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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On October 06 2013 11:49 Whatson wrote: What's with protoss and all-ins. Why do you guys feel like you need to all-in every game? It's boring getting to the late game and just going A-move.  | ||
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Sloxify
United States15 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
PvZ: i like a fairly non standard build that nony uses a lot, basically it abuses recall to keep the zerg on low econ/tech while you stay for quite a lot on blink stalker/immortal. Here's a link to a fpvod: | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
As protoss, if you are using it - unbind F2 or move it to a less convenient hotkey This is the worst hotkey to get used to. You CANNOT play with this hotkey, especially in PvT. you will always select your scouting, harassment and defensive units. The only time you may use this, is when someone is pushing you with an unbeatable force, and you really need ALL your units otherwise you die - but then again why arent they hotkeyed. Get out of the bad habbit of this hotkey, it will make you suck more than you do! | ||
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
I only have one problem.Widow mine drops in the early game,even if i expect or know they're coming. I sometimes lose more probes than i should but that's not the problem.It doesn't matter if the terran doesn't do any damage at all because while i'm defending i don't build workers,pylons or additional gates and my upgrades and tech buildings are delayed for quite some time.So i guess my problem is that i have to use my apm to do things i don't want to at that point and later when his push comes i have no storm,and 1500 mins with no way of spending them. So i was wondering what is the optimal defense setup(like unit positioning and hotkeys) when you expect a widow mine drop(or a delayed double medivac drop)so that you can go back to your normal play as fast as possible after you defend. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On October 07 2013 22:44 weikor wrote: I just ended up helping a few guys in gold / platinum league and found a big mistake, this isnt so much a question but should be in HUGE writing at the top of the thread. As protoss, if you are using it - unbind F2 or move it to a less convenient hotkey This is the worst hotkey to get used to. You CANNOT play with this hotkey, especially in PvT. you will always select your scouting, harassment and defensive units. The only time you may use this, is when someone is pushing you with an unbeatable force, and you really need ALL your units otherwise you die - but then again why arent they hotkeyed. Get out of the bad habbit of this hotkey, it will make you suck more than you do! it's not as bad of a crutch as you think. I use it constantly and am still a top 8 masters player. Sure you won't go pro or anything using it but that's not exactly what most of us are aiming for. If you get used to it and know how to play with it, it's not horrible for low APM players like myself. | ||
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States764 Posts
What is the best way to "reset" yourself to figure things out. It seemed every build I was doing stopped working overnight....  | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On October 07 2013 23:33 DifuntO wrote: So,PvT is my best matchup,i like macro games and i'm very comfortable with almost anything. I only have one problem.Widow mine drops in the early game,even if i expect or know they're coming. I sometimes lose more probes than i should but that's not the problem.It doesn't matter if the terran doesn't do any damage at all because while i'm defending i don't build workers,pylons or additional gates and my upgrades and tech buildings are delayed for quite some time.So i guess my problem is that i have to use my apm to do things i don't want to at that point and later when his push comes i have no storm,and 1500 mins with no way of spending them. So i was wondering what is the optimal defense setup(like unit positioning and hotkeys) when you expect a widow mine drop(or a delayed double medivac drop)so that you can go back to your normal play as fast as possible after you defend. I like to scout the Terran nice and early to see what his gas timing is like. On 2 player maps I'll send the guy who builds my Gateway (on 13) but on 4 player maps I will 9 scout after Pylon. My build is usually something like Gateway, Cyber, Expand, Robo Forge, tech choice (colo or templar). If I see: Gas then rax: I automatiacally assume widow mine drop. Keep the first observer at home and 1 cannon in each mineral line as soon as forge finishes. If he went gas before rax his econ is delayed enough that you're not behind doing this. Rax then gas: If he does this and sends an early reaper, I send my first observer to his base knowing that a widow mine drop is delayed a little. If there is gas but no reaper I assume some sort of early drop harass and do the 1 cannon in each mineral line thing. I usually try to keep an observer along each drop path, and if you can't afford the gas for whatever reason sometimes I'll just put a pylon there. On maps like Belshir Vestige where there is limited movement space along the sides of the map by air, it works just fine. On a map like Akilon Wastes, put a pylon in the corner of your base and an obs a little bit further out so you can see the drop coming from further away. Put the cannon near the side of the minerals you think he will drop from - that gets you an extra shot or two. Use your photon overcharge as soon as you see the drop coming to maximize the number of hits it gets. It's okay to use overcharge because if he is doing this kind of drop he wont have much army to attack you with. That's pretty much all I can say to help you. The rest of it is just seeing it on your minimap and reacting in time. You want to pull probes before the mine starts burrowing. Quick tip - if you box your workers and pull them away AFTER the mine has started burrowing, you're just making it worse. You're better off not moving your workers (they will be less bunched up and likely you'll lose 4 tops). Another pro-tip. Usually it's better to sacrifice one or two workers than risk losing 11 at a time (I've lost as much as 18 workers from 1 mine). Pull workers and just leave 1 behind to tank the widow mine hit. Just know that if you defend a widow mine drop without losing anything you're way ahead, even if you built 2 cannons. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On October 08 2013 00:37 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: I seem lost in every matchup suddenly. Things not going well for me. I'm diamond, and have been playing golds on ladder.... What is the best way to "reset" yourself to figure things out. It seemed every build I was doing stopped working overnight.... Go play unranked games and just turtle to 3 bases in PvT and PvP. 4 bases in PvZ. Just work on macro, scouting, and defending. Those are the most important things IMO. Work some harass in here and there but don't attack until you're at 170+ supply. I find this to be the best reset. Once you've got that down, pick 1-2 allins and practice them over and over and over until you can do them perfectly. Once you've gotten your mojo back and are winning some games, go back to ranked! | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On October 07 2013 23:33 DifuntO wrote: So,PvT is my best matchup,i like macro games and i'm very comfortable with almost anything. I only have one problem.Widow mine drops in the early game,even if i expect or know they're coming. I sometimes lose more probes than i should but that's not the problem.It doesn't matter if the terran doesn't do any damage at all because while i'm defending i don't build workers,pylons or additional gates and my upgrades and tech buildings are delayed for quite some time.So i guess my problem is that i have to use my apm to do things i don't want to at that point and later when his push comes i have no storm,and 1500 mins with no way of spending them. So i was wondering what is the optimal defense setup(like unit positioning and hotkeys) when you expect a widow mine drop(or a delayed double medivac drop)so that you can go back to your normal play as fast as possible after you defend. I want to direct you to some of my blog notes: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=423048 http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=423904 Basically, I prefer to not probe scout at all in this matchup, instead relying on a MSC scout. If you don't feel safe doing a direct MSC scout, you can do a zealot/stalker poke to cover for the MSC. If I scout a starport, I will automatically throw down a cannon in my main mineral line and defend my main with stalkers/sentries and use photon overcharge on the natural. I don't think you need 2 cannons unless you scout banshees; 2 cannons severely delays your extra gates. Some people swear it's better to have your units at your natural because nexus cannon DPS isn't enough to kill stuff off, but I think you can do it either way. Also, having your units at the natural allows you to save nexus cannon for later if your opponent just does a small marine/mine poke. Hotkeys: I generally put my stalkers/sentries on one hotkey and my MSC + observer on another. If you're using a gateway opening (2-3 early gates, no early forge), you just need to have a high number of stalkers (4-6) and 2 observers hanging around your base. It's usually best to leave your units at your natural and use nexus cannon to push away any aggression in the main. As far as multi-tasking goes, that's just something you need to get better at. Obviously, having a good game plan and a pre-determined reaction to the drops helps a lot because you don't need to spend time thinking about crisis management during the game. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On October 07 2013 23:33 DifuntO wrote: So,PvT is my best matchup,i like macro games and i'm very comfortable with almost anything. I only have one problem.Widow mine drops in the early game,even if i expect or know they're coming. I sometimes lose more probes than i should but that's not the problem.It doesn't matter if the terran doesn't do any damage at all because while i'm defending i don't build workers,pylons or additional gates and my upgrades and tech buildings are delayed for quite some time.So i guess my problem is that i have to use my apm to do things i don't want to at that point and later when his push comes i have no storm,and 1500 mins with no way of spending them. So i was wondering what is the optimal defense setup(like unit positioning and hotkeys) when you expect a widow mine drop(or a delayed double medivac drop)so that you can go back to your normal play as fast as possible after you defend. I've been doing Rain's build a lot, so if I scout early gas and don't see reapers I generally put a cannon in my main mineral line, it makes defending the widow mine drops MUCH easier. More importantly it also defends a lot of other stuff terran can be doing with a gas opening (makes other drops easier to hold since they can't just walk into the mineral line willy nilly, helps with cloak banshees if those are out for some reason, etc.) You really can't skimp on the cannon if they go early gas, unless you can confirm that it was only for a reaper or a reaper + reactor. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
I've been finding it easier to chrono out a stalker and mothership core instead (assuming you don't lose your core or gate) | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:34 mizU wrote: Is it still a good idea to counter cannon rushes with a defensive forge? I've been finding it easier to chrono out a stalker and mothership core instead (assuming you don't lose your core or gate) its an option depending on the situation. But yes the much better option is to just have your first pylon/gateway/core buried deep in your base where it cant be hit and get PO asap | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:34 mizU wrote: Is it still a good idea to counter cannon rushes with a defensive forge? I've been finding it easier to chrono out a stalker and mothership core instead (assuming you don't lose your core or gate) Generally, the stalker and msc is a better option. You're more ahead after you hold it for tech reasons (instead of being on the same tech and having no offensive options), and it's a more reliable hold since you won't be late on your cannons. You're also able to clear the cannons out faster to leave your own base instead of simply stalling them. | ||
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States764 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
You can find that link in both TL Strategy Portal and Recommended threads stickies on top of the forum btw... | ||
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dire1989
Peru3 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On October 09 2013 10:52 Rickyvalle21 wrote: How am I able to scout a terran who walls. One of the responses was to use zealot stalker mothershipcore and poke for scouting information but i feel this can be abit unsafe due to possibility of proxy widow mine eg. Naniwa vs MMA on newkirk precinct. Is there an alternate way to approach this? keep an eye on the barracks. Marine/reaper/reactor/etc tells you all you need to know at least that early. | ||
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
On October 08 2013 00:37 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: I seem lost in every matchup suddenly. Things not going well for me. I'm diamond, and have been playing golds on ladder.... What is the best way to "reset" yourself to figure things out. It seemed every build I was doing stopped working overnight.... I'm going to assume that your builds aren't cheesy allins and I'm going to assume that your builds are fairly standard. If you dropped that much it probably isn't your builds but probably just your control of the game. ask yourself if you gaming setup has changed at all, if you watch your minimap less, if you have less mouse control, if you aren't being active with your units or scouting, if you have any issues with sleep or energy that makes you not put enough into the game, etc. This seems like a general slump than a specific thing, considering that you should be able to kill a gold player as long as your'e spending your money decently well. I know for me I need to have good sleep and be in a certain position to play most optimally, as well as remind myself to look at the minimap | ||
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