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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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dchaudh
58 Posts
a (very recently promoted) silver player here with a basic build order related question. in PvT, i am using this blink/colossus build: http://imbabuilds.com/hots-protoss/hots-pvt/pvt-harstems-blinkcolossus-build/. given this build doesn't scout opponent until we get observers, are we vulnerable to proxy 2 rax? or should the mothership core be out by the time the first proxy 2-rax wave hits our base? | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
I recommend always scouting at 13 (after your gateway) on 2 player maps. A reaper won't be out in time to deny the scout and most of the time there won't be a full wall. That means you get to check their gas and narrow down their possible builds. That very same scout will tell you whether they're doing a proxy rax or not. | ||
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dchaudh
58 Posts
On May 05 2015 02:21 DarkLordOlli wrote: Regular gateway expand is definitely vulnerable to proxy 2rax, especially if you don't make the initial zealot (or if you cancel it). The MSC is absolutely not out in time. In fact, if you expand without the zealot and then get the msc and stalker, you've pretty much already lost the game. You need to make a zealot, let it finish, pull probes to kill the initial bunker if possible (or delay it at least) and then chrono out msc and stalker asap. Don't even think about taking a natural nexus. I recommend always scouting at 13 (after your gateway) on 2 player maps. A reaper won't yet be out in time to deny the scout and most of the time there won't be a full wall. That means you get to check their gas and narrow down their possible builds. That very same scout will tell you whether they're doing a proxy rax or not. okay, tyvm! do you know off the top of your head what the typical timing is for proxy 2-rax to hit? e.g., depending on when opponent chooses to push, is it reasonable to assume a timing window of 3-4 marines @ 3:30 to 10-15 marines @ 4:30-5:00? i tried to look up builds and deduce times but not sure if i did it correctly. | ||
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Laggman
France8 Posts
What I understand so far is that if zerg stays on 2 bases, i don't need to do a pressure on 4G. If he goes for a 3rd base, i'll punish him with my pressure. But the points I miss are : 1/ If I gate expand, do what can I do apart from 4G follow up ? (is robo or stargate possible ?) 2/ What's the follow up after I put expand and 4G ? 1 tech building + forge ? or more gates ? or 3rd expand ? 3/ If the zerg stays on 2 bases, should i take a 3rd too when he does or should i stay on 2 bases and go for HT or Colossus ? 5/ When do I stop to pressure the zerg if he takes a 3rd ? When i kill his 3rd ? Or should i push further ? | ||
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States765 Posts
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BadMagic420
Canada7 Posts
On May 05 2015 06:41 Laggman wrote: Hi mates, i'm trying to learn the 1gate expand in PvZ and I'm far from really understanding the match up with that opener. So I need some help. What I understand so far is that if zerg stays on 2 bases, i don't need to do a pressure on 4G. If he goes for a 3rd base, i'll punish him with my pressure. But the points I miss are : 1/ If I gate expand, do what can I do apart from 4G follow up ? (is robo or stargate possible ?) 2/ What's the follow up after I put expand and 4G ? 1 tech building + forge ? or more gates ? or 3rd expand ? 3/ If the zerg stays on 2 bases, should i take a 3rd too when he does or should i stay on 2 bases and go for HT or Colossus ? 5/ When do I stop to pressure the zerg if he takes a 3rd ? When i kill his 3rd ? Or should i push further ? Hey there. I'll link you two replays from my favourite PvZ series. Rain vs Soulkey Hot6ix Grand finals Game 1 & 2 21:30 is the game start 6:00 is the game start The gateway scout on 13 can also fake out a cannon rush. (Possibly get 5+ drones pulled) You can go pylon gate pylon if you scout >14pool and add gas(es) depending on tech. Second question. Pick your poison, if he floods lings. You can get forge for +1 attack or stargate for oracle(s) and transition from there. Normally with 4G you want to force as many units as possible or they die. Another example - If he floods mass roach, you 'should' add a robo + forge + sentries so you can transition from there. Adding a twilight before that.. I would say that is a no. Your third question. "HT or Colossus". You can make colossus + stalkers vs roach/hydra/corruptor while warp prism fly's around + zealot runbys. You obviously make immortals + high templars vs vipers/roach/hydra. | ||
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shizznit
23 Posts
On May 04 2015 08:56 shizznit wrote: How do you properly open phoenix in pvp? I've seen a guy open stargate, warpgate, stalker, gate, then expo once he saw I also went phoenix I've been going msc, stalker, stargate, warpgate, then adding 2 gates when I can ( just winging it really i'm new to opening with phoenix ) can someone give me the ins and outs, a quick rundown on this style of play as I enjoy the fuark out of using phoenix nobody loves me? | ||
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BadMagic420
Canada7 Posts
On May 05 2015 08:31 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: Got an upgrades question. When is it better to get armor or shield upgrades before attack? I think this is only preferred in PvT? Zealots and Colossus have more health than shields so you'll want armor. It is preferred in PvT. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
I'd like to see someone give this a go, too. | ||
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BadMagic420
Canada7 Posts
Well... This is what I do, I am sure there is some room for improvements. 12 gate, scout for proxies then go straight to his main to see his tech (ten gate, missing pylon(s), gas timings). You add your first gas as soon as you can afford it, then second gas, cybercore + pylon. (Save all chrono after cybercore is planted, the moment you place your cybercore, save all your chronoboosts). Second pylon after cybercore. Stargate (make sure your buildings are nice and neat and not powered by 1 pylon). MSC, Stalker, Warpgate. When SG finishes you should have 6 on gas, 14 on minerals. You will have about 80 chronoboosts when your stargate is done. The stalker + MSC is to scout around your area for hidden pylons/units while your three phoenix goes straight into main of the protoss. With your first phoenix arriving you should check his unit count, gas count, buildings. YOU MUST MUST MUST MUST (seriously, it's game over if you don't figure out his tech). If it's 3 or 4 gate blink, STOP at 3 phoenix, add voidrays, more zealots and gates. Make sure your 3 phoenix have energy for 3 lifts if there is any fight that happens. For the tricky part... Proxy twilight and/or Darkshrine... Obviously you'll want an oracle for DT's, no way you can have your robo up in time + obs if he goes straight to DT's. At any point you can kill the MSC that is huge. I'd warp in one sentry for your ramp. Make sure your little friend is hot keyed and get ready to plant a perfect FF if an attack (or dt's) walk up your ramp. For Phoenix vs Phoenix war, keep making probes and all chrono on your phoenix, some players like to go double stargate or even triple stargate off 2 base. I personally choose fleet beacon for range and *FINGERS CROSSED* he does not show up with more phoenix and kills all of mine under Photon overcharge. | ||
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shizznit
23 Posts
you go up to 3 gates? I normally check his stalker count to see what tech route he's going if I dont figure it out with the phoenix.. if there's only a few units and low chrono then it's almost certainly dts | ||
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BadMagic420
Canada7 Posts
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
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Harstem
Netherlands263 Posts
On May 05 2015 02:13 dchaudh wrote: hi protoss friends, a (very recently promoted) silver player here with a basic build order related question. in PvT, i am using this blink/colossus build: http://imbabuilds.com/hots-protoss/hots-pvt/pvt-harstems-blinkcolossus-build/. given this build doesn't scout opponent until we get observers, are we vulnerable to proxy 2 rax? or should the mothership core be out by the time the first proxy 2-rax wave hits our base? Hey, if you scout after gateway with a probe you can see what kind of opening the terran goes for, his possible openings are: -Gasless 1rax expand -Command centre first -12 barracks 12 gas - gas first -15 gas -proxy reaper -proxy 11/11 With this initial information you should be able to hold off everything until your observers are out! | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
On May 05 2015 18:36 Daimai wrote: How do you control sentries in PvZ? If I go the standard 3 base blink stalker PvZ build, I often end up losing all my sentries after the first engagement. What do I do with them? Just keep them at the back following a stalker and not attacking? Preemptive forcefields so that you only fight a fraction of their army (less than a 1/10th) is usually how to go about it when you're doing the pushout with only sentries. If it doesn't work out, or forcefielding is impossible due to his concave, just recall really quickly. | ||
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dchaudh
58 Posts
On May 05 2015 20:21 Harstem wrote: Hey, if you scout after gateway with a probe you can see what kind of opening the terran goes for, his possible openings are: -Gasless 1rax expand -Command centre first -12 barracks 12 gas - gas first -15 gas -proxy reaper -proxy 11/11 With this initial information you should be able to hold off everything until your observers are out! awesome, very helpful to know the range of possibilities. tyvm for the answer (and for the build!) | ||
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
On May 05 2015 20:30 TokO wrote: Preemptive forcefields so that you only fight a fraction of their army (less than a 1/10th) is usually how to go about it when you're doing the pushout with only sentries. If it doesn't work out, or forcefielding is impossible due to his concave, just recall really quickly. I was thinking more when Im fighting a sizeable roach hydra force with blink stalker + sentry in the midgame, after getting my third saturated. | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
On May 06 2015 02:12 Daimai wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 05 2015 20:30 TokO wrote: Preemptive forcefields so that you only fight a fraction of their army (less than a 1/10th) is usually how to go about it when you're doing the pushout with only sentries. If it doesn't work out, or forcefielding is impossible due to his concave, just recall really quickly. I was thinking more when Im fighting a sizeable roach hydra force with blink stalker + sentry in the midgame, after getting my third saturated. I'm sorry, I misunderstood as you said first engagement. If you are playing above my level (diamond) then I apologize and have to ask for a more qualified opinion. But otherwise, what I usually do is just throw down my desired forcefields and Guardian Shield, then just focus on my blink. I usually lose them as well. I think keeping them behind is a good idea, but there is an issue that you might not hit your desirable forcefields. On the other hand, if you have them infront and them move them behind after the engagement starts, they might be blocked by stalkers that you have blinked behind, and so that at one point it might be better that they try and deal as much damage as possible. You have the problem that if you want to retreat, your stalkers will most likely blink beyond sentries and then the sentries will be chased down by the zerg units. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On May 06 2015 02:12 Daimai wrote: I was thinking more when Im fighting a sizeable roach hydra force with blink stalker + sentry in the midgame, after getting my third saturated. Usually you will lose them but if you can right after ff you should control click them and send them to the back, they will probably get stuck but as you blink micro eventually they will get there(also they wont have any aggro so they are less likely to get shot at). It isn't the most important thing though, after one battle with stalker sentry the game is usually decided. Either you crush the opponents army and continue to make stalkers and win or your army gets crushed and you continue to make stalkers to delay the inevitable x'D. Try to trap less units, and/or push away hydras while fighting roaches. If you have to take a full army vs army fight your sentries are going to die no matter what so just use extra guardian shields and forcefields than you usually would. If it isn't full army vs full army(meaning you have the option to slice it up) you shouldn't lose much, if any, at all. | ||
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OPDream
Canada77 Posts
My question is is +1 attack ->+1 armor ->+2+2 ->+3+3 a good upgrade order? I get +1 attack first because before storm I need my stalkers to defend against drops and with +1 attack you need 10 stalkers instead of 11 stalkers to one shot medivac. Then I transition to chargelot storm, so getting +1 armor makes sense to me. What do you think? Another question is after the storm transition completes, what's next? Restart colossus production? Stay on the templar tech and add more immortals and archons? Share your opinion please! | ||
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