EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 345
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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shizznit
23 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:26 shizznit wrote: he has 2 gates and I have one, yes I am also http://drop.sc/398580 can someone tell me why I always lose late game pvp, I really dont understand this matchup -dont spend chrono @19 -dont delay warpgate. you end up spending a chrono on it that you dont need to -if you get a twilight after a stalker + msc you should be expanding before the dt warp in and also you should be making more probes early on before the robo/tech. You had a lot of extra money sitting around during your build your opponent makes the mistake of overcharging the main base. In response you could make archons and stalkers/zealots and pressure the natural. Since your opponent made a warp prism you'll probably kill it tbh. -You should be making a sentry soon after the dts to start building up energy and also to ff away opponents dts -your forge is well timed, you transfer probes to the natural very late -general supply blocks -gasses at your natural should have been almost emmediately after you transferred. You end up having enough gas for the -col + lance but only because you skipped on sentries(which means you cant scout. A very big deal in pvp) -the immortal drop is very nice since you know he went dt/robo -imo you can't go double col so fast because with good mechanics your opponent can play aggressive and prevent you from -expoing while taking their own and playing from pretty far ahead in econ. However, im not sure of your level so this may or may not be something you want to try. -try to start your +2 as soon as +1 is finished. Upgrades are really important in pvp. Im glad you only got 1 forge though ^^. --Don't get 2 like your opponent. -Take your third base a lot faster. Even if you dont feel like you can hold an attack, its not too bad to let it die. You should be able to hold as soon as you start col though and identify your opponent is getting his gasses and tech. -take your gasses at your third before its finished. The main reason you get a third is for gas so start harvesting it right away. -8 gates on 3 bases. perfect. -make sure to get cannons up at your bases asap, if he drops you you're pretty fucked. Usually you want to add 1 to each base right before you take your third. If you're high gm you can skip these in certain scenarios but to play safe just grab them before the third. -You get a 2nd forge now for the shields, i wouldnt bother tbh... Just spend more chrono on the +3 to get it finished and then start the shields or armour afterwards. -you stop at 10 col and start immortals. This is pretty good compositionally. Nice job. ~20:00 your money is building up so you should add on some more production. make sure to take the gas at the fourth as soon as possible again. Its basically the only reason you're grabbing it. -send zealots around the map for vision. -Use haluc scouts more to see where his army is and where your dts can go safely ;p -you have way too many probes. ~70 to his 50. This means that he has 20 supply up on you in army. This might cause you to lose later even though you composed your army better. -there are quite a few times in this game where he starts a fight badly and you get the upper hand but you dont commit. If you had, there's a good chance you'll win. -Again, tons of money, add more production, lots more. ***BIG mistake at 31:00. Your zealots pull his army WAY out of position and you dont capitalize on it. This is your moment. You've been so patient for the last 30 minutes and you finally have a big opportunity to take the lead and snipe BOTH bases on the left but instead your army stays put. Next time you really need to capitalize on this. Remember, your zealots aren't really supposed to do any damage at this stage in the game , its all about either distracting your opponent or pulling his army out of position. -I think you should be more aggressive this game, at least poke around once you get maxed on the perfect composition. If it's your style to play passive then you should add a fleet beacon way earlier and try to get tempest out, then at least you're moving towards the perfect army. -I take back what I said about sniping his base, you do get in there after a bit of a delay and take out so nice job ^^! Still a big problem you have is too many probes. It only takes 1 fight in pvp so just sack a lot of them and bring your army supply up if you're banking a lot of money. @35minutes the big battle happens that decides the game. You basically only lose because he has more stuff. However, your positioning in the fight also played a small role, you are in a tight space whereas he has room to spread out. In addition your kiting the collossi needs a little bit of work when you're controlling them sometimes you move to quickly and although the animation starts they dont do any damage. You have to wait a little bit into the animation for them to actually fire. tldr; sack more probes to increase army supply. Try to make arcs in pvp and force your opponent to take bad engagements where you have the concave. Tech to tempests faster or be a little more aggressive with your army. Just made some quick jot notes, its a bit messy so I apologize. If anythings unclear let me know. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On May 08 2015 05:11 Tiaraju9 wrote: What's up with the korean tosses favoring storm over colossus against roach-hydra-viper lately? vipers can pull collossi. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:41 darkness wrote: Is there any smooth build for taking a third base in PvT? It seems hard for me when they drop at main base and attack third base on the ground. put cannons at one base so you dont have to worry too much about it. Then you only have 2 places to defend. One with stalkers and zealots(sometimes also a collossi or two) and the other with the rest of your army(usually the biggest clump but not always). If you're facing mine drops you'll add cannons before you take your third and if you're facing bio then you will add a few right after he should have his 2nd group of medivacs. So lets say he gets 2 medivacs at 9:30 then you should probably be starting the cannons around 10:00. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
This. Also, a muta switch is far less likely as well as less effective (since you have all that robo tech gas invested in blink stalkers and storm). Moreover, this style was kinda buffed due to the SH redesign. Before that, a SH switch could get ugly, if you had no access to colossi tech. It's simply an all-around safe build that is highly rewarding if you have good control. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Also a bit quicker to tech to, more versatile vs mutas, and it's a very natural followup to any 3base blink build. Before the swarm hosts changes you just needed colossi in the midgame, now it's perfectly fine to skip them. | ||
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the caz dog
Australia17 Posts
What's up with the korean tosses favoring storm over colossus against roach-hydra-viper lately? It's a response to the fast Viper timings that players like Life were using. If you went into an early build the relied on Colossus to hold your third, the Zerg would rush Vipers, Abduct your Colossi and roll over the rest of your army with Roach/Hydra. The Templar based play seems to have mixed success at the moment. I personally prefer Void Ray / Chargelot / Archon and am eagerly awaiting the pros using this build more since the Swarm Host nerf. | ||
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shizznit
23 Posts
On May 08 2015 05:12 -HuShang- wrote: -dont spend chrono @19 -dont delay warpgate. you end up spending a chrono on it that you dont need to -if you get a twilight after a stalker + msc you should be expanding before the dt warp in and also you should be making more probes early on before the robo/tech. You had a lot of extra money sitting around during your build your opponent makes the mistake of overcharging the main base. In response you could make archons and stalkers/zealots and pressure the natural. Since your opponent made a warp prism you'll probably kill it tbh. -You should be making a sentry soon after the dts to start building up energy and also to ff away opponents dts -your forge is well timed, you transfer probes to the natural very late -general supply blocks -gasses at your natural should have been almost emmediately after you transferred. You end up having enough gas for the -col + lance but only because you skipped on sentries(which means you cant scout. A very big deal in pvp) -the immortal drop is very nice since you know he went dt/robo -imo you can't go double col so fast because with good mechanics your opponent can play aggressive and prevent you from -expoing while taking their own and playing from pretty far ahead in econ. However, im not sure of your level so this may or may not be something you want to try. -try to start your +2 as soon as +1 is finished. Upgrades are really important in pvp. Im glad you only got 1 forge though ^^. --Don't get 2 like your opponent. -Take your third base a lot faster. Even if you dont feel like you can hold an attack, its not too bad to let it die. You should be able to hold as soon as you start col though and identify your opponent is getting his gasses and tech. -take your gasses at your third before its finished. The main reason you get a third is for gas so start harvesting it right away. -8 gates on 3 bases. perfect. -make sure to get cannons up at your bases asap, if he drops you you're pretty fucked. Usually you want to add 1 to each base right before you take your third. If you're high gm you can skip these in certain scenarios but to play safe just grab them before the third. -You get a 2nd forge now for the shields, i wouldnt bother tbh... Just spend more chrono on the +3 to get it finished and then start the shields or armour afterwards. -you stop at 10 col and start immortals. This is pretty good compositionally. Nice job. ~20:00 your money is building up so you should add on some more production. make sure to take the gas at the fourth as soon as possible again. Its basically the only reason you're grabbing it. -send zealots around the map for vision. -Use haluc scouts more to see where his army is and where your dts can go safely ;p -you have way too many probes. ~70 to his 50. This means that he has 20 supply up on you in army. This might cause you to lose later even though you composed your army better. -there are quite a few times in this game where he starts a fight badly and you get the upper hand but you dont commit. If you had, there's a good chance you'll win. -Again, tons of money, add more production, lots more. ***BIG mistake at 31:00. Your zealots pull his army WAY out of position and you dont capitalize on it. This is your moment. You've been so patient for the last 30 minutes and you finally have a big opportunity to take the lead and snipe BOTH bases on the left but instead your army stays put. Next time you really need to capitalize on this. Remember, your zealots aren't really supposed to do any damage at this stage in the game , its all about either distracting your opponent or pulling his army out of position. -I think you should be more aggressive this game, at least poke around once you get maxed on the perfect composition. If it's your style to play passive then you should add a fleet beacon way earlier and try to get tempest out, then at least you're moving towards the perfect army. -I take back what I said about sniping his base, you do get in there after a bit of a delay and take out so nice job ^^! Still a big problem you have is too many probes. It only takes 1 fight in pvp so just sack a lot of them and bring your army supply up if you're banking a lot of money. @35minutes the big battle happens that decides the game. You basically only lose because he has more stuff. However, your positioning in the fight also played a small role, you are in a tight space whereas he has room to spread out. In addition your kiting the collossi needs a little bit of work when you're controlling them sometimes you move to quickly and although the animation starts they dont do any damage. You have to wait a little bit into the animation for them to actually fire. tldr; sack more probes to increase army supply. Try to make arcs in pvp and force your opponent to take bad engagements where you have the concave. Tech to tempests faster or be a little more aggressive with your army. Just made some quick jot notes, its a bit messy so I apologize. If anythings unclear let me know. everythings clear, I just lose all the time in late engagements which is why I play so passive seems like every, single, time, I get aggressive, even if he has to run his whole army thru one hex I get rolled and it's gotten me incredibly frustrated and has destroyed my confidence in the matchup hushang do you mind if I msg you in game? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Void ray chargelot archon is cute but it has the massive drawback of not being able to pressure for a very long time, which is why 3base blink is so incredibly versatile (you can allin off 45 probes or macro off 66 and the zerg will have very, very hard time in teling the difference), so most zerg fast tech builds kind of go out of the window. 3base blink is also much better at containing creep spread. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On May 08 2015 05:41 darkness wrote: So how does that deal with roaches or do you rely on immortals? I imagine roaches laugh at storm. blink stalker/sentry/immortal is born to kill infinite amounts of roaches. This style relies heavily on good forcefields, if you get them down the eventual storm is just an icing on the cake  | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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shizznit
23 Posts
come on now | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On May 08 2015 06:08 shizznit wrote: lol you can't try it once and call it bs come on now I've tried it twice. I lost the 1st time. The second time I almost lost. You simply can't rush for high templars before you have immortals it seems. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On May 08 2015 06:20 Teoita wrote: Who said you should rush to storm? You can tech to it after your blink pressure is over and yeah, in the meantime you will have a couple of immortals. Also against committed 3base roach hydra builds you shouldnt try to tech to anything past blink/immorta/+3. 4base roach/hydra/ling with vipers, spire or ultras is a completely different animal That's what I've played against those 2 games. I've just watched the 2nd game and it's kind of like Stephano's WoL style. Well, you should have provided a replay or VOD for clarification. I tried to rush for blink and storm at the same time. It fails against roach pressure. | ||
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