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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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nappeee
Finland169 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:06 tEEYOUNEE wrote: Okay I figured out a few builds to learn with for PvT and PvP but what should I do for PvZ? I can't ffe on most of the HOTS maps. You can ffe on every map except Belshir vestige. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Nipje
Netherlands20 Posts
In the PvP matchups i am struggeling a bit with my chronoboost timings. In this matchup i want to build my gateway at 13, gas at 14 and second gas after my first one (double gas opening). Then pylon at 16. I want to spend my chrono boosts effectively and i do not want a chronoboost active while i can not make a probe. I can not seem to get this timing right. Is there anyone that has a lot of experience with this opening and has figured out the timings? It is a stargate opening to be clear. | ||
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nappeee
Finland169 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:10 Teoita wrote: You can FFE on bel'shir vestige too actually. Just wall off like you would on Daybreak. Oh wow lol yeah you can. I was confused the first time i played that map and i just downvoted it and never played it again lol. So you can actually ffe on every map pretty easily. | ||
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TheQuiff
Scotland91 Posts
I know many have asked this but more focused on the unit. PvT, say you wanted to get out 1 gate 1stargate and expand. The terran goes make mines, how difficult is it to defend with this at this stage of the game? Thanks | ||
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Am0n3r
United States254 Posts
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Twiggs
United States600 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:24 Teoita wrote: Well it's been the go to middle of the road pvz build since 2010, i don't think that'll happen. In the worst case scenario imo zergs will learn timings to punish straight up colossus void ray (which wouldnt be half bad, deathballs are stupid in general) and we'll just go colossus/blink stalker instead. How do YOU break up the deathball in hots? In PvZ and PvT. What unit compositions, strategies and tactics do you use to do this. I'm looking for a more mobile, harassment focused play style that gets away from the deathball that I played in wol. Day 9 alluded to what i thought was the future of protoss in a daily a long time ago. He said he started using speed zealots in pvz and he said his personal preference for protoss is a fast placed play that sacrifices efficiency for non stop aggression. I've been waiting ever since to copy a pro on such a style because I'm not good enough to develop it myself Lol PS I wish speed zeals in sclI meant the same as it did in bw TT | ||
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
9 - Pylon (low ground at natural) 12 - Gate 14 - Gas 16 - Cyber Core, 2nd Gateway, Pylon Save your chrono after using first 2 on probes. Chrono out 3 stalkers (Use scouting probe to keep an eye on zerg gas timings so you know when to go home). Harass the zerg with the 3 stalkers picking off zerglings, overlords, queens, drones while forcing a huge overreaction from the zerg. At home throw down a twilight council, then a nexus, then a sentry, mothership core and finally a forge while keeping up probe production as much as possible. When you poke and see 10+ lings with your stalkers its time to go home(or if you are good enough to remember when they would have speed by from your scouting of the gas timing). Throw down DT shrine and plus 1 armour. Transition into charge, storm, and plus 2 armour. Take your 3rd as storm finishes or when you have 4+ templar with storm. Throw down 2 stargates and a robo(for observers and warp prisms only). Start double void ray production, +1 air and +1 shields. Use excess minerals on plenty of cannons, extra gateways, and zealot harass. If you forced a huge reaction from the zerg and don't feel like taking it into the late game you can simply do a blink stalker all in (With +1 since you didn't open forge the plus 2 timing is usually far too late, I normally started +2 but hit before it completed) This was my build in WoL and I had an 85% win rate at the masters level. I'm 17-1 at masters level in Hots with this build. It is definitely a great ladder build, but your opponent will learn how to deal with the original pressure better and better over time so probably not much use in tournies except a 1 time thing. Hopefully someone actually reads/tries this build! | ||
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hellokittySC2
United States395 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:19 Am0n3r wrote: Mothership in late PvZ, thoughts? I used it mainly with a skytoss to take out swarm hosts and let my stalkers get close to broodlords without taking any damage from spawns? really pointless, you would rather spend that money on an extra tempest or void ray or high templar, zerg late game has a lot of overseers anyways. you are better off not wasting $ on that piece of crap, plus the energy restarts back to like 50, which is bs. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Fucking stupid deathballs: colossus void ray, infestor broodlord in wol. You just sit there wanking off until you are maxed on an invincible army then amove. "Reasonable" deathballs: Rain's PvT on Antiga vs Taeja, summer 2012. Rain's goal was still to defend until his max and then crush taeja, but he did so by storm dropping, controlling the center of the map at key timings, and limiting taeja's economy as much as possible. Great game to study. Same goes for bw mech tvp: the terran doesn't just sit there doing nothing, he runs around the map with vultures harassing, delaying nexi, scouting and laying maps all game long. Both those playstyles require more than just maxing out and then winning. As far as "breaking up deathballs" and lategame play, kcdc's pvt post is very well worth reading even though it's about WoL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370106 | ||
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:21 R3demption wrote: How do YOU break up the deathball in hots? In PvZ and PvT. What unit compositions, strategies and tactics do you use to do this. I'm looking for a more mobile, harassment focused play style that gets away from the deathball that I played in wol. Day 9 alluded to what i thought was the future of protoss in a daily a long time ago. He said he started using speed zealots in pvz and he said his personal preference for protoss is a fast placed play that sacrifices efficiency for non stop aggression. I've been waiting ever since to copy a pro on such a style because I'm not good enough to develop it myself Lol PS I wish speed zeals in sclI meant the same as it did in bw TT The build i mentioned above is exactly what you're looking for. Endless DT , speed zealot harass while building up an unbeatable army of voidrays, tempest and high templar. | ||
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Twiggs
United States600 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:37 Teoita wrote: Deathballs aren't bad per se, it depends on how you define "deathball". Fucking stupid deathballs: colossus void ray, infestor broodlord in wol. You just sit there wanking off until you are maxed on an invincible army then amove. "Reasonable" deathballs: Rain's PvT on Antiga vs Taeja, summer 2012. Rain's goal was still to defend until his max and then crush taeja, but he did so by storm dropping, controlling the center of the map at key timings, and limiting taeja's economy as much as possible. Great game to study. Same goes for bw mech tvp: the terran doesn't just sit there doing nothing, he runs around the map with vultures harassing, delaying nexi, scouting and laying maps all game long. Both those playstyles require more than just maxing out and then winning. As far as "breaking up deathballs" and lategame play, kcdc's pvt post is very well worth reading even though it's about WoL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370106 Thanks, will check out the game and guide. Have any games in mind for PvZ?  Also your brood war reference is interesting. It seems the roles are flipped and we (protoss) go for the mid game doom push like bw terran mech but you're absolutely right the terrans never just sat there. They were active. I wouldn't mind playing such a style (the doom push) if I could be active with drops or other units. Basically, whats our most effective vulture harass?  I think pros are figuring that out still.I'll watch rain thanks! | ||
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Twiggs
United States600 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:48 FreedomMurder wrote: The build i mentioned above is exactly what you're looking for. Endless DT , speed zealot harass while building up an unbeatable army of voidrays, tempest and high templar. Thank you! I saw your post earlier and put in a mental reminder to try it. DTS are my favorite unit. Not cause they are sometimes cheesy but because lore and asthetics | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On March 22 2013 01:56 R3demption wrote: Thanks, will check out the game and guide. Have any games in mind for PvZ? Also your brood war reference is interesting. It seems the roles are flipped and we (protoss) go for the mid game doom push like bw terran mech but you're absolutely right the terrans never just sat there. They were active. I wouldn't mind playing such a style (the doom push) if I could be active with drops or other units. Basically, whats our most effective vulture harass? I think pros are figuring that out still.I'll watch rain thanks! Not that i can think of. In WoL PvZ, harass was either non existant (hello Cruncher!) or far more "extreme" (like HerO's play), so it's a bit different. One tip from monk's article on Brown vs Losira though was "double robo all the way", not necessarily for extra Colossi as much as for obs/warp prisms for map control. | ||
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Jawcub
Sweden10 Posts
On March 21 2013 22:40 Qwantz wrote: I'm completely lost at PvP, I manage PvZ and PvT quite well but PvP is just horrible. Any safe opening? Oracle opening is quite safe? | ||
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SteveNick
United States304 Posts
Where do I find high level HOTS replays that I can watch? | ||
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Jawcub
Sweden10 Posts
On March 14 2013 03:45 tHeWayy wrote: I have trouble with zerg who goes swarm host/oversir/hydra : they just sniper my observers and protect their swarm host until locusts kill all my army  And how can you go stargate opener against terran ? They just borrow windows mines everywhere so you can't go out of your base There is tons of builds out there for stargate opening vs terran. Check Mc's run in MLG. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On March 21 2013 18:07 Wombat_NI wrote: I haven't really figured out a reliable counter-composition to this that I can get out in time. If I suspect that kind of path is being pursued I make sure I rush storm instead of Collosi for the reasons you outlined. Templar have certain advantages, their AoE is a bit more reliable because they're harder physically to abduct due to their size, they have feedback and there tends to be more of them. Really it's a game of positioning and flanking. I've had some success with rushing a more chargelot archon/templar mix with sprinkling of immortals and sentries and hitting before that composition is super strong, but I don't think it's a reliable approach. My only other semi-consistent strat is continually delaying the engagement until his swarm hosts aren't covered by the hydras, and sending my phoenixes to their likely deaths to lift the Hosts. From my limited experience, the problems with that army is that the DPS is massive once the locusts get in range of your stuff, the hydras still pack a big punch but their numbers thin really quickly if you hit a few storms. If he's not terrible he'll snipe your observers so I try to use hallucinations to get that kind of positional information. Yeah, after playing against it more I had some limited success with chargelot+archon and fewer stalkers and colossi... like just stop at 2 colossi because you will need at least a few to deal with locusts eating your buildings. Also had a little luck with just skipping templar and getting literally 8-10 colossi on 3 base and spending excess minerals on chargelots; they can't abduct everything and that many colossi neutralizes the swarm hosts nicely. | ||
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wyde19
Russian Federation1 Post
I dunno where is the problem. intro: i realized that i should build workers const and produce const. Lol, i mean i knew that but i didnt, cuz didn't realize. So, i played vs AI all the way through to expert. Once i've reached that i went to ladder. KR ladder. they rushed me alot, but i were able win them towards silver league after all. And there i went unlucky. IDK, but i do everything like i did, but i can't win. My 3 gap between wins and loses transformed into 10. I decided to go play with AI, but AI pwned me aswell. IDK what to do. http://rghost.ru/44663078 Here is my reppack, can you advise me something? There are some bad replays w/o even good macro though, it is because of depression i have 2 days already in sc2 part of my life. Probably i think i am going too deeply in eco w/o army so opponent punishes me, but i loosing too much 4 that. Thanks for your help. upd: download is the first dark button | ||
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Nipje
Netherlands20 Posts
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