doesn't mean you behind. And then you go fast collosus behind, get chargelots and archons and push. If you want to try another build, you can always go Proxy Oracles (that's an all-in tho..), Sated's 3 Immortal 2-base Bust (also kindof allinish), regular WoL-style (13 Gate, 17 Core, Nexus and then Robo + 2 Gates or vice verca depending on scoutinformation), 7.30 double forge, upgrades, charge/blink whatever you prefer and go up to 3 collosus and push. First week of HoTS I did this build, but I don't do it anymore because I feel I have better/funnier options, but it's not that bad. It let you decide how to transition after a push. 9 Pylon 13 Gate 14 Gas {16 Pylon 17 Core #20 Cut probes 20 Stalker 22 Warpgate research 22 Nexus 22 Resume Probes #Add 2 gates when you can afford. Push with 5 Stalkers or 4 Stalkers and a MSC. If DT behind, 3 Stalker poke to scout and just make him focus on your attack instead of macro etc. If he is to greedy, warp in more Stalkers/Zealots and go win. Transitions: #DT 2nd gas after gate 3 + Twilight #Phoenix 2nd Gas after push #Robo 2nd Gas after push FYI, I am a low Master and sometimes I'm wrong aswell, but this is atleast my answer. My winrates talks for them selfes in PvT  GL! | ||
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3LILpigs
Philippines16 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On May 03 2013 12:18 3LILpigs wrote: Thanks guys, im stuck in high diamond for like eternity i beat a few masters here and there but i hit this wall whenever i face higher competition. Gives the phrase "diamonds are forever" a whole new meaning huh. =) Lets dance in style, lets dance for a while. Your core builds will be the same, all you have to do is make substitutions. When you do dt shuttle drop, never expect it to win you the game, you will always need to transition into your next card. If you suspect your opponent knows about the dts, then you can transition sooner, or use the dts for drop defense / early archons. I occasionally open dark templar in pvz and most zergs will put the spores down anyway because it prevents both air and dark templar harass. I am aware of it, but it is a decision that I make because the dark templar potential is worth the investment, its role has a use at all stages of the game. The game will always fight to get you at a 50/50 win loss ratio, and there is always more to improve on, so do not feel like you have hit a wall. 9-Pylon 13-Gate 15-Gas x2 16-Pylon 18-Cyber (No scout at all, rally the 2nd work after cyber to natural) 20-Nexus 20-Mothership 22-warpgate 22-Pylon (resume probe production) 22-Sentry (Scout with hallucinated pheonix) | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:24 Salivanth wrote: My opponents basically always go for 3-Gate Stargate play in PvP. With this in mind, what's the best non-all-in build against 3-Gate Stargate that doesn't just straight-up die to other things? A build that doesn't rely on attacking the SG-ing player would be ideal. Your own 3 gate SG with phoenixes I spose. I'm curious about the same thing though, would like a good answer from someone better than me as well :D | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
I have been having a bit of success just going for storm/immortal/archon over any type of colossi/stalker composition that would normally be used in the midgame. Once you have storm/immortal you can effectively destroy a maxed out ultra/ling composition pretty well, although after each fight you'll have no zealot/stalker leftover and I find I have to run away, regroup and push again - but each battle is cost efficient for me. Some trouble I am still having:
Anyone else have decent experiences thus far? | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:24 Salivanth wrote: My opponents basically always go for 3-Gate Stargate play in PvP. With this in mind, what's the best non-all-in build against 3-Gate Stargate that doesn't just straight-up die to other things? A build that doesn't rely on attacking the SG-ing player would be ideal. DT expand i guess. @salv: the thing that sucks about skipping colossi is swarm hosts. Other than that yeah on paper it sounds good, but i haven't figured out if you can go reactively into that kind of play or if you need to blind counter it with zealot/archon/immortal storm from the start. | ||
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jwe
Sweden24 Posts
On May 03 2013 19:04 DarkLordOlli wrote: Your own 3 gate SG with phoenixes I spose. I'm curious about the same thing though, would like a good answer from someone better than me as well :D Fast expansion works pretty well against phoenix. Get a fast MSC aswell for defense against a potential 3-gate push. Then you can go twilight for blink/charge and HT/DT (whatever you prefer) and then merge them to archons. Storm/Archon/Chargelots with some Stalkers behind works pretty well against skytoss! Be aware of the Oracles. Usually your oppo attack the front and then you miss the 1 Oracle that kills 20 probes in your main... It's also really important to keep your MSC alive, and sometimes that can be hard against Phoneix's. 1 Stalker left behind in mineral doesn't kill the Oracle, but atleast it buys you time. And if you can afford, have 2 behind. If you scout an 4-gate or DT-rush, don't expand to fast. There are some more or the less safe 4 mins expands against 4-gate, but if you never done it before or play at a high level I don't recommend. it. I tried it both HerO-style and some other styles, but I still lose against a 4-gate. I say as I always do, I'm just low master and some can probably give you a better answer, but this works for me atleast pretty well. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On May 03 2013 21:18 Sated wrote: I actually think Chargelot/Archon/Immortal is actually the best PvZ composition and I have done for a long time. The only thing in the Zerg arsenal that it has a problem with is Hydralisks, and they're obviously not a problem once you throw Storms into the mix. The only time this style looks bad is if there is a sudden Mutalisk switch, because it can be really hard to defend your bases without the mobility of Blink Stalkers, but Mutalisk switches seem to be pretty effective against pretty much anything that doesn't have Stargates ready to boost out Phoenixes T_T Swarm hosts destroy anything without colossi. It's annoying as hell how that unit single handedly makes templar so much worse in the matchup T_T | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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jwe
Sweden24 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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NaldoR
Singapore2198 Posts
I have an okay win rate in PvT and PvP. My PvT is about 60% However, i am very bad vs Hellbat/mech compositions. Especially 2 base all ins. In PvZ i have completely no idea what to do. I think in order to progress I have to relearn both PvT and PvP Can Someone please show me a safe buildorder for PvT and PvP or maybe an all in for both match ups too. If replays could be provided it would be good. Also, how do you deal with Swarm Host/Corruptor or Swarm Host in general. I need help in that. Thanks in advance if someone could help or point me in the right direction. User was warned for this post | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
On May 03 2013 21:14 Teoita wrote: DT expand i guess. @salv: the thing that sucks about skipping colossi is swarm hosts. Other than that yeah on paper it sounds good, but i haven't figured out if you can go reactively into that kind of play or if you need to blind counter it with zealot/archon/immortal storm from the start. Right, but the one thing I have been counting on thus far is that this ultralisk build gets a third base around 6:00 - 7:00 minutes - no other build does that as far as I know, so for them to open like that and then go swarm host even though they opened with a lot of lings seems odd. I really have no problem scouting this build anymore, the first time I saw it I was like, OK no third, added cannons. OK no frontal aggression yet (baneling bust) so maybe it's swarm host? Or mutalisk? I scouted and saw an infestation pit and I started double robo colossus, yet it was just for the hive so by 16:00 minutes I had like a pile of stalkers/collossi - which really sucks versus the ling ultra. Whenever I don't scout a third now, I give it some more time to see if they'll expand late, the second they do, especially one I see speed I am assuming it's this build. I've played a few people who added infestors to deal with a pre-ultra timing, and I've played a couple people who even made a couple roaches to try and confuse me, but there's no reason to open that late of a third unless you're doing this build AFAIK. I really think warp prism with mass zealot warp-in would possibly wreck this build. They'll have speed zerglings with 1-1 when you have 0-0-1, but I think if you warped in to a mineral line I don't see how they cost-efficiently deal with your zealots without losing a ton of lings and forced to stop mining. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
1) Identifying it in time and getting immortals to hold the first push. Going over 3 colossi is most definitely dangerous, and i'm not sure about 3. The colossi are really really nice vs all the lings he will have; it's the ultra+ling combo that's scary not just one of the two. 2) Not overmaking stalkers. This is KEY. Stalkers are god awful vs ultra ling. Cut them ASAP. 3) Not sure about this, but, upgrades. Ultra/ling will always be miles ahead in ups compared to your average single forge, stargate/robo/third build. I wonder wether a second forge makes sense, and if s when. 4) After you hold the first push, add templar/storm. I think you might not have enough stuff to defend if you are being too greedy with your tech. | ||
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