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On March 25 2013 05:43 Atlas247 wrote:
So I've been playing against Swarmhost/Corrupter where the zerg just sniper observer over and over. Man this is frustrating and I honestly have no clue how to beat it. Don't tell me to go tempest or something either because by that time its too late.
Have an observer follow one of your colossi.
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Are there any links to MC's oracle bust PvT build?
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This might be a broad question, but how do I use the new units in Hots? MSC is awesome, but I dont know when not to get the MSC. Right now I just love the unit. I might build it too early at times (food 24, depends on my intuition and mood).
Also, oracle is only used as an harass unit? What about its abilities? I guess if you open stargate (which I love too), its good to have for detection and tracking armies instead of the observer? And what about its defend ability say ling run by? I had a really good run with the oracle versus a toss that opened FE. Attacked with zealot-stalker, cleaned the first stalker or so, then after I sent my 2 oracle in cleaning 30 probes.
Tempest seems quite expensive, and I have only used it when I totally crush my oponents anyway. Any idea when to incorporate this unit? It is expensive in itself, but it also demands lots of babysitting, say zerg will respond with anti air (corruptor/mutas). Is it meant to only have a 4-5 of them, and rest voidrays/phoenix to make skytoss scary? You must engage by air kind of scary, or else I will nuke from distance at the back of your base?
Also, I dont get the new void ray. How has it really changed its autoattack, its good versus marines now even? Tried google this shit, but came up with all sorts of porn instead.
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Is there any build countering 2 base swarmhost / Nydus / mass queens / later on corrupter?
I am at the point leaving the game instantly when I scout it. Because even if I know its coming I am going to lose.
I just dont know any build that could possible counter it. The scouting isn't the problem at all.
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Italy12248 Posts
Squirtle vs Leenock on Icarus; the game pretty much ends when Squirtle gets Colossus up as Leenock sacrificed too much econ to get his sh's up on 2 bases.
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Austria24422 Posts
That was because Squirtle does a huge counter warpin. I think abusing the immobility of it as quickly as possible is the key. Zerg is investing a ton into the all in so they likely won't have static defense at home.
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Italy12248 Posts
And even if they do he'll be forced to move out of position and you'll buy time for the colo tech to kick in. Even if you don't do damage with your zealots, you force his sh and locusts away from you.
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What if leenock would have done a better job at scouting for pylons? Or finding the probe? Can he just warpin zealots outside his base and walk all the way to leenocks base? It would still be a threat of zealots heading to his base.
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Italy12248 Posts
You might try getting a warp prism out seeing as you're going robo anyway.
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Thanks, was hoping for that answer Teoita 
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My problem with that is that scouting a zerg going 2base and not getting Phoenixes is pretty bad vs Muta's.. 
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Italy12248 Posts
I feel like with a Stargate build you could buy enough time to get a fast colossus out though.
In the game i linked Squirtle didn't go fast robo either, he wanted to do a gateway allin and then backed out and teched up. Either way, it's not a straight up fast robo build.
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Is there a map or a situation in PvZ where the 2-base immo/sentry Soul Train isn't a good idea (gold league)? I really like the concept of the build and wanna tighten my execution, but I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to understand the external factors involved (up to and including if he scouts it).
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On March 25 2013 20:55 priestnoob wrote:My problem with that is that scouting a zerg going 2base and not getting Phoenixes is pretty bad vs Muta's..
you have sentries to scout for that.
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On March 25 2013 20:54 Teoita wrote:
You might try getting a warp prism out seeing as you're going robo anyway.
with all the overlords + corrupter its actually really hard to get the prism throught thought.
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Italy12248 Posts
On March 26 2013 01:34 GaliX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 20:54 Teoita wrote:
You might try getting a warp prism out seeing as you're going robo anyway. with all the overlords + corrupter its actually really hard to get the prism throught thought.
You should be able to get it out way before he has corruptors if he opens with a 2base build because he has so much less econ. As i said the point of the zealot warpins is to force the sh's back and buy time for your tech to kick in, not to actually kill stuff (although that's a nice bonus).
@kizzer: vs 2base tech immortal allins are bad. They also seem to be weaker in HotS because zergs can get swarm hosts and/or hydras up in time to defend it, and hydras are more useful than they were in WoL. It's a good build to learn though.
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On March 17 2013 07:45 Ldawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 19:37 recklessfire wrote:On March 16 2013 16:34 Ldawg wrote:So I ran into a build in PvT on ladder quite often that has me very frustrated. They proxy a factory then land in a corner of my base. Basically if I can't get in his base with a probe scout I have no idea this is coming and it seems ridiculous to stop. Here is an excellent TL post by Bronzeknee (GM with Protoss) that describes the build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384139¤tpage=2#29This build seems even worse now that the MSC doesn't have any detection abilities. Has anyone ran into this build and have any suggestions? i dont think there's an answer until blizzard changes something. I ran into a proxy widow mine build but he was rallying marauders from a 2nd rax that i couldnt scout because of the full wall. He just walks into my natural and places mines while pressuring my ramp. Even after getting the robo out, it took a while to fend off his marauders and the three mines he had placed in my natural. By the time i placed my nexus down, he already expanded so I was pretty behind in economy and since robo/colossus tech is so gas dependent i was pretty much screwed from that point. I dont have issues with aggressive options this early in the game. I dont have an issue with the mines themselves but I think they come out way too fast, and it takes so much gas to get out the necessary detection to deal with this. They are more threatening than cloak banshees imo. Yes, I find this proxy widow mine build super-frustrating and nigh unstoppable. Throw in the fact that a high percentage of Terran players use this against me on ladder and I am at the point where I just sit out until something is changed. Even when I see the proxy factory and deny it in my base they just have a widow mine bury at my natural and expand since the mine will deny my expo for several minutes until I get detection.
This hasn't been talked about for a while but I ran into this proxy factory -> land in main build for the first time yesterday. I knew something was fishy so I scouted and found the proxy factory right as it was lifting off to try to get inside my base. So I pulled a probe and sat it under the factory so it couldn't land, which completely shut down any aggression he would've been wanting to do. He didn't try to send it back to where it was proxied to land it but if he had I'm pretty sure I would've been able to kill any widow mines long before they made it to my natural. I ended up throwing the game away on an ill-advised allin but I think the idea of not allowing the factory to land is worth knowing.
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I need replays or VODs of solid builds and openers for PvZ.
I'm struggling finding a comfortable macro oriented opener that works. I'm in EU masters league and the zergs just seem like ten times better players than the terrans and protoss at my level :l
My typical PvZ I open FFE into late 4gas robo (36-40supply). Chrono out 2-3 observers while getting 8 sentries and some other gateway units. Now there are basically three possibilities for the zerg: Muta, swarm host or roach/hydra. If I see muta I realize that I'm most likely dead, as my twillight council and blink (thanks blink nerf) is way too far away to survive muta harass + follow up. If I somehow manage to survive, I will never be able to take a third before zerg has 8 gases running with comfortable saturation (this is gg). If it's one of the other two, I try to get colossus up in time, but I feel like taking a third is impossible before getting 3-4 colo out.. and then I it's too late.
The only PvZ games I win is when I've been going blind 2 robo colossus on two base, and luckily hard counter their swarm host or hydra play.
Perhaps I need to play less safe.. either earlier third or a more aggressive style? Perhaps stargate opening is the best way to play safe against zerg? I see a lot of KESPA protoss doing that.
It's really frustrating to have so much trouble in PvZ, as I feel like I'm improving shit tons in PvP and PvT.
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JSK, that's a pretty sick writeup - looking forward to you fleshing it out a bit. It probably merits its own thread once you have some replays up.
Just wondering - have you considered chronoing your first stalker/MSC and harassing zerg with those? I've been able to get good damage in with those initial pokes (though I usually just let them die, and your build might want to pull them back so they can move out again against the third).
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EPT
