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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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priestnoob
243 Posts
On March 22 2013 02:18 SteveNick wrote: I didn't know where to post this, so I'll ask here: Where do I find high level HOTS replays that I can watch? Generally, it's pretty hard to do so, given that the game is so new. Happily, hellokitty just released a replay pack (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404133). | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:07 nappeee wrote: Does anyone have a buildorder/guide/VOD of the build that rushes mothershipcore super fast (before warpgate) and attacks terran with the MSC + 1 zealot + 1stalker. Saw Sage do it on stream and tried it a couple times on ladder myself. It's super fun and sometimes you can just kill the T with those 3 units lol. I haven't seen the exact build that Sage does but I've been doing something similar and I essentially just use a standard 1 gas opener where instead of stalker + warpgate tech when core finishes, you just get stalker + MSC. 9 pylon 13 gate 14 gas (you might have to cut probes for a fraction of a second), 3 probes on it asap pylon at next 100 minerals core when gate finishes zealot at next 100 minerals pylon at next 100 minerals stalker + MSC when core finishes, this should put you at 26 supply first 3 chrono on probes, then a chrono on stalker and a chrono on MSC On March 22 2013 03:33 Nipje wrote: In the PvP matchups i am struggeling a bit with my chronoboost timings. In this matchup i want to build my gateway at 13, gas at 14 and second gas after my first one (double gas opening). Then pylon at 16. I want to spend my chrono boosts effectively and i do not want a chronoboost active while i can not make a probe. I can not seem to get this timing right. Is there anyone that has a lot of experience with this opening and has figured out the timings? It is a stargate opening to be clear. If you do a double gas opening, you will either have to delay your core for a second or 2, or cut probes for a second or 2 if you want your core asap. If you delay your core, then you can use your first 3 chrono on probes and you shouldn't have to cut probes. If you want your core asap then you should not use your 3rd chrono on probes (or use it sometimes later). | ||
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SC2Panda
Germany25 Posts
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
On March 22 2013 05:45 SC2Panda wrote: Is there some kind of "generel-BO" that I can use in every MU ? I'm new to SC2 and I first want to look at my mechanics and the basic stuff. Don't want to think about special BOs at the beginning. The way you play vs. zerg is very different than how you play vs. Terran or Protoss. What I mean by this is zerg has to choose whether to make units or workers while Terran and Protoss can make them at the same time. The only build that is decent in all 3 matchups would be 3 gate expand/pressure. 9 pylon (send probe to scout opponent chrono probes when the pylon finishes) 12 Gate (chrono probes after you make it) 14 Gas 16 Pylon Cyber core and a zealot when your gateway finishes. Chrono boost warp gate research and your first stalker and add a 2nd gas. Make a mothership core sentry then add 2 more gateways when warpgate research is half done. If your opponent has expanded make a proxy pylon and pressure him with a combination of sentries zealots and stalkers. If your opponent is still one base send a hallucinated pheonix in to see what he has. Throw down your expansion if you think you can defend it. Vs. Terran I would try to expand off 1 gateway producing the same units you did before. Add your 2 gateways and a 2nd gas after your expansion and follow it with a mothership core and a robotics facility afterwards. | ||
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GaliX
Germany380 Posts
I am getting more and more in trouble with good zerg in PvZ since I managed to beat most Terran atm in high Master. I just faced on ladder two times in a row a Zerg. Basicly He went both games for the same 2 Base Hydra into 4 Base Muta. I really got overrun by the Mutas hard. Both times a bearly survived the Hydra pressure and was contained so I tried to crank out a Colossi to be able to push him back. But as the second Colossi came out and I moved out, 18 Mutas went arrived at my base and it was instantly over. Anybody has in theory an Idea how to proper react? I mean you can't go stargate or mass stalker since the Hydras would overrun you if the switch to Mutas isn't arriving soon. I find this meta game super hard to deal with. Just in theory, how to react? | ||
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
On March 22 2013 06:22 GaliX wrote: Hey guys. I am getting more and more in trouble with good zerg in PvZ since I managed to beat most Terran atm in high Master. I just faced on ladder two times in a row a Zerg. Basicly He went both games for the same 2 Base Hydra into 4 Base Muta. I really got overrun by the Mutas hard. Both times a bearly survived the Hydra pressure and was contained so I tried to crank out a Colossi to be able to push him back. But as the second Colossi came out and I moved out, 18 Mutas went arrived at my base and it was instantly over. Anybody has in theory an Idea how to proper react? I mean you can't go stargate or mass stalker since the Hydras would overrun you if the switch to Mutas isn't arriving soon. I find this meta game super hard to deal with. Just in theory, how to react? I play dt harass ---> storm/chargelots because it beats both hydra and muta which i think is current metagame these days. The only problem i face is swarmhost but i normally transition into voidrays as i take my 3rd which helps. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
On March 22 2013 06:22 GaliX wrote: Hey guys. I am getting more and more in trouble with good zerg in PvZ since I managed to beat most Terran atm in high Master. I just faced on ladder two times in a row a Zerg. Basicly He went both games for the same 2 Base Hydra into 4 Base Muta. I really got overrun by the Mutas hard. Both times a bearly survived the Hydra pressure and was contained so I tried to crank out a Colossi to be able to push him back. But as the second Colossi came out and I moved out, 18 Mutas went arrived at my base and it was instantly over. Anybody has in theory an Idea how to proper react? I mean you can't go stargate or mass stalker since the Hydras would overrun you if the switch to Mutas isn't arriving soon. I find this meta game super hard to deal with. Just in theory, how to react? 2base hydra is not a very strong opening unless you opened very fast stargate, since they can prevent your third or even straight up kill you if you don't read it fast enough. Once they get more bases it's inevitable that they are going to tech switch, either adding roaches and vipers/infestors, corruptors, or mutas (and rarely swarm hosts). It's important to keep checking up on the zergs base with hallucinated phoenix so that once you get your third base secured you can transition for whatever he's building (in other words 18 mutas should never just "randomly" arrive). In any case, versus that composition you can just max out on stalker+ colossus + phoenix and kill the guy since his army is terrible in a straight-up fight. | ||
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
On March 22 2013 06:36 Erik.TheRed wrote: 2base hydra is not a very strong opening unless you opened very fast stargate, since they can prevent your third or even straight up kill you if you don't read it fast enough. Once they get more bases it's inevitable that they are going to tech switch, either adding roaches and vipers/infestors, corruptors, or mutas (and rarely swarm hosts). It's important to keep checking up on the zergs base with hallucinated phoenix so that once you get your third base secured you can transition for whatever he's building (in other words 18 mutas should never just "randomly" arrive). In any case, versus that composition you can just max out on stalker+ colossus + phoenix and kill the guy since his army is terrible in a straight-up fight. I think collosus are really weak in hots except when you know you are facing swarm host. Even then I feel like the speed of mutas and how crazy good vipers are makes them bad. A few blinding clouds and some abducts are your collosus stalker army is left with nothing.... You are right about 2 base hydra being very bad. If you know he's going 2 base hydra yeah collosus is very strong, but in general I don't think templar have any weakness because most ladder zerg are tired of making roaches.... | ||
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-Switch-
Canada506 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:15 priestnoob wrote: 1gate FE PvT build I copied from some GM: 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas 16 pylon 18 core 19 zealot 22 pylon 24 Sentry (CB) 26 Nex 27 Stalker (CB) 31 Gate x2 31 Gas 31 MSC (CB) 33 Pylon 34 Robo You basically don't probe scout the Terran unless it's a 4 player map and use your first 100 energy (~5:50, shortly before the robo) for a hallucinated scout. I think it's better to get a stalker before sentry simply because of reaper harass. | ||
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SC2Panda
Germany25 Posts
On March 22 2013 06:05 FreedomMurder wrote: The way you play vs. zerg is very different than how you play vs. Terran or Protoss. What I mean by this is zerg has to choose whether to make units or workers while Terran and Protoss can make them at the same time. The only build that is decent in all 3 matchups would be 3 gate expand/pressure. 9 pylon (send probe to scout opponent chrono probes when the pylon finishes) 12 Gate (chrono probes after you make it) 14 Gas 16 Pylon Cyber core and a zealot when your gateway finishes. Chrono boost warp gate research and your first stalker and add a 2nd gas. Make a mothership core sentry then add 2 more gateways when warpgate research is half done. If your opponent has expanded make a proxy pylon and pressure him with a combination of sentries zealots and stalkers. If your opponent is still one base send a hallucinated pheonix in to see what he has. Throw down your expansion if you think you can defend it. Vs. Terran I would try to expand off 1 gateway producing the same units you did before. Add your 2 gateways and a 2nd gas after your expansion and follow it with a mothership core and a robotics facility afterwards. Thanks for your help! I'll try these tips in my next games and hope I can improve step by step ! (: | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
PvT I find easier but I don't feel like my build is particularly efficient. I normally open colossus double forge but I don't work by a strict build order so things are always a little off. Is it worth getting a mothership core early on in PvT? It seems like gas is being wasted when it could be spent getting quicker upgrades and tech. ~ Mid masters | ||
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
On March 22 2013 09:14 Absentia wrote: What builds should I be doing in PvT and PvZ? I really struggle in PvZ, particularly when I try to open anything but forge/gate/cyber/robo/gates and go for colossus. PvT I find easier but I don't feel like my build is particularly efficient. I normally open colossus double forge but I don't work by a strict build order so things are always a little off. Is it worth getting a mothership core early on in PvT? It seems like gas is being wasted when it could be spent getting quicker upgrades and tech. ~ Mid masters In my opinion getting an msc early in PvT is great... I open stalker, msc, warpgate, then another stalker. using my first 2 chrono on probes and the rest on stalkers and the msc. You can deny the terran getting a low ground bunker, and stalkers with time warp eat marines. I normally do a lot of damage and get a perfect scout on what terran is doing. I'll copy and paste my PvZ build from a few pages earlier. It requires a lot of micro and multitasking but it is fun and rewarding to execute well. You essentially 3 stalker rush to force zerg to make units instead of drones. Go home when you see they have made a lot of zerglings or you think speed could be finishing soon. Use DT harass to bide time while you tech to storm, chargelots, and getting armour upgrades to make your zealots last. Once you have storm and 4 or so HT take your 3rd and throw down double stargate for voidrays. This build absolutely destroys muta (storm to bide time and pheonix are great in hots)and hydra play and does fairly well against swarm host if you scout it early and grab a robo for obs. I've got a great PvZ build if anyone is interested. 9 - Pylon (low ground at natural) 12 - Gate 14 - Gas 16 - Cyber Core, 2nd Gateway, Pylon Save your chrono after using first 2 on probes. Chrono out 3 stalkers (Use scouting probe to keep an eye on zerg gas timings so you know when to go home). Harass the zerg with the 3 stalkers picking off zerglings, overlords, queens, drones while forcing a huge overreaction from the zerg. At home throw down a twilight council, then a nexus, then a sentry, mothership core and finally a forge while keeping up probe production as much as possible. When you poke and see 10+ lings with your stalkers its time to go home(or if you are good enough to remember when they would have speed by from your scouting of the gas timing). Throw down DT shrine and plus 1 armour. Transition into charge, storm, and plus 2 armour. Take your 3rd as storm finishes or when you have 4+ templar with storm. Throw down 2 stargates and a robo(for observers and warp prisms only). Start double void ray production, +1 air and +1 shields. Use excess minerals on plenty of cannons, extra gateways, and zealot harass. If you forced a huge reaction from the zerg and don't feel like taking it into the late game you can simply do a blink stalker all in (With +1 since you didn't open forge the plus 2 timing is usually far too late, I normally started +2 but hit before it completed) This was my build in WoL and I had an 85% win rate at the masters level. I'm 17-1 at masters level in Hots with this build. It is definitely a great ladder build, but your opponent will learn how to deal with the original pressure better and better over time so probably not much use in tournies except a 1 time thing. Hopefully someone actually reads/tries this build! | ||
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
On March 22 2013 06:36 Erik.TheRed wrote: 2base hydra is not a very strong opening unless you opened very fast stargate, since they can prevent your third or even straight up kill you if you don't read it fast enough. Once they get more bases it's inevitable that they are going to tech switch, either adding roaches and vipers/infestors, corruptors, or mutas (and rarely swarm hosts). It's important to keep checking up on the zergs base with hallucinated phoenix so that once you get your third base secured you can transition for whatever he's building (in other words 18 mutas should never just "randomly" arrive). In any case, versus that composition you can just max out on stalker+ colossus + phoenix and kill the guy since his army is terrible in a straight-up fight. I'll agree with this, except for the stalker part. I'd rather have zealots and sentries to soak damage and deal with any lings since a good number of colossus will just overrun the hydras by themselves. It's all about scouting. You should be getting an immediate robotics bay in reaction to a fast hydralisk den, and you should be getting two or three stargates in reaction to seeing a spire. If he's on 4 bases, and you've only got 2 colossus after a 2-base hydralisk opening, then you're already clearly way behind. | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
Been doing a 2 gate stargate, phoenixes, into a robo for detection/immortals. Been finding that lots of phoenix with zealot/immortal/sentry support for stalkers works well against oracle harass but likely I'd have trouble against DT openings. I add a second stargate when I expand if they commit to voids and eventually twilight for charge/DT archons, for more harass and support. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On March 22 2013 09:28 FreedomMurder wrote: In my opinion getting an msc early in PvT is great... I open stalker, msc, warpgate, then another stalker. using my first 2 chrono on probes and the rest on stalkers and the msc. You can deny the terran getting a low ground bunker, and stalkers with time warp eat marines. I normally do a lot of damage and get a perfect scout on what terran is doing. I'll copy and paste my PvZ build from a few pages earlier. It requires a lot of micro and multitasking but it is fun and rewarding to execute well. You essentially 3 stalker rush to force zerg to make units instead of drones. Go home when you see they have made a lot of zerglings or you think speed could be finishing soon. Use DT harass to bide time while you tech to storm, chargelots, and getting armour upgrades to make your zealots last. Once you have storm and 4 or so HT take your 3rd and throw down double stargate for voidrays. This build absolutely destroys muta (storm to bide time and pheonix are great in hots)and hydra play and does fairly well against swarm host if you scout it early and grab a robo for obs. I've got a great PvZ build if anyone is interested. 9 - Pylon (low ground at natural) 12 - Gate 14 - Gas 16 - Cyber Core, 2nd Gateway, Pylon Save your chrono after using first 2 on probes. Chrono out 3 stalkers (Use scouting probe to keep an eye on zerg gas timings so you know when to go home). Harass the zerg with the 3 stalkers picking off zerglings, overlords, queens, drones while forcing a huge overreaction from the zerg. At home throw down a twilight council, then a nexus, then a sentry, mothership core and finally a forge while keeping up probe production as much as possible. When you poke and see 10+ lings with your stalkers its time to go home(or if you are good enough to remember when they would have speed by from your scouting of the gas timing). Throw down DT shrine and plus 1 armour. Transition into charge, storm, and plus 2 armour. Take your 3rd as storm finishes or when you have 4+ templar with storm. Throw down 2 stargates and a robo(for observers and warp prisms only). Start double void ray production, +1 air and +1 shields. Use excess minerals on plenty of cannons, extra gateways, and zealot harass. If you forced a huge reaction from the zerg and don't feel like taking it into the late game you can simply do a blink stalker all in (With +1 since you didn't open forge the plus 2 timing is usually far too late, I normally started +2 but hit before it completed) This was my build in WoL and I had an 85% win rate at the masters level. I'm 17-1 at masters level in Hots with this build. It is definitely a great ladder build, but your opponent will learn how to deal with the original pressure better and better over time so probably not much use in tournies except a 1 time thing. Hopefully someone actually reads/tries this build! When are you taking the rest of your gasses? | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
Returning sc2 protoss player from D3  Wanted to know if there was a thread people can point me to builds and openers for all 3 matchups? Thinking that openers have all changed to try and incorporate the mothership core, and probably more stuff around stargates with the new units? Maybe less Colossi builds in PvZ since there are vipers?? | ||
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
On March 22 2013 10:36 Absentia wrote: When are you taking the rest of your gasses? 2nd gas after your first stalker. Natural gases after you have decent saturation at your natural (12 probes or so). 3rd expansion gases should finish as the nexus does if you have the apm to time it that way. Sorry for the confusion I haven't written out that many build orders before. But I think its better to know the order of things rather than supply numbers cause shit can happen that messes you up. With this build your scouting has to be very active for example gas timings for retreating the 3 stalker rush, early pool reactions(if you scout a 6 sometimes you have time to cancel the gate and make a forge) and zerg 3rd base timings (you can opt out of this build and just 4gate if you scout a fast 3rd hatch as many zerg players play blind) | ||
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tEEYOUNEE
Canada13 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
On March 22 2013 12:50 igay wrote: hey i have a question about PvP. when both players are playing SG tech what do i build if he is building oracles and VR, do i build phoenix? and if he is going phoenix do i just build more than him? Yeah if he is building oracles and VR just keep building pheonix. If he builds pheonix it becomes this awkward air war. Upgrades surprisingly don't have that large an impact. The two most important things are pheonix count and eventually the range upgrade. If you find yourself down 2 pheonix or so early in the game i think the best option is to go for a gateway all in as its really hard to catch up to someone when they have the pheonix lead, you are kind of banking on them making a mistake. | ||
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