EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 325
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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strategybytegaming
2 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
On February 17 2015 03:28 strategybytegaming wrote: Hey guys, me and my brother made a very simple video on the 2 stalker-MSC opener for PvT and you should check it out! :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET3uj1dzCbc User was temp banned for this post. Again..Bad build. Not needed pylons, Late expand, no tech from 2 gases. | ||
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Icekin
88 Posts
On February 16 2015 20:01 insitelol wrote: About oracle openings - yes, i agree with Teoita, but this opening is much more volatile and unstable compared to standard robo/blink and it was so popular recently that every single terran knows how to react properly so in most cases u end up with 1-2 scv kills that IMO can't be considered as a decent result. I often open oracle into phoenix/colossus, but it requires way more management than other builds, so I'm not really good with it atm. By the way, now that you mention it, could you please tell me your bo when doing robo/blink? I saw harstem bo with 1 gate fe, robo->bay then council and forge There is hero ones with 1 gate fe-> council/blink -> robo and bay And alicia 12/12 blink colossus all in It's kinda strange that no one does 2x gas at 15 for this build to get robo and council at same time. What kind of build do you guys suggest? blink or robo as first tech path? | ||
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Motlu
Australia884 Posts
I have seen more and more players recently who open blink first into double forge and robo for a less aggressive variant with a later third base which I think may suit a lot of the newer maps more as some are pretty hard to take 3rds on comfortably. In the end though it is up to personal preference and your playstyle. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On February 17 2015 16:43 Icekin wrote: By the way, now that you mention it, could you please tell me your bo when doing robo/blink? I saw harstem bo with 1 gate fe, robo->bay then council and forge There is hero ones with 1 gate fe-> council/blink -> robo and bay And alicia 12/12 blink colossus all in It's kinda strange that no one does 2x gas at 15 for this build to get robo and council at same time. What kind of build do you guys suggest? blink or robo as first tech path? Gate > 1 gas > core > 21 nexus > stalker > sentry > robo asap > +2 gates > 2 observers > warprpism (optional) > bay > constant colosi production (i stop at 6) + warp stalkers to defend. i build twilight when i have enough gas which depends on terran pushing/dropping (usually around when 1st/2nd colosi out) im building forge at around this time as well. It may sound a bit extreme but i get only 1 forge and chrono weapons exclusively. instead of getting 2nd forge i usually go for fast archives (scv pulls u know). 3rd base is around 9-11 min. charge is the last thing i get. My army comp in mid game (~14+ min) is colosi/3sentries/stalkers/ht. there is a small window when i got too much tech and not so many stalkers but if u survive this period u are in a decent spot with ~3-4 Hts/4-5 colosi and stalkers support. Im very succesfull with this playstyle was like 65% in pvt last season and most of my loses come from non-standard plays (mech etc) (top dia). | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On February 16 2015 19:28 insitelol wrote: Sorry, just wondering... why would you guys keep trying to open oracle in pvt and then justify being behind (which is obviously so)? Isn't it easier to open standard? edit: 1 base cheeses in pvt are pretty much dead... just accept that. Any of these can actually work but it mostly relies on oponent not scouting. In this scenario you can try someting super crazy and out of meta like 10gate 3 gate or proxy 4 gate etc. They aren't dead. Proxy void rays, 1 base blink, are still pretty strong, depending on the maps. 10 gate into 3 gate and 4 gate, on the other hand, are terrible. They basically get countered by lifting the OC in the main and getting 2 bunkers on the ramp. | ||
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Icekin
88 Posts
It's like proxy oracle but I go straight void instead? this one? 9 - Pylon 13 - Gateway (1) 15 - Pylon 17 - Assimilator (1) (2) 19 - Cybernetics Core 20 - Pylon 21 - Warpgate + Stalker (1), Chronoboost both as they start Once opposing scout has left the base Stargate + Gateway (2) (3) | ||
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
On February 18 2015 01:31 Icekin wrote: This is what I was talking about. How to do a proxy void rays? It's like proxy oracle but I go straight void instead? this one? 9 - Pylon 13 - Gateway (1) 15 - Pylon 17 - Assimilator (1) (2) 19 - Cybernetics Core 20 - Pylon 21 - Warpgate + Stalker (1), Chronoboost both as they start Once opposing scout has left the base Stargate + Gateway (2) (3) you never do just voidrays, if oponent don't go like 14 doble CC...Because you loose to any gimmick he can throw on you..start with oracle always, to scare him, and he will stay on base.Then void rays | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On February 18 2015 01:41 TedBurtle wrote: you never do just voidrays, if oponent don't go like 14 doble CC...Because you loose to any gimmick he can throw on you..start with oracle always, to scare him, and he will stay on base.Then void rays no its not. voidrays are fine. enemy will almost always assume oracle so if they reaper FE, a turret is mandatory. in this case your voidray is free to do whatever against 4 marines. you can focus down reactors, supply depots etc. When your stalker + 2nd voidray comes its usually gg from there. | ||
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Icekin
88 Posts
Is that build correct anyway? | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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imabigboi
26 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
On February 18 2015 08:33 imabigboi wrote: How y'all play play blink vs blink in pvp? It's all about micro, idea is to -> hold enemy on the ramp , while expanding. Assuming you got similar skill and no one screwed up, and it's for example 9 stalkers vs 9 stalkers, so you cant come on the ramp. Or you can be tricky and make like 2 groups, one on the ramp, one in the shadows down the ramp, so when enemy attack, you go from 2 sides, it will be tricky micro, but you can catch him off guard. If you wanna build? : standart 13gate(checkmain), 15doblegas, ~2:30 Pylon, ~2:50 cybernetics (go scout) 3:40 Mothership+Warpgate+Stalker (you need to save 2 chrono for this moment, i do it on Mother and Warpgate) on ~4:10 Twilight ->second stalker from gate 5:00 BLINK Research -> +2Gate -> +Stalker from Gate -> ~5:45 Robo(to not to die from DT) -> Proxy Pylon around 5;50 (now you have around 32/34 supply, pylon finish and you have 32/42, warp 3 stalkers, poke) Blink will finish with chrono's around 7:10 , you need to have ~9 stalkers. | ||
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imabigboi
26 Posts
On February 18 2015 15:08 TedBurtle wrote: It's all about micro, idea is to -> hold enemy on the ramp , while expanding. Assuming you got similar skill and no one screwed up, and it's for example 9 stalkers vs 9 stalkers, so you cant come on the ramp. Or you can be tricky and make like 2 groups, one on the ramp, one in the shadows down the ramp, so when enemy attack, you go from 2 sides, it will be tricky micro, but you can catch him off guard. If you wanna build? : standart 13gate(checkmain), 15doblegas, ~2:30 Pylon, ~2:50 cybernetics (go scout) 3:40 Mothership+Warpgate+Stalker (you need to save 2 chrono for this moment, i do it on Mother and Warpgate) on ~4:10 Twilight ->second stalker from gate 5:00 BLINK Research -> +2Gate -> +Stalker from Gate -> ~5:45 Robo(to not to die from DT) -> Proxy Pylon around 5;50 (now you have around 32/34 supply, pylon finish and you have 32/42, warp 3 stalkers, poke) Blink will finish with chrono's around 7:10 , you need to have ~9 stalkers. When to expand? And it looks impossible to move down the ramp and attack into well-positioned stalkers. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On February 19 2015 02:04 imabigboi wrote: When to expand? And it looks impossible to move down the ramp and attack into well-positioned stalkers. It's blink vs blink, you have no reason to camp above your ramp. You should always have as many stalkers as your opponent. The most common mistake is to warp in a bunch of sentries and expand while your opponent is still spamming stalkers. So, you need to scout very carefully with your stalkers around the map . You can use a probe to check when he is expanding. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On February 19 2015 02:04 imabigboi wrote: When to expand? And it looks impossible to move down the ramp and attack into well-positioned stalkers. It depends on the map, but I would start a robo upon scouting his blink and expand. You can always cancel it if he goes pure blink all in, and wait for immortals to secure it. I generallly commit to defending it in 2 situations: 1) He has a nexus too 2) I have 2 immortals Immortals should hold him back, and once you have overcharge too his pure blink stalkers shouldn't break you anymore | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On February 19 2015 07:03 Arcanefrost wrote: It depends on the map, but I would start a robo upon scouting his blink and expand. You can always cancel it if he goes pure blink all in, and wait for immortals to secure it. I generallly commit to defending it in 2 situations: 1) He has a nexus too 2) I have 2 immortals Immortals should hold him back, and once you have overcharge too his pure blink stalkers shouldn't break you anymore This can be a double edged sword though. 1 Immortal alone is , including the robo, 450 minerals+200 gas, meaning that you will have 4 stalkers less if your opponent skipped the robo. This might be or might be not worth it, but it's definitely terrible if you get attacked before the first immortal is finished. It's only when you have 2 immortals that the investment really starts paying off. Naturally if you're up in your main you can use overcharge (although this might not be the case if you scouted with your msc and was forced to recall, which is pretty frequent), but then your opponent can still contain you, and having immortals is counter-productive when you must deal with a contain. If you decide to expand AND tech to robo at the same time, it should be impossible to defend your natural from a properly executed attack, I feel like. What you can do is to take control of your natural ramp without actually expanding immediately. This way you will have enough units to hold and you can abuse the high ground advantage. | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
I'm struggling a lot on the new maps with PvT. Genrally the game for me goes like this. 1. we both expand 2. i get a robo forge and gateways 3. fend off the 9min pressure 4. both players take 3rd 5. 14~15min theres another push and I die. The reason seems to be, i have 5 stalkers in the main to stop drops because on most of the new maps the distance from 3rd to main is so long. the fight is usually 160~170 supply vs 190~200. however minus 10 supply for the stalkers that basically can't move. so it's almost unwinnable. I die even if they are a moving into 3 collosus. | ||
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