EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 182
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Mertz
United States11 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On October 09 2013 20:54 Mertz wrote: Hey I seem to do fine in my PvP Match ups with the exception of when my opponent opens stargate and plays a standard game with it. My army composition is usually zealot, immortal, archon heavy, and with the lack of anti air it doesn't do well against voidrays and phoenixes. What should I do in order to react to a stargate opening. I can hold the 1 base stargate pressure, but whenever we transfer to the mid game where their voidray counts becomes too much, I become lost. The key unit against void rays are archons and if they really mass voidrays you should add templar with storm to your composition. Stalkers, sure. But not too many. You can go easier on the immortals since they won't add much to your army and stay on more gateway units. Chargelot/archon/storm/some stalkers to clean up damaged void rays. I addition you'll find that their army is highly expensive and immobile so you could exploit warp prisms and expands aggressively. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On October 09 2013 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote: The key unit against void rays are archons and if they really mass voidrays you should add templar with storm to your composition. Stalkers, sure. But not too many. You can go easier on the immortals since they won't add much to your army and stay on more gateway units. Chargelot/archon/storm/some stalkers to clean up damaged void rays. I addition you'll find that their army is highly expensive and immobile so you could exploit warp prisms and expands aggressively. This is pretty much spot on. The only thing I would emphasize is the expanding aggressively. If you're doing immortal/archon/chargelot, you should definitely take your 3rd before additional gateways. | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
It hit at 7:30 with 2 immortals a handful of sentries and about 6 zealots | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On October 10 2013 06:59 Aveng3r wrote: when going proxy robo into immortal zealot sentry all in how does terran hold this? Like I need an example from someone who has unsuccessfully tried it. It hit at 7:30 with 2 immortals a handful of sentries and about 6 zealots if the terran scouts it? if the terran opens cc first? or if the terran knows exactly what's coming? you need to include more detail than that | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States763 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States763 Posts
On October 11 2013 03:48 Teoita wrote: Nop, vs mutas you always need phoenixes. Eventually blink/templar just doesn't cut it. Even when you don't open with stargate? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On October 10 2013 06:59 Aveng3r wrote: when going proxy robo into immortal zealot sentry all in how does terran hold this? Like I need an example from someone who has unsuccessfully tried it. It hit at 7:30 with 2 immortals a handful of sentries and about 6 zealots Basically comes down to scouting it and pulling SCVs for repair in advance as well as building 4 or so bunkers so that P runs out of FF. The push usually doesnt come with an observer so widow mines are really good at delaying it. Terran basically just needs to stay alive until stim/medivacs finish then they roflstomp the Protoss. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On October 11 2013 03:45 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: I'm coming across alot of Zergs doing that 2 bse muta play. Been trying to counter that with blink stalkers and archons. Is that the best way if I'm stuck on 2 bases? If I see 2 base muta I stay on 2 bases and make Phoenixes. No need to move out. Once you have phoenixes to defend your mineral line you can go kill the Zerg. 2 base muta is only good if it's not scouted in time, IMO. | ||
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Ravenoz
Germany16 Posts
here is the replay: http://drop.sc/361912 i dont know what exactly went wrong. he harassed me, i harassed him. i was behind in upgrades though, but i dont think it would have mattered in the big fight. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On October 11 2013 03:45 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: I'm coming across alot of Zergs doing that 2 bse muta play. Been trying to counter that with blink stalkers and archons. Is that the best way if I'm stuck on 2 bases? You cannot play against mutalisks with stalkers and archons without at least three bases, and even then you can't defend it with that for long. If you aren't going to all-in quickly and base trade him, you absolutely have to get phoenix. Stalkers don't do enough damage and aren't sufficiently mobile vs HOTS mutas, even with blink. Archons are too easily magic boxxed, aren't mobile enough, and are too big making it difficult for other units to get around them and assist. High Templar with storm don't do enough damage to kill them, and they heal too quickly for storm to really fend them off like it did in WoL. And even in WoL when these units worked, you needed a minimum of 3 bases to have enough gas. You cannot defend against muta from zerg on two bases as toss unless you have phoenix out, you have to all-in and base trade or expand immediately. It's the main reason stargate openers are so common in PvZ at the pro level: they want the stargate out in case of a muta switch so they can go into phoenix. | ||
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Chaser808
24 Posts
I know that's Z strength is tech switching, but how can P possibly deal with this switch?? There's simply not enough time. Before mutas were buffed, P could use a variety of anti-muta units to put together a decent anti-Z ground switch when it happened (blink stalkers and archons from HTs with storm). We all know the only real answer to muta is phoenix, but going that route is basically asking/setting us up for an ultra ling switch. I have been going full skytoss now because of this issue. At least full skytoss can counter both mutas and heavy ground/ultras, in time for the switches. Any other ideas? | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
or go phoenix/dt temporarily as you try to get a stronger economy where you can transition into archon/immortal | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:17 Chaser808 wrote: In PvZ, I've played a few games where the Z goes heavy muta despite my 2-3 stargate phoenix production. I'm basically funneled into going mass phoenix to stay alive and deal with the high number of mutas. Eventually the Z dumps the mutas into my phoenix, and remaxes on Ultra ling. Now I have a ton of useless phoenix and not enuff anti-ultra ling army, so the Z basically crushes 2-3 bases (which is crippling in itself) until I have a good enough counter army. If they go to my main and tech that's GG right there. I know that's Z strength is tech switching, but how can P possibly deal with this switch?? There's simply not enough time. Before mutas were buffed, P could use a variety of anti-muta units to put together a decent anti-Z ground switch when it happened (blink stalkers and archons from HTs with storm). We all know the only real answer to muta is phoenix, but going that route is basically asking/setting us up for an ultra ling switch. I have been going full skytoss now because of this issue. At least full skytoss can counter both mutas and heavy ground/ultras, in time for the switches. Any other ideas? Keep scouting, be aware that such tech switches can occur, and remember not to abandon your ground army for pure phoenix. Building walls are exceptional in these situations, since your mobile phoenix mean your ground army doesn't need to be mobile. Colossi synergize extremely well with phoenix, so you shouldn't dump all your gas into phoenix. Once you have phoenix range out, you don't really need a lot of phoenix to deal with them. In my games lately, I've been sticking on just the one stargate vs mass muta, 6-10 phoenix with range is all I ever really need. If they really commit to it, I use phoenix kiting to delay them while doing zealot runbys to make them regret committing while stalkers come to back the phoenix up. Don't forget to get +1 weapons on the phoenix against it if they commit to mutas (more than just 8-12). Honestly, you just need to keep scouting and make the minimal anti-muta defense you can get away with while still focusing on your ground army. Remember that mutas are expensive, and if you're constantly poking with zealots and warp prisms, they shouldn't be able to get a lot of extra bases up, so they can't afford to suicide the mutas: thus a minimal defense is sufficient. If you overcommit to phoenixes to defend, they can just take 3 extra bases and run you over. Cannons and the msc are a godsend for this: you can leave your army in your most vulnerable base, keep scouting up on the map, keep your phoenixes ready to defend mutas, and have your msc ready for photon overcharge or recall to defend multiple locations. Building walls + cannons prevent run bys and lings from surrounding you while the mutas zoom in. The most important thing is to keep pressure on with the zealots so they have to keep their mutas back. | ||
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Chaser808
24 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
If you have 3 stargates, it shouldn't be too hard to go voidray chargelot archon templar or something along those lines. If you go voidrays early on, you may not even have to add voidrays. Since I always go for that composition, it's just a matter of adding phoenix and getting phoenix range to counter mutas. | ||
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