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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
On April 04 2013 08:55 MrUnderstood wrote:
I'm having a ton of trouble against mass mutas now in pvz. I used to feel a little bit more confident using blink stalkers and just attacking them straight up in WoL (I took about a year break but was masters before). Seems like my stalker ball is getting completely destroyed in a straight up battle with mutas. Is this just Zerg players getting better over time or was there some fundamental change to the units I missed? Seems like mass Phoenix is the only way to really combat mass muta now. Is this correct? I know Phoenix out range and are faster than mutas but I think it's a little unrealistic to think anyone has the time to micro THAT intensely to kill the mutas while severely out numbered. Your macro would go to hell pretty much.
I guess my main question is: is the only answer to mass muta double or triple stargate Phoenix?
I definately believe so. If you scout muta prior to him moving out with them i'd say it's your game to lose, that is if u go early stargate 4 phoenix. Throw down 1 or two stargate's and that upgrade lab (can't remember name), as the +2 range is extremely crucial, goes from being extremely hard to being easy. Don't overmake, u want less phoenix than his mutas, if u see him swapping tech stop immediately. I just tend to kill overlords after im done with mutas, and im in a huge lead aswell. Storm and blink stalker was bad and hard enough in wol, now i'd say it's pretty useless.
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On April 04 2013 09:36 ffadicted wrote:
Masters player here, don't mean to be elitist but I'm asking really specific stuff so I'd appreciate someone better/around same level than me that has succcess with this answering ^^ I'm having a ton of trouble with drops in PvT, so I've decided to try stargate openings with phoenix for map control, but it feels REALLY weak early on, I'm talking really weak... feel like I could die to anything lol. TL please help me:
I generally like to open 2 gas 1 gate FE, with two stalkers and a mothership core before the expansion. After the expo I typically chrono out 5 phoenixes while going up to 3 gates, and stop phoenix production there. I use the phoenixes for map control and drop control, while trying to transition to colossi. The problem is that, like I said before, I feel any stim timing or stuff like that could kill me. I don't have the money to get more than 3 gates really, and I'm not really sure when to take my 2 gases at the natural after expanding. How many phoenixes do you usually get for builds like this? And should I chrono out an oracle before the phoenixes for harrass all the time? How do you deal with 8-12 minute pushes before colossi can come out? How do you power up and transition from there? I can't seem to fit forge upgrades anywhere in this build, and I'm going zealot heavy since it's gas incentive, so armor upgrades are a must but I just can't seem to get them in there.
Any help?
I've experimented with phoenix play to deny drops, but when I do it, I do it a bit differently than what you are describing. The most painful drops are the ones that come once you're spread out on the map or you want to move out. When you're just macroing off of two bases in PvT, you can manage drops via army control without having to allocate minerals/gas to counter them. So what I do if I want to get phoenixes out, is I get them out later on, around when I want to take a third or start showing map presence. That way you can safely move out and your phoenixes will just kill any drop if they try to backstab you. Also, your phoenixes are good in big clashes too, because they will get vikings to counter your collosi, and your phoenixes can be used to help your collosus survivability. You can also run down medivacs with them. I usually don't get more than about 5 phoenixes though. 5 is plenty to serve their purpose.
However, I lately don't bother with getting out phoenixes. If you're confident in your play, you can deal with the drops with blink stalkers and good cannon placement, but obviously the phoenix play is good if you want to complete shut it down.
So in summary, delay your phoenixes to later on so they don't cut into your core build. You need your upgrades/collosi but it doesn't hurt to add in phoenixes after you have that production going.
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What am i supposed to do against terran how am i meant to beat them and survive drops? i always get weakened by drops and when i drop them with zealots it's nearly useless.
Basically even when we both macro up he can always go ahead and kill my bases yet when i move out to kill his he stims and my alleged "quality > quantity" army gets killed in seconds, honestly it feels like protoss units are made of paper passed the 10 minute mark. It's always the same thing every game, he drops and does infinitely more damage than my drops that do next to nothing. I don;t want to be a typical turtle up protoss but i am forced to because if i attack before max/4base i lose army to the units my army is meant to be the counter to.
Here's a replay just then, basically i go 1 gate expand into 3 gate robo with +1 armor and warp prism chargelot. I get armour first cause its better for zealots. and he does mmm as usual, i was opening zealot sentry but thing is whenever i get sntries in PvT i can never catch up to his army to forcefield so zealots always get kited, that's also a pain in the arse.
When he sniped my third, i thought he would know tha i had my army there so he would go for my natural so in knowing this i went to my natural ramp and he got my third.
I never flooded minerals except when i pretty much just gave up because he was unbreakable. I only got to diamond yesterday and ever since then i've had trouble with terran, im great against zerg and protoss but terran...i loathe terran. If anyone able to play terran diamond and above wants to help me ingame you can message me whenever im KingOfChairs code 950
here's replay. http://drop.sc/317736
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Italy12246 Posts
OP updated. From now on asking questions already in there will result in moderation like in WoL.
Enjoy 
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Okay, so how do I not lose vs en early pool build on a 4 player map?
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Italy12246 Posts
By double scouting at 9 and 13 if you want to be super safe.
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I was wondering how do you defeat a Zerg that has trapped you on 2 bases spamming Swarm Hosts and Queens. He also has a couple spores. I went air but even using tempests and void rays I could not dislodge the Zerg so I lost. By the time I was making progress the Zerg came in with Brood Lord/Corruptor and destroyed me.
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Italy12246 Posts
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On April 05 2013 04:39 Teoita wrote:
It's in the op
Wow that op is amazing now.
For lategame pvp, should I get carriers or tempests as skytoss? Or is it just better to stick with the voidrays and spread against storms?
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Italy12246 Posts
I'm honestly not sure, none really knows yet. On paper they both sound quite useful though, since they will both do better vs storm than voids do. On the other hand, they are also weak to void rays so it might be a situation like tvt when you can switch to them only if you have air dominance.
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On April 05 2013 04:49 SharkBait wrote:Wow that op is amazing now. For lategame pvp, should I get carriers or tempests as skytoss? Or is it just better to stick with the voidrays and spread against storms?
Believe me, stay with voids and spread.
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Italy12246 Posts
By the way, just to reiterate this thread's guidelines:
- Anyone is allowed to answer. Try to backup your statements with pro game examples whenever possible. However, if you assert something wildly wrong, especially without enough support, you will be warned/banned. If you are unsure of the validity of an idea, just ask a question instead.
- In general this thread is here to help bridge the gap between proven pro level strategies/ideas and the average player, not for you to give your opinion (unless it has very sufficient grounding from pro game evidence).
- Don't ask the same questions that are in the OP.
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On April 05 2013 03:01 Depeche Mode wrote:
Okay, so how do I not lose vs en early pool build on a 4 player map? The easy way to remember is to send your probe that you built the first pylon with to scout and then if it hasn't scouted them by the time you get to 13, you send the probe that builds your forge in the opposite direction so the last 2 bases will be scouted at roughly the same time.
I have been massively underestimating the mothership core. I have started trying sending it against Terran. It will almost always do some type of damage, be it kill a few SCVs, or at worst you can throw down a timewarp in their mineral line and slow them down economically. It seems quite effective. I also thought of a more sinister way of using it by combining it with a 4gate but I haven't tried that yet. The idea would be to draw their marines into their base to deal with the core and then hit them at the front with a 4gate. Haven't tried it. It is probably as gimmicky as you can get but against someone cutting corners it might work pretty well. I will try it next time I play against a Terran who does a greedy opening.
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Lately I've been doing Void Ray all-ins versus Terrans, but my build seems unrefined. Here is a replay: http://drop.sc/317935.
Could someone please look over my build and help me refine it? I also tried searching for some guides, but they were all outdated.
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On April 05 2013 07:40 Kinon wrote:Lately I've been doing Void Ray all-ins versus Terrans, but my build seems unrefined. Here is a replay: http://drop.sc/317935. Could someone please look over my build and help me refine it? I also tried searching for some guides, but they were all outdated.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406068
Pulled that from the front page of strategy forum. It has a PvT 3gate + void ray all in.
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This thread's OP just became absolutely amazing! Thanks so much for all the effort compiling it, it will really help when I'm having specific problems.
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How do you counter hydra/bit of roach swarmhost agreesion? I can stop a early push with high templars even though is not very practical, but when the zerg reaches about over 10 swarmhosts, my land army is too busy clearing out waves of locusts while my VR/few carriers is too busy cleaning out the hydras. It seems that I need a good amount of carriers/tempests in order to break this build, however I just can't seem to get the right amount when the zerg pushes.
Oracles seems like a good choice, anyone has help or suggestions? (PS. Iam defending the push with around 3-4 bases.)
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EPT
