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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
Defending DTs with a Stargate opening:
DTs on the earlier side arrive at 7 mins. From 7-8 mins, be on alert, hotkey the units at your ramp, poke around with your stalker or a probe if you have to for proxy pylons as usual. In 2 gas before core opening into stargate, you will have enough gas to get warpgate, stalker, sentry, an MSC, and start making a phoenix/oracle all before the DTs arrive.
Wall off your ramp with 2 zealots and have a sentry ready to forcefield.
+ Show Spoiler +
When you see the DT coming up, forcefield the ramp. Cancel anything in your stargate and make an oracle.
Likely, the DT will get in your base and you'll take losses. Have no fear, with good sim city, you can make sure your Stargate doesn't get unpowered:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.mediafire.com/conv/aa206b61d72361b7891b493364e436427d7b7ea8ef863ec81df4b35e09a3884d6g.jpg) Or something like this... this isn't very good I know.
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On March 23 2013 06:57 VelRa_G wrote:Defending DTs with a Stargate opening: DTs on the earlier side arrive at 7 mins. From 7-8 mins, be on alert, hotkey the units at your ramp, poke around with your stalker or a probe if you have to for proxy pylons as usual. In 2 gas before core opening into stargate, you will have enough gas to get warpgate, stalker, sentry, an MSC, and start making a phoenix/oracle all before the DTs arrive. Wall off your ramp with 2 zealots and have a sentry ready to forcefield. + Show Spoiler +When you see the DT coming up, forcefield the ramp. Cancel anything in your stargate and make an oracle. Likely, the DT will get in your base and you'll take losses. Have no fear, with good sim city, you can make sure your Stargate doesn't get unpowered: + Show Spoiler +Or something like this... this isn't very good I know.
As a player that almost exclusively DT expo's, I'd like to add that you should always be mindful of the few zealots that can come up the ramp after the 2 DT's get in. I like to bring them to do work on expansions if the opponent tried to take one, but if there's no expo I just send them up the ramp to distract his army while my DT's do their thing.
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Does anyone have a list of the new stargate and dt builds for PvP
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I'm not looking for a build order, but just a general unit composition that will work at lower level games. I'm not terribly good at macro etc. but I feel like I have no idea how this game works anymore, no matter what I make the other player just masses something off of one base and kills me. Is there like a safe, general army I should be aiming for because I've been trying mostly gateway centric armies and losing terribly every time.
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Italy12247 Posts
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On March 23 2013 04:06 DarQraven wrote:
Side question: What the hell do you do if both go DT?
From my experience and watching Grubby...
If you don't know what your opponent is doing then you can hallu. a phoenix and easily scout a DT. With a forcefield and maybe some probe running you can get some detection without taking TOO much damage.
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On March 23 2013 09:01 ThyLastPenguin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 04:06 DarQraven wrote:
Side question: What the hell do you do if both go DT? From my experience and watching Grubby... If you don't know what your opponent is doing then you can hallu. a phoenix and easily scout a DT. With a forcefield and maybe some probe running you can get some detection without taking TOO much damage.
When I DT expo, I drop a robo immediately after I warp my DT's at 7, This usually saves me in time (with proper sim city) even if the other player does a DT all in. I've had them go pretty far along in the neither player has detection thing. If a situation arises where neither of you has detection, but both have DT's, DO NOT WARP IN MORE GATEWAY UNITS. Dump all your gas into DT's, and build stuff around the map. Split your units as best you can and base race. Don't let your probes die, run them away and use them to add more dps in the base race.
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On DT vs DT:
I usually go 2gate forge if I know they're teching. Good things to watch out for are gas timings, whether they use chronos on the core, and whether they get a 2nd gateway before their first stalker is out. If they go double early gas, don't get a 2nd gateway, and don't chrono their core, then I know for certain I don't need a 3rd gateway. I also think it's important to get your stalkers and mothership core out onto the map as early as possible. If I know where their army is and what its composition is, that's a lot of information. A lot of times I see players just leaving their units in their natural, or worse, in their main. Photon Overcharge severely weakens pure gateway pressure, so there's no reason to do that anymore the way you would in WoL.
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PvZ on Daybreak. I pylon-scout my zerg opponent and saw that he went 6 pool. I started with a standard FFE, but once I saw the pool I built the first cannon in my mineral line. After that it was chaos.
How do I punish this? I don't know how to react to a 6 pool. 
(I held off the 6 pool and he went mutas and I was able to get 2 stargates up and get like, 10 phoenix and what not, but then he went hydras and it was pretty bad... I won the game, but just barely.)
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hey everyone, im a master protoss and i struggle in p vs z. i can only win if i either play immortal all in, or i max air.
and its extremly hard to survive that long with being even, so i always try things like immortal expand or air into expand but this mutas switches with like instant 20+ mutas kill me very often and i lose many games cause of that and the other point is that i cannot beat swarmhost without mass air, i tried colo and then i died to a muta switch afterwards, i really have no idea how to play vs zerg now
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On March 23 2013 10:59 Strater wrote:
hey everyone, im a master protoss and i struggle in p vs z. i can only win if i either play immortal all in, or i max air.
and its extremly hard to survive that long with being even, so i always try things like immortal expand or air into expand but this mutas switches with like instant 20+ mutas kill me very often and i lose many games cause of that and the other point is that i cannot beat swarmhost without mass air, i tried colo and then i died to a muta switch afterwards, i really have no idea how to play vs zerg now
Post a replay of you dying to mutas, and we can help.
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On March 23 2013 10:59 Strater wrote:
hey everyone, im a master protoss and i struggle in p vs z. i can only win if i either play immortal all in, or i max air.
and its extremly hard to survive that long with being even, so i always try things like immortal expand or air into expand but this mutas switches with like instant 20+ mutas kill me very often and i lose many games cause of that and the other point is that i cannot beat swarmhost without mass air, i tried colo and then i died to a muta switch afterwards, i really have no idea how to play vs zerg now
Don't use Collosi unless Zerg is going hydras, even then HT's with storm are better IMO. I FFE into stargate vs Zerg and it's a lot easier than you'd think. Oracles clean up mineral lines quickly and Phoenix are great at scouting and harassing. A lot of games you can catch sooooooo many overlords with pheonix and Zaerg is stuck without being able to make units. From Phoenix just transition to void rays and i love tempest so i use them a lot too.
Oh yea and phoenix with range upgrade kite mutas to death easily. Its all about scouting though. Scout their tech.
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i know that stargate openers are fine, but somehow i cant do damage with them cause many zerg expect them, and the problem with storm is that its bad vs swarmhost, or how shall i engage a big ball of swarmhosts with corrupter and hydra support ?
the problem is just that i dont die to mutas if my enemy goes straight for them (what is scoutable pretty easily) i die to later switch when just 20 apper in my base and i had no idea they werer coming
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I feel like u need to transition colossi against swarm hosts, even if u have a good amount of air. Those locusts just do too much free damage to ur units if you don't have aoe and having to waste storms on locusts is not fun. Void rays are good against swarm hosts but they don't really kill locusts fast enough. I think Stargate is a really good opening at the moment, but if they go swarm hosts, i feel you have to transition into colossi even if you have void rays and phoenix.
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Space pylons around your base like a ring - better vision. And Swarmhost/corrupter/hydralisk is a three base composition that takes a while to become overly powerful. After your initial phoenix you can go mass voids which with phoenix demolish corrupters, but you will need to outflank the swarmhosts with your ground army of Zealot/stalker/colossus (making colossus when you scout their tech path). If you let them siege up outside your third or natural it will be very bleak. Establish map control with phoenix and voids, try to control the towers as well. Swarm hosts are really powerful - you really need to react well.
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in pvp, if i want to stargate opener, do i put 1 or 2 gates down b4 stargate? and do i start with phoenixes every time? is oracle worth it? when do i swap to voidray (if ever?). im just really lost pvp
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On March 23 2013 11:37 Strater wrote:
i know that stargate openers are fine, but somehow i cant do damage with them cause many zerg expect them, and the problem with storm is that its bad vs swarmhost, or how shall i engage a big ball of swarmhosts with corrupter and hydra support ?
the problem is just that i dont die to mutas if my enemy goes straight for them (what is scoutable pretty easily) i die to later switch when just 20 apper in my base and i had no idea they werer coming
Have you tried opening blink stalkers? I usually go and have been doing this since WoL, +2 blink stalker into a third if done right it can hit at around 9 - 10 minutes and is powerful, mutas are few in numbers to be effective at that time and if they do manage to push you off you can still go for templar and +3, if they do roach hydra you build up immortal collosus in the background or HT...i think ht is going to be used more common now in pvz due to hydras being used more. I don't like stargate openings but thats just my personal opinion, i usually transition into stargate as the game progresses from mid - late
Also you aren't mean to engage swarmhost army unless you have multiple collosus out. If they have SH and you dont have collosus just dont engage the swarmhosts because they are so immobile your blinks stalkers can out move then, so go and blink all over map sniping bases, its good to get vision of the high grounds too whether it be hallucination, air or obs.
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On March 23 2013 11:58 Harpwn wrote:in pvp, if i want to stargate opener, do i put 1 or 2 gates down b4 stargate? and do i start with phoenixes every time? is oracle worth it? when do i swap to voidray (if ever?). im just really lost pvp
I usually go for a oracle opening in PvP. I open double gas but i build my stargate after my 3th gateway. I lost to many games by going for a stargate first. Early aggression is hard to hold imo when going stargate first imo. When i am moving out with the oracle i take my expansion (i do have a mothership core by this time) and i switch over to voidray production.
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On March 23 2013 19:07 Nipje wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 11:58 Harpwn wrote:in pvp, if i want to stargate opener, do i put 1 or 2 gates down b4 stargate? and do i start with phoenixes every time? is oracle worth it? when do i swap to voidray (if ever?). im just really lost pvp I usually go for a oracle opening in PvP. I open double gas but i build my stargate after my 3th gateway. I lost to many games by going for a stargate first. Early aggression is hard to hold imo when going stargate first imo. When i am moving out with the oracle i take my expansion (i do have a mothership core by this time) and i switch over to voidray production.
You really don't need to delay your stargate until after your 3rd gateway unless you scout a 4 gate or something like that. Going stargate after 1 gateway is perfectly safe, my favorite stargate opener is gateway - stargate - 2nd gateway, with zealot - sentry - zealot (no chrono) out of your first gateway. Spend chrono on your warpgate tech. If your opponent pokes you with zealot/stalker or 3 stalkers and tries to go up your ramp, he's just donating units to you if you position your zealots to block units from running past. Against 5 stalker MSC or more, you can warp in a sentry + stalker as your first warp-in wave, and that gives you 3 forcefields to delay and/or cut off his army if he tries to go up your ramp.
Of course, there are many other viable stargate builds, for example you can do a standard 2 gate 3 stalker build followed by a stargate.
Personally I don't like blind oracle openings in PvP, it just seems like too much of a gamble. If your opponent opens stargate as well and goes phoenix and catches your oracle (not at all unlikely given popularity of stargate these days), then you're way behind. Or if they simply have stalkers ready to defend their mineral line, then you would have been better off with phoenix instead of the oracle.
It's difficult to say when you should switch to void ray, it's very dependent on what your opponent is doing. If you just want a generic guideline, then I would probably open with 4-5 phoenix and expand behind it, then immediately switch to void ray.
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On March 23 2013 19:25 rsvp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 19:07 Nipje wrote:On March 23 2013 11:58 Harpwn wrote:in pvp, if i want to stargate opener, do i put 1 or 2 gates down b4 stargate? and do i start with phoenixes every time? is oracle worth it? when do i swap to voidray (if ever?). im just really lost pvp I usually go for a oracle opening in PvP. I open double gas but i build my stargate after my 3th gateway. I lost to many games by going for a stargate first. Early aggression is hard to hold imo when going stargate first imo. When i am moving out with the oracle i take my expansion (i do have a mothership core by this time) and i switch over to voidray production. You really don't need to delay your stargate until after your 3rd gateway unless you scout a 4 gate or something like that. Going stargate after 1 gateway is perfectly safe, my favorite stargate opener is gateway - stargate - 2nd gateway, with zealot - sentry - zealot (no chrono) out of your first gateway. Spend chrono on your warpgate tech. If your opponent pokes you with zealot/stalker or 3 stalkers and tries to go up your ramp, he's just donating units to you if you position your zealots to block units from running past. Against 5 stalker MSC or more, you can warp in a sentry + stalker as your first warp-in wave, and that gives you 3 forcefields to delay and/or cut off his army if he tries to go up your ramp. Of course, there are many other viable stargate builds, for example you can do a standard 2 gate 3 stalker build followed by a stargate. Personally I don't like blind oracle openings in PvP, it just seems like too much of a gamble. If your opponent opens stargate as well and goes phoenix and catches your oracle (not at all unlikely given popularity of stargate these days), then you're way behind. Or if they simply have stalkers ready to defend their mineral line, then you would have been better off with phoenix instead of the oracle. It's difficult to say when you should switch to void ray, it's very dependent on what your opponent is doing. If you just want a generic guideline, then I would probably open with 4-5 phoenix and expand behind it, then immediately switch to void ray.
Yup. Stargate after 1 gateway (with 2 more gateways after the stargate) can defend even defend against the more aggressive 3 gate stalker/MSC harass opening if you warp in sentries after and micro well.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.mediafire.com/conv/0dd1b763829e3bc84399e4134d6e7d4eb1216d6e585ff197db651b547383b8af6g.jpg)
