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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
On March 23 2013 19:25 rsvp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 19:07 Nipje wrote:On March 23 2013 11:58 Harpwn wrote:in pvp, if i want to stargate opener, do i put 1 or 2 gates down b4 stargate? and do i start with phoenixes every time? is oracle worth it? when do i swap to voidray (if ever?). im just really lost pvp  I usually go for a oracle opening in PvP. I open double gas but i build my stargate after my 3th gateway. I lost to many games by going for a stargate first. Early aggression is hard to hold imo when going stargate first imo. When i am moving out with the oracle i take my expansion (i do have a mothership core by this time) and i switch over to voidray production. Going stargate after 1 gateway is perfectly safe, my favorite stargate opener is gateway - stargate - 2nd gateway, with zealot - sentry - zealot (no chrono) out of your first gateway. Spend chrono on your warpgate tech.
Do you have the buildorder with chrono timings for this build? It sounds great! Thanks for the info.
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India465 Posts
Need some help guys PvT - I open 1 gate zealot+staler+MSC push to bait front to get some oracle harass at his mineral line - Post that expanded and went to blink and speedlot tech- I see his push coming and get completely destroyed. I think I mis clicked during the fight not sure but checked my army and worker supply I was way head (in workers atleast). Is this the right opening in PVT right now ..thanks in advance!
http://drop.sc/312542
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India465 Posts
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anyone got any idea how to beat terrran? master protoss
User was warned for this post
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anyone here knows if Oracle damage is reduced by the enemy armor?
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On March 23 2013 20:21 Nipje wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 19:25 rsvp wrote:On March 23 2013 19:07 Nipje wrote:On March 23 2013 11:58 Harpwn wrote:in pvp, if i want to stargate opener, do i put 1 or 2 gates down b4 stargate? and do i start with phoenixes every time? is oracle worth it? when do i swap to voidray (if ever?). im just really lost pvp I usually go for a oracle opening in PvP. I open double gas but i build my stargate after my 3th gateway. I lost to many games by going for a stargate first. Early aggression is hard to hold imo when going stargate first imo. When i am moving out with the oracle i take my expansion (i do have a mothership core by this time) and i switch over to voidray production. Going stargate after 1 gateway is perfectly safe, my favorite stargate opener is gateway - stargate - 2nd gateway, with zealot - sentry - zealot (no chrono) out of your first gateway. Spend chrono on your warpgate tech. Do you have the buildorder with chrono timings for this build? It sounds great! Thanks for the info.
A rough build order to open oracle (not what rsvp recommends but modify it to fit your needs I guess) would be something like this (chrono probes 3x at 9, 12, 15):
9 Pylon
13 Gate (scout with probe)
14 Gas
16 Pylon
18 Core
21 Warpgate research (chronoboost)
19 Gas (2)
22 Stalker
25 Pylon
25 Stargate
26 Stalker
30 Oracle
33 2x Gateways
33 Pylon
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On March 24 2013 01:16 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 20:21 Nipje wrote:On March 23 2013 19:25 rsvp wrote:On March 23 2013 19:07 Nipje wrote:On March 23 2013 11:58 Harpwn wrote:in pvp, if i want to stargate opener, do i put 1 or 2 gates down b4 stargate? and do i start with phoenixes every time? is oracle worth it? when do i swap to voidray (if ever?). im just really lost pvp I usually go for a oracle opening in PvP. I open double gas but i build my stargate after my 3th gateway. I lost to many games by going for a stargate first. Early aggression is hard to hold imo when going stargate first imo. When i am moving out with the oracle i take my expansion (i do have a mothership core by this time) and i switch over to voidray production. Going stargate after 1 gateway is perfectly safe, my favorite stargate opener is gateway - stargate - 2nd gateway, with zealot - sentry - zealot (no chrono) out of your first gateway. Spend chrono on your warpgate tech. Do you have the buildorder with chrono timings for this build? It sounds great! Thanks for the info. A rough build order to open oracle (not what rsvp recommends but modify it to fit your needs I guess) would be something like this (chrono probes 3x at 9, 12, 15): 9 Pylon 13 Gate (scout with probe) 14 Gas 16 Pylon 18 Core 21 Warpgate research (chronoboost) 19 Gas (2) 22 Stalker 25 Pylon 25 Stargate 26 Stalker 30 Oracle 33 2x Gateways 33 Pylon
The build I use is pretty much this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=350993. Only difference now with HoTS is that I skip the 2nd sentry and make a MSC instead. The build is also very flexbile, for example if you want to get oracles and skip the robo for an earlier expo that works too.
madnessman - I don't quite understand your build, it looks like some sort of stargate gateway all-in? How do you deal with any sort of early gateway pressure if you only make 2 unchrono'd stalkers out of your first gateway?
On March 23 2013 22:51 vahgar.r24 wrote:Need some help guys PvT - I open 1 gate zealot+staler+MSC push to bait front to get some oracle harass at his mineral line - Post that expanded and went to blink and speedlot tech- I see his push coming and get completely destroyed. I think I mis clicked during the fight not sure but checked my army and worker supply I was way head (in workers atleast). Is this the right opening in PVT right now ..thanks in advance! http://drop.sc/312542
The game was pretty even after your oracles did their damage. When he attacked you were ahead in workers but the army sizes were fairly equal (maybe his was even slightly bigger) - except it's 15 minutes into the game and you have no AOE, so his army is actually much much stronger than yours.
- Why do you have 7 sentries? You only need 3-4 at max, the only reason you'd get more than that is if you were going for early gateway aggression.
- Instead of spending all that gas on sentries you could have went HT tech for storm or at least archons, giving you some sort of AOE to hold off his attack.
- You did indeed misclick, walking your army into his instead of a-moving. Your forcefields also didn't do anything.
- Charge was not finished at the time of the engagement. When you saw his troops moving out, you had plenty of time to chrono out and finish charge in time for the engagement, but you didn't chrono it.
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@rsvp : I used to practice a lot HerO's Stargate FE on WoL, but on HotS i'm getting crushed by a properly done 3 gate push (5 stalker with 2 gates, then warp 3 other ones), because the sentry can be sniped so easily when stalker have vision.
What do you think about the way we have to deal with this push ? I'm practising it a lot on the ladder, and it seems that many people are afraid of this push, and instantly put a second gate when i do. (Or maybe is it just the metagame which is bad ?)
Another interessant build is the 1 gate expand, because the 2nd base is up so early, and when you activate photon overcharge, you are safe versus a lot of things. And by the time the overcharge run out, you can have immortals. Is it safe versus any pressure with tech units ?
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On March 24 2013 07:23 NDie wrote:
@rsvp : I used to practice a lot HerO's Stargate FE on WoL, but on HotS i'm getting crushed by a properly done 3 gate push (5 stalker with 2 gates, then warp 3 other ones), because the sentry can be sniped so easily when stalker have vision.
What do you think about the way we have to deal with this push ? I'm practising it a lot on the ladder, and it seems that many people are afraid of this push, and instantly put a second gate when i do. (Or maybe is it just the metagame which is bad ?)
Another interessant build is the 1 gate expand, because the 2nd base is up so early, and when you activate photon overcharge, you are safe versus a lot of things. And by the time the overcharge run out, you can have immortals. Is it safe versus any pressure with tech units ?
Just scout. If you see any sighnts of a 3-4 gate just go gate+stargate+2gates and you should hold it with good micro and be ahead after it, because you will have phoenixes to harras him for ever.
I even holded off a couple of 4 gates without scouting anything by playing save stargate with 3 gates.
But Can't find a replay atm. Haven't met any 4gating people recently.
Comes out of style.
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On March 24 2013 09:27 GaliX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 07:23 NDie wrote:
@rsvp : I used to practice a lot HerO's Stargate FE on WoL, but on HotS i'm getting crushed by a properly done 3 gate push (5 stalker with 2 gates, then warp 3 other ones), because the sentry can be sniped so easily when stalker have vision.
What do you think about the way we have to deal with this push ? I'm practising it a lot on the ladder, and it seems that many people are afraid of this push, and instantly put a second gate when i do. (Or maybe is it just the metagame which is bad ?)
Another interessant build is the 1 gate expand, because the 2nd base is up so early, and when you activate photon overcharge, you are safe versus a lot of things. And by the time the overcharge run out, you can have immortals. Is it safe versus any pressure with tech units ?
Just scout. If you see any sighnts of a 3-4 gate just go gate+stargate+2gates and you should hold it with good micro and be ahead after it, because you will have phoenixes to harras him for ever. I even holded off a couple of 4 gates without scouting anything by playing save stargate with 3 gates. But Can't find a replay atm. Haven't met any 4gating people recently. Comes out of style.
If I go one gate stargate and get 4 gated, I have been adding one additional gate and making void rays instead of phoenix. It's not an easy hold, but I think I have held every single 4 gate and come out of it with 2 or more void rays, which is a position that is very easy to win from.
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I've been having trouble going zealot sentry zealot if they chrono out a mothership core really fast and snipe your sentry with it. At that point, your only anti-sentry is your sentry and their mothership core can snipe it really easily. Against later mothership cores it seems pretty safe. They have vision up your ramp but if you play it right, they shouldn't be able to snipe your sentry.
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Anyone watch NASL BO101 last night and see Rotterdam's 11 gate into 3 stalkers at 5:05 (he generally gets a stargate, sentry, then gateway behind this)? Is this an optimal build compared to say a 3 stalker + MsC pressure behind 3gates? I feel like the latter is the better choice at this point in the metagame but wasn't sure what other people had thought if they watched the show last night.
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I'm curious what other peoples race distribution is so far. In 83 1v1 ranked games i've played 38 zerg, 25 terran, 20 protoss.
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I tend to open 1 gate expands with zealot stalker pressure into stargate for PvZ. I like the idea that you can pressure with zealot and stalker to force units and trade a queen or a couple of drones for a zealot. The issue i have however is with gas pool openings that go for fast speedlings and they hit me at around 6 minutes when my forge just finishes. I have worked around getting a forge and cannon before nexus that allows a 5.45 cannon to be completed then my nexus goes down, but im thinking of more efficient ways to prevent that if any?
Here is the build order: (from JayPowers, naniwa PvZ 1 gate expand into stargate)
9 pylon
13 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
23 stalker
25 pylon (natural)
27 nexus, gas #2
28 forge (natural)
28 Stargate
31 pylon (natural)
32 cannon, 2nd gate
For transition, depending on what i scout, spire or hydra den/roach warren, i get a early double gas at the expo into colossi production and make more Phoenix if I see a spire or a start producing voidrays if i see a roach warren or infestation pit. The main composition will be colossi voidray with an immortal or two mixed in if there are roaches plus plenty of blink stalkers. Along with that i'll get a third base and add on a twilight council plus more gates to get blink. After the third base templar and into late game PvZ.
Note that i do make 4-6 phoenix first. MSC is usually after i completed this build. Oracles are a viable option but since i am going phoenix I don't see how it could use it. Maybe make 2 oracles instead of 4 phoenix?
What are you're thoughts on this? Any better transitions? Something I can do better?
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On March 24 2013 16:47 OSL0rd wrote:
I tend to open 1 gate expands with zealot stalker pressure into stargate for PvZ. I like the idea that you can pressure with zealot and stalker to force units and trade a queen or a couple of drones for a zealot. The issue i have however is with gas pool openings that go for fast speedlings and they hit me at around 6 minutes when my forge just finishes. I have worked around getting a forge and cannon before nexus that allows a 5.45 cannon to be completed then my nexus goes down, but im thinking of more efficient ways to prevent that if any?
Here is the build order: (from JayPowers, naniwa PvZ 1 gate expand into stargate)
9 pylon
13 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
23 stalker
25 pylon (natural)
27 nexus, gas #2
28 forge (natural)
28 Stargate
31 pylon (natural)
32 cannon, 2nd gate
I feel like opening 1gate expo leaves you behind if Zerg defends it well. That, and like you said, it is harder to secure your expo without getting hit by cheesy attacks. I'm heavily partial to FFE at the moment and feel like it is a much safer opening than any kind of 1gate opening. 1gate gives you more early options and lets you tech faster, but Zerg can get too far ahead if they play well.
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On March 24 2013 16:58 SteveNick wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 16:47 OSL0rd wrote:
I tend to open 1 gate expands with zealot stalker pressure into stargate for PvZ. I like the idea that you can pressure with zealot and stalker to force units and trade a queen or a couple of drones for a zealot. The issue i have however is with gas pool openings that go for fast speedlings and they hit me at around 6 minutes when my forge just finishes. I have worked around getting a forge and cannon before nexus that allows a 5.45 cannon to be completed then my nexus goes down, but im thinking of more efficient ways to prevent that if any?
Here is the build order: (from JayPowers, naniwa PvZ 1 gate expand into stargate)
9 pylon
13 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
23 stalker
25 pylon (natural)
27 nexus, gas #2
28 forge (natural)
28 Stargate
31 pylon (natural)
32 cannon, 2nd gate
I feel like opening 1gate expo leaves you behind if Zerg defends it well. That, and like you said, it is harder to secure your expo without getting hit by cheesy attacks. I'm heavily partial to FFE at the moment and feel like it is a much safer opening than any kind of 1gate opening. 1gate gives you more early options and lets you tech faster, but Zerg can get too far ahead if they play well.
Well said. I'm not really inclined to FFE as I cant seem to find any solid build orders on Stargate after FFE. Is there any you or some other person can link it to me?
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Does anyone know how to deal with a Terran who just goes for heavy Reaper aggression?
Here's an example game I played yesterday while trying to go for build similar to MC's vs Bomber/MVP:
http://drop.sc/312935
This is something this guy has done before, he just doesn't stop making Reapers, and I'm not quite sure how to deal with it. The fact that I was on one gate for so long was a big part in me losing, but I've played him before and had 3 gates and it made no difference.
Does anyone have any ideas?
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With the myriad of openings I've been facing on Diamond on KR in PvT, whats the general consensus regarding tech choice?
Is stargate simply better because of map control from 6-11/12minutes?
Can you still get away with 1 gate expo into stargate and still have AoE for the mid game push with medivacs?
What's the down side of robo opening into phoenixes for air zoning?
Been having an abysmal run with PvT Generally speaking, it just feels like gas openings are all the rage now and I've always been a robo-centric player so having to adapt with stargate has seen my WR plummet D:
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On March 24 2013 18:17 OSL0rd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 16:58 SteveNick wrote:On March 24 2013 16:47 OSL0rd wrote:
I tend to open 1 gate expands with zealot stalker pressure into stargate for PvZ. I like the idea that you can pressure with zealot and stalker to force units and trade a queen or a couple of drones for a zealot. The issue i have however is with gas pool openings that go for fast speedlings and they hit me at around 6 minutes when my forge just finishes. I have worked around getting a forge and cannon before nexus that allows a 5.45 cannon to be completed then my nexus goes down, but im thinking of more efficient ways to prevent that if any?
Here is the build order: (from JayPowers, naniwa PvZ 1 gate expand into stargate)
9 pylon
13 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
23 stalker
25 pylon (natural)
27 nexus, gas #2
28 forge (natural)
28 Stargate
31 pylon (natural)
32 cannon, 2nd gate
I feel like opening 1gate expo leaves you behind if Zerg defends it well. That, and like you said, it is harder to secure your expo without getting hit by cheesy attacks. I'm heavily partial to FFE at the moment and feel like it is a much safer opening than any kind of 1gate opening. 1gate gives you more early options and lets you tech faster, but Zerg can get too far ahead if they play well. Well said. I'm not really inclined to FFE as I cant seem to find any solid build orders on Stargate after FFE. Is there any you or some other person can link it to me?
I was under the impression that getting an immediate stargate after FFE was a very standard variation. I'm sure if you look around a bit at some replays you will see people getting a fast stargate after FFE.
Personally, I like to go a bit off-meta and into my own build where I get both a fast stargate and robo followed by some gateways. Then I get out oracle, observer, then when I scout I have the option of collosi, phoenix, voidray, etc. I'm not sure how good or standard my fast/blind stargate/robo is but I like it. You get out the fast oracle which is good for harass no matter what they're doing, and I like the fast observers as well. It lets you have most of your tech options available to you right off the start, and there's a high chance you're going to need either tech depending on what you scout. I feel like you pretty much have to have phoenixes to effectively deal with muta, so I like to already have the stargate. If I can't scout or scout something that's not mutalisk, I usually just drop a collosus bay. Again, I'm not saying this variation is the best by any means, but it's working for me at the moment and I feel like it's a pretty safe follow up.
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EPT
