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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
On September 26 2013 01:24 Mertz wrote:
Hey I am having a really hard time figuring out what I am suppose to chronoboost. Currently I have focused all of my chrono on the my nexi till they are all 24/24 and 3/3, then I switch to my forges. However I tend to get over saturated before I am ready to take a 3rd base, maybe I should take an earlier 3rd? Or should I focus my chrono on robo or gateways?
Oversaturation isn't a big deal. You usually want to shoot for 60 probes by 10 minutes anyways. Ideally though, you should oversaturate your natural nexus and leave your main at 16-18 max, so that you can transfer your probes and travel the least amount of time to your newly completed third. The more probes you overmake, the more quickly your third will be saturated, and the bigger influx of income you'll experience. Unless you KNOW your opponent is going to attack before you can benefit from a third (i.e. attacks before 10 minutes), then you should cut probes and delay the third. But if you do this blindly every game, you're going to fall behind to standard 3rd timings from an opponent.
As for chronoboosting, your priorities are as follows:
Colossus > Unit upgrades (extended thermal lance, storm, charge, blink) > Weapon/Armor upgrades > Nexi (before saturation)
By the time you start colossus (or storm), you shouldn't be chronoboosting probes anymore. You'll be very close to full saturation on three base if you''ve been on the ball with producing and chronoboosting probes through the early game, and theres way too much to chronoboost all at once.
Check out vods of Rain, but also note his probe count and when he stops chronoboosting probes all together as he's researching 4+ upgrades all at once.
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Austria24422 Posts
On September 26 2013 03:33 Sated wrote:Does anyone remember the fast third into Blink Stalker timing that  JangBi did in WoL? Has anyone done something like that recently? I've been trying something similar, and I want something from HotS to compare it to. Here is a semi-decent example of what I mean: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4123702I use a 1 Gate FE instead of a FFE, and I start warping in from 10 Gateways with Blink and +2 finished at ~12:00. This compares with ~11:00 to 11:30 from WoL FFE builds that follow a similar idea, so I think I should be able to hit a little faster. Should I be getting less Probes to hit faster..? In any case, it seems quite strong. Won quite a few games with it :D
Do you mean the Seed build? Only time I can remember it being used in HotS is by HerO in WCS America S1 against Suppy. Seemed to be the same build that was popular on Entombed -> FFE with +1 started, 3rd off one gateway while poking and denying scouting with 2stalkers and mothership core. Suppy had no idea what was going on until the timing hit and he just tapped out the second he saw it.
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On September 26 2013 05:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 03:33 Sated wrote:Does anyone remember the fast third into Blink Stalker timing that JangBi did in WoL? Has anyone done something like that recently? I've been trying something similar, and I want something from HotS to compare it to. Here is a semi-decent example of what I mean: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4123702I use a 1 Gate FE instead of a FFE, and I start warping in from 10 Gateways with Blink and +2 finished at ~12:00. This compares with ~11:00 to 11:30 from WoL FFE builds that follow a similar idea, so I think I should be able to hit a little faster. Should I be getting less Probes to hit faster..? In any case, it seems quite strong. Won quite a few games with it :D Do you mean the Seed build? Only time I can remember it being used in HotS is by HerO in WCS America S1 against Suppy. Seemed to be the same build that was popular on Entombed -> FFE with +1 started, 3rd off one gateway while poking and denying scouting with 2stalkers and mothership core. Suppy had no idea what was going on until the timing hit and he just tapped out the second he saw it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352807
He means this; I'm not sure if you're talking about the same build.
As for the original post, I'm also quite interested as I thought of this while sitting in the train. I'm quite interested in trying the build again now that I've sorted out some mechanics issues.
Edit: Wow, ninja'd hardcore.
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Austria24422 Posts
On September 26 2013 05:50 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 05:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 26 2013 03:33 Sated wrote:Does anyone remember the fast third into Blink Stalker timing that JangBi did in WoL? Has anyone done something like that recently? I've been trying something similar, and I want something from HotS to compare it to. Here is a semi-decent example of what I mean: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4123702I use a 1 Gate FE instead of a FFE, and I start warping in from 10 Gateways with Blink and +2 finished at ~12:00. This compares with ~11:00 to 11:30 from WoL FFE builds that follow a similar idea, so I think I should be able to hit a little faster. Should I be getting less Probes to hit faster..? In any case, it seems quite strong. Won quite a few games with it :D Do you mean the Seed build? Only time I can remember it being used in HotS is by HerO in WCS America S1 against Suppy. Seemed to be the same build that was popular on Entombed -> FFE with +1 started, 3rd off one gateway while poking and denying scouting with 2stalkers and mothership core. Suppy had no idea what was going on until the timing hit and he just tapped out the second he saw it. I mean the build that JangBi showcased in Proleague: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352807I don't know if someone else did it first, but I remembered that game and that guide being the closest to what I want to get benchmarks for. I'll see if I can dig up the game you're talking about, sounds like the right kinda thing. Thanks 
Oh, no that's a different build. I've never seen that used again actually. Jangbi's build actually transitions into pretty much anything as far as I can tell and he just decided to go +2 blink. Both Seed's build and HerO's variation of it are dedicated to the +2 followup attack from the start. HerO just chrono's out two stalkers to deny scouting and contain his opponent while Jangbi keeps pumping them out to force units and possibly snipe queens. I don't see why it shouldn't be viable, I guess zerg could skip the roach warren and throw down a hydra den in response, knowing that your colossus tech would be delayed by the continued investment in stalkers so it might be harder to hold counteraggression on your third with just gateway units.
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Italy12246 Posts
Those particular 3base pushes are all-in anyway, who cares about holding off counter-aggression 
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United States4883 Posts
Random question that I know defies the OP a bit:
What is the most common variant of stargate openings in PvP? I assume it would be something like 1-gate -> stargate -> 3-gate -> expand, but I'm not sure exactly about the correct order of gateway units out of the first gateway and how to safely scout and get an expand up. Most pro games are kind of complete BS all-ins right now and the last PvP stargate guide on TL is from WoL, so it's hard to get a good read on a macro-oriented stargate opener for HotS.
Any help and especially any VoD links are greatly appreciated!
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On September 27 2013 12:50 SC2John wrote:
Random question that I know defies the OP a bit:
What is the most common variant of stargate openings in PvP? I assume it would be something like 1-gate -> stargate -> 3-gate -> expand, but I'm not sure exactly about the correct order of gateway units out of the first gateway and how to safely scout and get an expand up. Most pro games are kind of complete BS all-ins right now and the last PvP stargate guide on TL is from WoL, so it's hard to get a good read on a macro-oriented stargate opener for HotS.
Any help and especially any VoD links are greatly appreciated!
Well are you planning on doing Oracle -> phx / phx only / oracle -> void? Each one take a different amount of units and buildings to stay safe.
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What's the best way to punish a Zerg that goes for a super fast 3rd hatch around 3:30 or so? Not 4-Gate right?
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Italy12246 Posts
If you aren't opening FFE you can't punish 3hatch before pool. If you are opening FFE, cannon rush him.
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If in pvz, I open 1g fe zealots pressure around 6~7 min and kill zerg's 3rd hatch, how much ahead is protoss in this situation? What kind of advantage does protoss have? I am confused because i dont think protoss has any economy or tech advantage in this situation.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 03 2013 05:56 OPDream wrote:
If in pvz, I open 1g fe zealots pressure around 6~7 min and kill zerg's 3rd hatch, how much ahead is protoss in this situation? What kind of advantage does protoss have? I am confused because i dont think protoss has any economy or tech advantage in this situation.
If you kept your units alive, you're actually way ahead as toss. It depends on how much you invested into the attack. If it's just a pressure that gets his third and you can recall or just walk away, you're super far ahead. The issue with the third is that he can't get saturation above 40 drones on minerals and you stop his 5th and 6th gas, it's not so much the fact that you are mining more than him. Zerg needs that income to deal with the fact that your units are better than his, so he needs more stuff. You'd have a tech advantage and he'd have fewer larva. It's a huge advantage. If you do a super heavy attack, kill the third but lose your whole army, then you're not exactly ahead, and might be about to die to a counter.
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I've been going for blink expands lately, generally starting with 3 gate blink and if it gets scouted, then I throw up a nexus as soon as it does and contain with blink/MSC. If not, I go for the all in.
Is this viable or are the people I'm playing just really bad? I generally follow up with a +2 chargelot archon timing if I got for the nexus.
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Italy12246 Posts
Yeah it's fine (i assume you're talking about PvT). It's really map dependant though, and you are kinda banking on the terran overrreacting, leaving his low ground and getting siege tanks. It's kinda risky but it's reasonable.
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On October 03 2013 20:26 Teoita wrote:
Yeah it's fine (i assume you're talking about PvT). It's really map dependant though, and you are kinda banking on the terran overrreacting, leaving his low ground and getting siege tanks. It's kinda risky but it's reasonable.
Usually they'll scout me not warping in more stalkers, but still can't go low ground because of timewarp.
So I end up containing with about 6-9 stalkers and MSC while teching at home. Forge, charge, DTs.
Then I just leave when medivacs come out.
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Italy12246 Posts
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just ran into a zerg that built hatch on my nat then cancelled it for an evo, making it impossible to get any sort of second nexus. what do you do in that situation? doesnt really put him behind that much
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On October 04 2013 02:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
just ran into a zerg that built hatch on my nat then cancelled it for an evo, making it impossible to get any sort of second nexus. what do you do in that situation? doesnt really put him behind that much
Throw a pylon at his nat. If you can , add gate or canon to that pylon( depend how you open ofc)
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EPT
