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I'm not sure if that's the best place, but I play protoss and I need some help so... 
I'm EU high diamond, last season mid master. I feel like I'm stuck on that skill level. So far I was able to get from "I played sc bw without knowing a single thing about strategy ten years ago" to "lol, master league" quite easily. Learning compositions, timings, macro, micro, multitasking, scouting, all that. Big thanks to TL, Day9, and people who provide pro replays.
But now I just don't feel, that I'm getting any better (and having constant 1:1 win:lose at the same level ratio suggests that I'm right). I go for timings and all-ins as well as for mine-everything macro games with all races, yet I have to say I struggle against cheesy build. Anyway, I just feel that I'm not getting anywhere lately.
I know it's tough question without analyzing few dozens of my replays and that I'm no longer on "keep building workers" level, but do you have any idea how can I improve? What's the difference between high diamond/mid master toss player and high master? Maybe you were in the same place and you "fixed" yourself?
I have some time to spend on sc2 during next 2 months and I'm looking for the best way to do it
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United States4883 Posts
On July 23 2013 17:20 Nowado wrote:I'm not sure if that's the best place, but I play protoss and I need some help so... I'm EU high diamond, last season mid master. I feel like I'm stuck on that skill level. So far I was able to get from "I played sc bw without knowing a single thing about strategy ten years ago" to "lol, master league" quite easily. Learning compositions, timings, macro, micro, multitasking, scouting, all that. Big thanks to TL, Day9, and people who provide pro replays. But now I just don't feel, that I'm getting any better (and having constant 1:1 win:lose at the same level ratio suggests that I'm right). I go for timings and all-ins as well as for mine-everything macro games with all races, yet I have to say I struggle against cheesy build. Anyway, I just feel that I'm not getting anywhere lately. I know it's tough question without analyzing few dozens of my replays and that I'm no longer on "keep building workers" level, but do you have any idea how can I improve? What's the difference between high diamond/mid master toss player and high master? Maybe you were in the same place and you "fixed" yourself? I have some time to spend on sc2 during next 2 months and I'm looking for the best way to do it
I don't know if this is like exactly what you need or super solid advice, but I'll just tell you what I tend to do when I get stuck in a rut, especially on a particular matchup:
1) Just go into custom games and load up a game against the computer practicing a macro build (FFE into phoenix into a 15:00 maxed out colossus push for instance) and just do that like 5-10 times before playing any games for the day. For me, this helps me work on my macro in an isolated atmosphere and allows me time to really refine 1 particular build. Generally, I'll do this for the same build 2-3 days in a row to get a more solid feel.
2) Offrace/cheese for a little while. Like, it seems silly, but doing these things can help you get out a rut really easily. It not only gives you a little bit different perspective and alerts you to some of the weaknesses of the race, but it also allows you the opportunity to just generally work on macro since you're less concerned with timings and exact build orders.
Hope that gives you some ideas and helps you out some!
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Hello
Thank you for suggestions
1. I always start with 2-3 unranked games for a warm-up If I ever go for any new build I sit on custom and refine it, until at around 8-9 min mark I'm not more then 10-15 sec behind pro who I'm mimicing.
2. I never cheesed before, but after reading "Playing to Win", I decided to learn 2-3 complete bullshit builds against each race and I practice them as well as standard macro/timings. I will try to offrace, didn't play anything but protoss for 4 months I think.
Btw, what league are you? Don't get me wrong, I simply want to know if I should consider your ideas "some nice thoughts, worth giving it a try" or "he is so much better, I should follow blindly even if I don't get it"
Thanks again. Any more comments/pm from everyone will be helpful(hopefully^^)
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Italy12246 Posts
There are some differences in macro too, but the biggest thing is probably executing builds better, better positioning, scouting, multitasking, decision making...there's a LOT of differences between low and top master or gm level players (and between that/foreigner pros/koreans)
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i would honestly say if you want to improve as protoss you need to "refine builds". protoss (a race that i play equally with the other two) is a VERY build oriented race. struggling vs a protoss is generally the result of not understanding the build they are doing and struggling AS protoss is generally a result of your own build not being that crisp.
assuming you are not at least masters level things like "storm drops" "sentry drops" "blink stalker micro" are not as important as making the right units, and expanding at the right times. you can have next to no micro and do nothing fancy but if you macro well, have high army supply and pick the right units a protoss player can further himself more so then the other races doing this very same thing as they require in many cases more complex responses and less "deathbally"
. i would suggest to anyone who wants to get good at protoss to learn 1 build per matchup (including all ins) and just do it every game. what this does is gives you a constant to evaluate yourself with. look at your "immortal sentry all in" vs the last 3 zergs. notice how one game it was more powerful earlier while the next it was weaker? ask yourself why this is. figure out why your supply was lower at 10mins in game 2 but not in game 3 or 1. look at a pro who did this build, why is his supply higher, why is his timing earlier and why are his fights going better then yours. once you are trouncing people with your build, pick a new build and keep doing this.
of course there are tons of other multitasking and decision making that a player can improve upon but if you are unable to determine where to start or what exactly your problem is personally the the most important sc2 skill to have, macro, must be mastered. a player who macros well can be completely awful at a matchup but win "by having more stuff" more of the time up untill i would say top masters. i can 100 percent confirm you are able to macro and a move all your way to masters (i bet my friend a spare sc2 acc 2 years ago i could do this with protoss and i have the acc to prove it!)
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I have seen some PvPs where a player scouts with the msc but is unable to defend an aggressive strategy due to the msc being out of position for photon overcharge. However I just played this PvP where I decided to try scouting with msc and I managed to spot a dark shrine and deflected it with no losses, after which I won with a colossus timing.
My question is: what is the criteria for core scouting? Does the decision to core scout solely depends on the build(like you dont want your msc out of position for a FE build), or does it have something to do with what your scouting probe sees as well (like no fast nexus+double gas would seem to indicate a rush of some kind and confirming what it is with msc scout would be beneficial)? Are there any general guidelines for whether one should core scout or not?
fyi I was using State's PvP FE build(from day9 daily #589) where you open with 2 sentries, msc, robo and 3 gates
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Hey guys, I'm trying to find a P guide that was made for WoL that was basically a one base speed warp prism colossus all in (so, get a colossus get a prism get a colossus get a prism micro like crazy). My abilities at using the search bar seem to be lackluster as I cannot find it.
I understand that it was half meant as a joke and fun thing to do but it seems like something fun to mix in when I'm bored of my vanilla openings as P. Thanks in advance
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Thanks everyone for advice
uh-oh:
You should mcr scout, when there is close air distance (obvious I guess) and when u scout hidden tech with ur probe (mcr wins 1:1 with stalker, and it's unlikely there will be anything more, if there is no 2nd gateway and no 2nd pylon).
Don't: lack of place, where u can hide your mcr when moving back. If u FE then you need mcr to stay alive, so it's pretty obvious.
Newkirk is great example of map where u schould use mcr, while Bel'Shir is great example map where you should not.
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On July 24 2013 00:06 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 23:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hey guys, I'm trying to find a P guide that was made for WoL that was basically a one base speed warp prism colossus all in (so, get a colossus get a prism get a colossus get a prism micro like crazy). My abilities at using the search bar seem to be lackluster as I cannot find it.
I understand that it was half meant as a joke and fun thing to do but it seems like something fun to mix in when I'm bored of my vanilla openings as P. Thanks in advance I think the build you're looking for is this, though it's definitely not an all-in: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299322If you're uncomfortable opening Nexus first in HotS then you should check out some of puCK's PvT play. Though I've not seen him do it recently, he used to often do a 1 Gate Robo Expand that rushed for Colossi and Gravitic Drive. He even did it in WoL. If you search around YouTube then there are probably some VoDs somewhere.
That's the one thanks! For some reason in my memory it was a one base build.
Maybe all in is the wrong term but it's definitely gimmicky and something I'll be trying out ^^
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Italy12246 Posts
Yeah don't learn Adonminus builds. They are pretty goddamn bad.
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Hey Guys,
what do I do against a 10 pool on a 2 player map if I'm doing a FE? I am normally opting for a 17 Nexus, 17 Forge and so on. So if I scout the 10 pool, what do I have to do then?
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On July 24 2013 01:01 Teoita wrote:
Yeah don't learn Adonminus builds. They are pretty goddamn bad.
Wasn't planning on it but thanks anyway!
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On July 24 2013 05:16 bretfart wrote:
Hey Guys,
what do I do against a 10 pool on a 2 player map if I'm doing a FE? I am normally opting for a 17 Nexus, 17 Forge and so on. So if I scout the 10 pool, what do I have to do then?
it depends on when you scout, do you pylon scout?
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Hey Guys, I couldn't find a more recent post on how to wall off during FFE vs Zerg.
I am fairly new to toss so I'm not used to how to wall off.
I just want to know what buildings I wall off with on each map with a zealot gap.
Thanks Alot
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United States4883 Posts
On July 24 2013 10:01 boseok243 wrote:
Hey Guys, I couldn't find a more recent post on how to wall off during FFE vs Zerg.
I am fairly new to toss so I'm not used to how to wall off.
I just want to know what buildings I wall off with on each map with a zealot gap.
Thanks Alot
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383628
These are old maps, but the walloffs are pretty much the same on newer maps, just copy the general configuration. I'm thinking about writing a guide on FFE in HotS (a little different from the WoL version).
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I have a couple questions regarding PvP and PvT
1. if i'm going a stargate expand build, and I scout him going a voidray all-in or a blink all-in, do i produce voids or phoenix
2. in PvT, if both of us went a FE build, and I later scout him getting a very fast 3rd (before any medivac pressure), how do I respond? it seems if I get a quick 3rd of my own, the economy doesn't kick in fast enough when he does get medivacs
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On July 24 2013 06:18 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 05:16 bretfart wrote:
Hey Guys,
what do I do against a 10 pool on a 2 player map if I'm doing a FE? I am normally opting for a 17 Nexus, 17 Forge and so on. So if I scout the 10 pool, what do I have to do then? it depends on when you scout, do you pylon scout?
Yes, I scout after my first pylon so I can see the 10 pool when it's around 40% or so. I normally cancel drone no 16 and 17 and build a 15 forge. But I never get my wall done in time.
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Austria24422 Posts
Why not a 13 forge? 13 forge 17 nexus is the safest way to FFE unless I'm totally wrong, it just puts you behind against anything that isn't an early pool. In WoL you'd go 13 forge if you didn't scout your opponent in the first starting location and you wanted to be safe against a potential early pool. Don't see why it should be different at all in HotS since that scenario is still unchanged.
The most important thing against a 10 pool is getting the cannon up fast so his lings won't be able to kill it or run by without losses because that stuff loses games. Wall off before taking your nexus and you should be fine. Don't even have to full wall, a probe on hold position with enough minerals to close the gap if it's being attacked should do the trick
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EPT
