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On June 18 2015 04:32 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 04:23 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Sounds like your issue is that you're playing too defensively against it. The power of 3-base blink vs muta is that you'll be in the zerg's face constantly, so if they make mutas it has to be while you're pressuring. In that case you can usually straight up kill them. Or they skip mutas to make units in order to deal with that pressure and then... you don't have to worry about mutas. Usually I'm leaving my base as he's leaving his with the Muta. In that scenario I just can't win. Should I be moving out earlier?
you really should post a replay. Though it does sound like you are not being agressive enough or you move out too late.
Anyhow, usually one does a pre blink poke to interrupt/punish heavy droning, followed up by the real push between 11:30 and 12:30. On from this time you should be constantly attacking and or using a WP to harass. This way, the zerg needs to stay on his side of the map and fight you (instead of growing his muta flock to the point at which your mineral lines get insta killed).
Keep in mind that with a 3 base blink build you should be able to constantly hallu scout the zerg on from the time when you put down your 3rd base! Thus, the mutas should never surprise you. Still, even then should 1 or 2 rounds of warp-ins repell the mutas. If not, you can recall, leave enough stalkers at home to defend and march back to his side of the map with the rest of your army. Admittedly, this is not optimal but since muta/ling can't fight sentry/bstalker with +2 for ages, you end up just fine more often than not.
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PvP:
In a basic Colossus wars macro game, when should you add on the 2nd Robo?
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On 2 bases/4 gases, if you scout your opponent is going for a long macro game too, I think you can go 2nd robo before charge and templar archives, as soon as you have the gas for it (you should be only spending gas on colossi and forge upgrades at this point).
Having charge and templar archives so early is not that important if you think he is going macro on 3 bases, that's because unlike with colossi the limiting factor on the archon count is simply how much gas you have, and charge isn't useful until you have to engage.
So an earlier 2nd robo means you'll always have a better army, as long as you don't die to an early attack but that's up to your scouting.
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On June 20 2015 12:39 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
PvP:
In a basic Colossus wars macro game, when should you add on the 2nd Robo?
As soon as you realize it's colossus wars. If you've scouted he's on robo tech and he's expanded, and you have at least 2 sentries, then get a 2nd robo, and you should be aiming for constant colossus production.
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On June 20 2015 12:39 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
PvP:
In a basic Colossus wars macro game, when should you add on the 2nd Robo?
"Only make 2nd robo after establishing your 3rd."
-Stardust
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On June 20 2015 12:39 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
PvP:
In a basic Colossus wars macro game, when should you add on the 2nd Robo?
A little after you have established your third base, and are confident you can hold it against a push from your opponent. It is a bit of a feel thing that develops as you play and get a sense of the timing, but watching pro PvP's can help.
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PvZ - how do you deal with a zerg taking gold bases? There is no way for a Protoss player to ever quick expand to a gold base, I don't know why maps still have something like this in where its a clear disadvantage to one race...
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On June 26 2015 00:53 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
PvZ - how do you deal with a zerg taking gold bases? There is no way for a Protoss player to ever quick expand to a gold base, I don't know why maps still have something like this in where its a clear disadvantage to one race...
Literally to disadvantage that race 
without them both Vaani and expo lost would favor toss (macro for the first one and all ins for the other).
You can punish it (sort of) by going forge first and intending to cannon rush it's very difficult to block a good cannon rusher since the bases are so far away. If you can't cannon rush tho your best option is to play safe and turtle up into hyper late game army (boring option ).
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On June 26 2015 00:59 HellHound wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 00:53 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
PvZ - how do you deal with a zerg taking gold bases? There is no way for a Protoss player to ever quick expand to a gold base, I don't know why maps still have something like this in where its a clear disadvantage to one race... Literally to disadvantage that race without them both Vaani and expo lost would favor toss (macro for the first one and all ins for the other). You can punish it (sort of) by going forge first and intending to cannon rush it's very difficult to block a good cannon rusher since the bases are so far away. If you can't cannon rush tho your best option is to play safe and turtle up into hyper late game army (boring option ).
I always lose when I try to macro/turtle up (since they always have the advantage in macro)
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Depends on your opening.
If you open forge, then you're forced to cannon rush it, even though you will still be slightly behind. If you open gate, then go 4 gate.
On Vaani I think you can just macro like in a normal game. Gold bases are only effective before you reach 3 base saturation, because a saturated gold base yields the same income as a saturated normal base. Past that point, the zerg player loses his advantage.
The problem on expedition lost is that the gold is in the middle so you have creep surrounding all your bases which is extremely annoying. So I would say that going for a quick all in is the best option.
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Hello
New season but my pvp still sucks a lot 
I'v tried lots of opening, and the more stable for me, is phoenix one: but i loose everytime in mid/late game.
After watching replays, is usually fail at macro: i take a late 2nd or 3rd, because i'm really scared of enemy aggressivity. Other time i take a too fast 2nd and i loose from all-in because I had less units. Other times I have way more units, better upgrades, but I fail the engange (fe I dont' split colossus).
I usually open 1 gate stargate, then oracle or straight phoenix. I keep pressure the enemy while build a robo and start doing some immortals. Until my first few immortals I usually manage to do damage or to defend myself (so i take no disadvange).
Since lots of problems are on decision making, I would like some tips on a simple and well rounded follow-up: I was thinking about skytoss. Robo is totally necessary for obs and immortals at start if they push or all in, but when we enter in late game, is skytoss worth in PvP?
What kind of comp should I aim for? Voids+Carriers? Tempest only if he goes air too?
Should I have some gate units too? Chargelots to sink minerals??
What kind of harass could I do while mass air? Prism with zealots?
Any other player here is playng skytoss PvP with success?
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Robo is not necessary when playing phoenixes. If you are sure that your opponent is going stargate himself or robo, you can delay the robo until after you've expanded.
It's really hard to make something happen in 2 base vs 2 base PvP, so in general if you are ahead/behind in the early game, it will stay the same way until one of the players decides to take a third. Third bases are much harder to defend in PvP so that opens up aggressive options once more. So, I don't understand how you can be even after the early game, and get behind in the following minutes. Overcharge and a healthy immortal count should make you totally safe against anything. Seeing a replay would be helpful.
Skytoss is really bad in PvP, I haven't faced it even once in the last several months. The reason behind it is that it's impossible to hold certain 3 base blink /archon timings. It's one of those strategies which are strong in low leagues, but get weaker and weaker as the players' skill increases.
I have played skytoss sometimes, can't say I had success, but I enjoyed the games I won. You need to start with void rays (after any phoenixes/oracle), or you will die to blink stalkers. On the other hand archons and later on storms are a hard counter to void rays, so you have to switch to carriers at that point. But you're still extremely vulnerable to any attack until you have >6 carriers + void rays , and you have to play purely defensive until you have >180 supply. Also you have to worry about tempests switches, since tempests counter all protoss air. Your opponent should always be able to out expand you and win thanks to their superior economy, even if they don't commit to an attack.
If you want to make it work, the best advice I can give you is to deny scouting. The more money your opponent spends into robo units, the lower his attacking capability. So you should focus on eliminating sentries with your phoenixes in the early game, and hide your void rays in the corner of your base. If you can't kill the sentries, patrol your phoenixes around your base to prevent the hallucinations from coming in.
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New season, new maps.
What do you guys veto?
Dash and terminal seems like a really wierd map and not very good for protoss. What about the others? I think Terraform looks alright, very choky which is nice.
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On June 30 2015 17:58 Lazermonkey wrote:
New season, new maps.
What do you guys veto?
Dash and terminal seems like a really wierd map and not very good for protoss. What about the others? I think Terraform looks alright, very choky which is nice.
I'd say Dash and Terminal is actually pretty playable compared to the rest if you gate expand because the thin corridor leading to your natural can be blocked by one 3x3 building and the normal entrance by 2 buildings + a pylon, so that overall it's quite standard.
As for the rest... Bridgehead seems unplayable due to the rocks that you can't really defend (no ramp, sight blockers that hugely favor Z and T which have overlords and medivacs to be able to kill it while a defensive cannon would not even be able to shoot at them). Moonlight Madness is crazy but I'm willing to give this map a chance. Terraform should be pretty good for P.
So overall, I'll go for Coda - Terraform - Dash & Terminal - Moonlight Madness.
If you're not like me and don't mind 4 players maps (3 spawns 4 players maps are just retarded, they shouldn't even exist), play Cactus Valley instead of one of the two last maps. It's a good P map. I wouldn't recommend Iron Fortress.
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So I found out 2 useful things about the new maps.
1. Dash and Terminal backdoor wall off vs zerg:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zCdRqkm.png)
2. You can completely prevent the reaper from entering your base with this wall off on Bridgehead. That allows you to go nexus first completely safely against terran (except for proxies ofc). You can also break the debris whenever you want to get out of your base, so you will never need to destroy your own buildings.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2bUo2M3.png)
Fun fact: the reaper can jump off the cliff through the bush beside the rocks, but it can't jump up.
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I had found out the first tip (Dash & Terminal) but the second one is really interesting. Thanks !
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I didn't notice that, it's weird because if you look at the building grid there's a corner where you should slip in but you actually don't.
That being said against 15 pool I'd rather have the core down than the pylon, since the core is much harder to kill.
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anyone know how to counter tank widow mine hellion/hellbat?
it's retarded imo. mass air loses to widow mines, and enough tanks kills anything on the ground. and turtling with 20 turrets around base = can't abuse mobility....
any suggestions?
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Hey Everyone its been a long time since I have played sc2 and I just bought the expansion, I have no familiarity with the current meta at the moment and I was wondering if you could post a solid build order for the 3 matchups, preferably something safer that leads into the mid/late game. I was never an amazing player High Plat-Diamond level so please keep in mind i still need to work on my mechanics to get them up to par to what they use to be, at any rate thanks for the build orders <3! and goodluck laddering! =D
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EeiJxZi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gCs9U7p.jpg)
