EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 174
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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partydude89
1850 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On September 08 2013 07:04 partydude89 wrote: hi. i have a question for you all! so i'm a gold level protoss (plat last season) and i'm PvP i am having a very hard time. many people are going for straight up 4 gates. I can usually scout it very early (they almost always go for like an 11 gate and save chrono for cyber) so i know it's coming. i feel like i've tried everything. i go for a counter 4 gate, and which i technically have a probe lead, they contain me at my ramp and get a quicker expand. i've tried going 3 gate robo. but with 1 missed forcefield (reminder that i'm only gold) its over. i've tried stargate for counter pressure, but i try and get an early robo aswell (paranoid about DT's) and spend so much on tech that i can't do much else. So my question to everyone is that if you already know that an early pressure (like a really quick 4 gate or 3 gate) what would be the optimal build (thats easy to control as well) against it? Get a msc as soon as possible. Get a robo for immortals and buy time to get immortals out with photon overcharge. You can stay on 2 or 3 gates, both are fine. If your opponent is doing a "true" 4 gate, he won't have double gas, so DTs are not a problem. But you should still get a robo anyway, that's the safest approach along with a msc for photon overcharge. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 08 2013 07:04 partydude89 wrote: hi. i have a question for you all! so i'm a gold level protoss (plat last season) and i'm PvP i am having a very hard time. many people are going for straight up 4 gates. I can usually scout it very early (they almost always go for like an 11 gate and save chrono for cyber) so i know it's coming. i feel like i've tried everything. i go for a counter 4 gate, and which i technically have a probe lead, they contain me at my ramp and get a quicker expand. i've tried going 3 gate robo. but with 1 missed forcefield (reminder that i'm only gold) its over. i've tried stargate for counter pressure, but i try and get an early robo aswell (paranoid about DT's) and spend so much on tech that i can't do much else. So my question to everyone is that if you already know that an early pressure (like a really quick 4 gate or 3 gate) what would be the optimal build (thats easy to control as well) against it? Really the best way to handle straight up 4 gates is with good forcefield control, I realize that it's often hard to hit them perfectly, but a 4 gate is unsustainable in the long run, and with tech behind your forcefields, you'll crush it as long as you can buy some time. Work on hitting your forcefields on the ramp and you'll be fine. Almost any standard PvP build can hold a 4 gate no problem as long as you recognize it is coming and get the sentries out in time. Fast expand builds usually have to cancel the nexus but that doesn't even really put you behind against a 4 gate. Be less concerned with optimizing a build specifically to crush a 4 gate (if you really need one, try a 3 stalker rush and don't let them get the pylon up) and more with making sure you hit your forcefields correctly. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On September 08 2013 09:23 Whitewing wrote: Really the best way to handle straight up 4 gates is with good forcefield control, I realize that it's often hard to hit them perfectly, but a 4 gate is unsustainable in the long run, and with tech behind your forcefields, you'll crush it as long as you can buy some time. Work on hitting your forcefields on the ramp and you'll be fine. Almost any standard PvP build can hold a 4 gate no problem as long as you recognize it is coming and get the sentries out in time. Fast expand builds usually have to cancel the nexus but that doesn't even really put you behind against a 4 gate. Be less concerned with optimizing a build specifically to crush a 4 gate (if you really need one, try a 3 stalker rush and don't let them get the pylon up) and more with making sure you hit your forcefields correctly. I second this. 4-gate is terrible now...if you just sit at your ramp and forcefield well with 3-4 sentries, you can hold off the push indefinitely. It doesn't even matter what strategy you're doing, just get better at those forcefields. If you get contained, just go for a fast colossus (without range), push down the ramp, continually warp in units, and walk across the map for an easy win. | ||
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Dragonadern
Switzerland17 Posts
is anyone experiencing the same Problems? The same issue occurs when i try it with a different key, e.g. § or something. | ||
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etherealfall
Australia476 Posts
I feel on that particular map, you can't really have the composition for a big ground attack AND muta play if you want an early third? (ie 6:30-7min third) | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On September 08 2013 20:21 Dragonadern wrote: Hi im a Protoss and trying to learn the new warp in trick to spam lots and lots of zealots lategame. I have changed the warp in hotkey aswell as the "Choose Ability or A.I. Target" to the same key (Caps lock) , but whenever i try to select Gateways, hold caps and hotkey for the zealot, it doesnt work, i have to manually hit caps lock and E at the exact same time (hotkeys for choose ability and Stalker) and thats really difficult. is anyone experiencing the same Problems? The same issue occurs when i try it with a different key, e.g. § or something. The technique should work like this: 1. Select warpgates (W) 2. Press hotkey for unit (Z) 3. Hold "choose ability or AI target" hotkey and wave your mouse (W for me) If somehow that's not working for you, it might have something to do with caps lock, I don't know. But it should work. On September 08 2013 23:45 etherealfall wrote: What do you do if you scout spire early in PvZ (10min placement on 3 hatch opening) but then he proceeds to make a roach ling all in - knowing you have to commit to stargates to win against Mutas - map is Derelict Watcher I feel on that particular map, you can't really have the composition for a big ground attack AND muta play if you want an early third? (ie 6:30-7min third) It would help to see a replay. How are you opening? Most PvZ openings include a stargate with either phoenix or void rays, so you should be able to deflect any spire pressure naturally upon scouting it; in order to scout any kind of tech change, you need to be actively scouting near your opponent's "rally point" (generally the area in front of the natural) to get a good idea of which units he's making. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Dragonadern
Switzerland17 Posts
1. Select warpgates (OK, thats easy) 2. Press hotkey for zealot (Q, since i use grid hotkeys) 3. I try to hold "Choose ability or AI target" and it simply does it once, it warps in one zealot, and it deselects my warpgates I have the warp in hotkey on the same key as i have the "alternate key" on "Choose ability or AI target".. its really weird, i dont know what i did wrong? Thanks again for the help  | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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LeafBlower
United States115 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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LeafBlower
United States115 Posts
On September 10 2013 02:05 Teoita wrote: Pull like 4 probes and chrono a second zealot to kill it (it should die before it completes). I don't know about pulling a probe just for the drone, i feel like if you get the second zealot and kill it with a few probes you are in a better spot but i'm not 100% sure. i will try this. is 4 probes the magic number? i actually tried pulling like 8 one time when i raged and that killed the hatch fine, at the sacrifice of probably losing way too much mining time -_- | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 10 2013 02:12 LeafBlower wrote: i will try this. is 4 probes the magic number? i actually tried pulling like 8 one time when i raged and that killed the hatch fine, at the sacrifice of probably losing way too much mining time -_- The zerg has to basically temporarily give up 300 minerals and a drone to occupy your expansion, but when it cancels it gets 225 of those minerals back, so you don't want to pull so many probes that you make him cancel and result in you losing more mining than he lost minerals. Pulling a few is fine though, while those 300 minerals are tied up on the hatch at your front, he can't be spending it on a hatch at home or on more drones, means he'll be a lot weaker for a while than he ordinarily would be. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Again, i'm not 100% sure. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 10 2013 02:21 Teoita wrote: I think yeah 4 is the magic number along with two zealots, but DONT QUOTE ME ON THAT. I suggest you just try it with a practice partner. I seem to remember someone pulling 3 probes and not getting the kill in time, so i THINK 4 should do the job. Again, i'm not 100% sure. It's not the worst thing in the world if you don't get the kill before it finishes as long as you don't lose anything to the broodlings, and you kill it before the creep really spreads. The most important thing is to kill it before the queen pops: you don't want a creep tumor dropping in your natural and forcing you to have to build a robo or stargate before you can expand. Make sure you don't overextend too much when killing it (keep your units on the close side to the ramp), you don't want a bunch of lings to come running up while your zealots and probes are working on the hatch and just let them into your main, or get your units surrounded. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On September 10 2013 00:09 LeafBlower wrote: if i'm gateway expanding pvz and i see an early drone scout, should i just preemptively send a probe to patrol my nat so it doesn't get blocked? it's so annoying when a zerg builds a hatch there. even if i chrono a zealot out i can't seem to kill it before it finishes.. any tips on what to do against this? Are you not starting a zealot before dropping the nexus? edit: Also, some quick math/testing in the unit tester can verify this. I don't know the specific timing the hatch goes down that you're talking about, but I found that: If you begin attacking as the hatch first starts building, 5 probes or 1 probe and 1 zealot will force a cancel (which is my normal timing in my gate fe). If you start as it sits at half health, it takes 9 probes, or 5 probes and a zealot to force the cancel. Found a pattern where every 12.5% health you have to continually add 1 more probe or 1/4 zealot DPS to force a cancel, so just go from there. edit2: which now means I guess if you see any sort of proxy hatch and know you can get a zealot out in time, it's infinitely better to just hold off pulling probes until the zealot pops, cause you're going to pull the same amount of probes either way. | ||
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LeafBlower
United States115 Posts
On September 10 2013 04:54 rd wrote: Are you not starting a zealot before dropping the nexus? Yes, but I'm never able to kill it before it finishes. I think pulling the 4 probes immediately will help accomplish this. If the hatch ever finishes and I use my first zealot to finish it off and expand afterwards, I always feel behind. Hopefully pulling the probes to kill it and expanding earlier is a better outcome. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On September 10 2013 04:59 LeafBlower wrote: Yes, but I'm never able to kill it before it finishes. I think pulling the 4 probes immediately will help accomplish this. If the hatch ever finishes and I use my first zealot to finish it off and expand afterwards, I always feel behind. Hopefully pulling the probes to kill it and expanding earlier is a better outcome. edited my post, did some testing for you. | ||
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LeafBlower
United States115 Posts
awesome! you saved me some time as I was going to test it out later today :D | ||
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