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The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 137

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 08 2013 23:43 GMT
#2721
On July 09 2013 08:40 DBS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2013 16:25 Teoita wrote:
Adding on to that, you can argue that a twilight council doens't really count as a tech structure since you want to time it with your upgrades most of the time.

But yeah, generally,
PvT: Robo+1/2 forges+6gates+twilight+archives or colossus bay
PvZ: Robo+4gates+stargate+support bay
PvP: there really aren't any, pvp midgame is very varied because there are so many styles that are viable.


Thanks a lot for that. If this method won't work for PvP, how would you recommend learning the match up?


Watch some of the best kespa pvpers; off the top of my head, check out the vods of sos, zest, rain and parting.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
DBS
Profile Joined July 2012
515 Posts
July 08 2013 23:45 GMT
#2722
On July 09 2013 01:40 Andannius wrote:
Hey all,
So I played WoL for some time back when it came out, but bought HotS around a month ago and have been playing since. After getting used to the mechanics again and playing some I've found myself stuck in Gold (which is where I was in WoL) and my biggest problem is that my APM is garbage. Almost always <70. Are there any tricks/techniques/practice strategies you guys know of for fixing this? Obviously I have other problems too, and APM isn't always a perfect indicator of ability, but I feel like it's actually preventing me from being able to take care of essential tasks.

Thanks!


I am low diamond with an average APM of 56 for this season. I also play very multitasking focused play (lots and lots of Warp prisms) I just have very efficient APM. Focus on turning your spam into useful actions, unless you don't spam. In that case, I think it might be worth trying to it, and then later turning that spam into useful actions once you get used to it.
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 06:31:59
July 09 2013 06:31 GMT
#2723
On July 09 2013 08:43 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 08:40 DBS wrote:
On July 08 2013 16:25 Teoita wrote:
Adding on to that, you can argue that a twilight council doens't really count as a tech structure since you want to time it with your upgrades most of the time.

But yeah, generally,
PvT: Robo+1/2 forges+6gates+twilight+archives or colossus bay
PvZ: Robo+4gates+stargate+support bay
PvP: there really aren't any, pvp midgame is very varied because there are so many styles that are viable.


Thanks a lot for that. If this method won't work for PvP, how would you recommend learning the match up?


Watch some of the best kespa pvpers; off the top of my head, check out the vods of sos, zest, rain and parting.


HerO has killer PvP as well although he might just be the hardest protoss to copy in the whole world due to his madness.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
July 09 2013 09:00 GMT
#2724
Gonna ask this question again because it is getting on my nerves:


Am I ment to not be able to see what building are morphing. Even tho there is no FOW
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 09 2013 09:08 GMT
#2725
I dont understand your question, you can tell what a zerg building is simply by clicking on it if you have it in sight range.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 09:22:38
July 09 2013 09:22 GMT
#2726
On July 09 2013 18:00 Mozdk wrote:
Gonna ask this question again because it is getting on my nerves:


Am I ment to not be able to see what building are morphing. Even tho there is no FOW

You don't the view enemy units setting enabled in your settings.
Moderator
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 09:41:43
July 09 2013 09:41 GMT
#2727
On July 09 2013 18:22 monk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:00 Mozdk wrote:
Gonna ask this question again because it is getting on my nerves:


Am I ment to not be able to see what building are morphing. Even tho there is no FOW

You don't the view enemy units setting enabled in your settings.


YES!

Thank you so much!


@Teoita

No I couldn't without those settings. Why it was like that I dunno.
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 09 2013 09:42 GMT
#2728
Oooooooh yeah my bad. I changed those so long ago i forgot they existed xD It's actually really silly of blizzard to have that toggled as default btw.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
July 09 2013 09:48 GMT
#2729
Don't even remember it being toggled last time. I've installed SC2 on a new computer. Zerg buildings were impossible to scout before this fix :D
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 12:19:56
July 09 2013 12:18 GMT
#2730
So, if you guys have just watched OSL...

+ Show Spoiler +
what the hell did Trap just do? Both games he took a super-late third, and attacked at what seemed like the most random timing, the time in the game when Zerg is supposed to be absolutely dominant in their map control due to their ability to field large Lair-tech armies before Toss can max out, and just kicked the crap out of KangHo both games. I don't understand why it worked.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 09 2013 12:27 GMT
#2731
Game 1:
+ Show Spoiler +
Trap killed more drones than he should have early on and losira went roach/hydra without pressuring, which is really goddamn bad. When you have 4colossi you just melt that shit. It's better imo to push at 180 supply instead of 160, but tbh with good execution both work out.


Game 2:
+ Show Spoiler +
Zerg screwed up so horribly for that whole game in handling the initial pressure and harassment that he got his first few corruptors when Trap already had 4 colossi. That means good times for the Protoss, especially because his roach/ling pressure did nothing.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
July 09 2013 12:39 GMT
#2732
On July 09 2013 18:41 Mozdk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:22 monk wrote:
On July 09 2013 18:00 Mozdk wrote:
Gonna ask this question again because it is getting on my nerves:


Am I ment to not be able to see what building are morphing. Even tho there is no FOW

You don't the view enemy units setting enabled in your settings.


YES!

Thank you so much!


@Teoita

No I couldn't without those settings. Why it was like that I dunno.

Yeah starting with hots I believe they thought it was a good idea that the standard settings do not have it enabled

+ Show Spoiler +
Losira is bad
beep boop
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
July 09 2013 14:03 GMT
#2733
On July 09 2013 21:27 Teoita wrote:
Game 1:
+ Show Spoiler +
Trap killed more drones than he should have early on and losira went roach/hydra without pressuring, which is really goddamn bad. When you have 4colossi you just melt that shit. It's better imo to push at 180 supply instead of 160, but tbh with good execution both work out.


Game 2:
+ Show Spoiler +
Zerg screwed up so horribly for that whole game in handling the initial pressure and harassment that he got his first few corruptors when Trap already had 4 colossi. That means good times for the Protoss, especially because his roach/ling pressure did nothing.


+ Show Spoiler +
So what you're saying is, it only worked because of the leads that Trap took early on, and should not in fact be emulated. (Except maybe as a play designed to close out the game when you get a large advantage with phoenix harass early on like Trap did.)
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Squiggles
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada54 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 16:00:48
July 09 2013 15:58 GMT
#2734
Quick question. In PvT, if they go mech, are chargelots useful in main army or just dead weight? I went mass immortal/chargelot/archon and lost vs. hellbats/thor/tanks.

Trying to tell if it was a composition problem or just a bad engagement problem.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 16:39:07
July 09 2013 16:38 GMT
#2735
On July 09 2013 23:03 Salivanth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 21:27 Teoita wrote:
Game 1:
+ Show Spoiler +
Trap killed more drones than he should have early on and losira went roach/hydra without pressuring, which is really goddamn bad. When you have 4colossi you just melt that shit. It's better imo to push at 180 supply instead of 160, but tbh with good execution both work out.


Game 2:
+ Show Spoiler +
Zerg screwed up so horribly for that whole game in handling the initial pressure and harassment that he got his first few corruptors when Trap already had 4 colossi. That means good times for the Protoss, especially because his roach/ling pressure did nothing.


+ Show Spoiler +
So what you're saying is, it only worked because of the leads that Trap took early on, and should not in fact be emulated. (Except maybe as a play designed to close out the game when you get a large advantage with phoenix harass early on like Trap did.)


I'm saying it works if you are ahead, otherwise vs roach/hydra/corruptor armies that aren't trying to transition into hive tech you should play more defensively. You can find yourself ahead in similar ways if your stargate does a lot of damage and he lets your colossus count climb unconstested.

On July 10 2013 00:58 Squiggles wrote:
Quick question. In PvT, if they go mech, are chargelots useful in main army or just dead weight? I went mass immortal/chargelot/archon and lost vs. hellbats/thor/tanks.

Trying to tell if it was a composition problem or just a bad engagement problem.


They are useful early on (say, you want to hit a timing as he moves in the open to take his third on a map like whirlwind or planet s) but as food counts rise you should sac them and replace them with templars/archons/immortals/tempests.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Squiggles
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada54 Posts
July 09 2013 17:53 GMT
#2736
On July 10 2013 01:38 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2013 00:58 Squiggles wrote:
Quick question. In PvT, if they go mech, are chargelots useful in main army or just dead weight? I went mass immortal/chargelot/archon and lost vs. hellbats/thor/tanks.

Trying to tell if it was a composition problem or just a bad engagement problem.


They are useful early on (say, you want to hit a timing as he moves in the open to take his third on a map like whirlwind or planet s) but as food counts rise you should sac them and replace them with templars/archons/immortals/tempests.

Thank you Teoita!
Having a lot of trouble against Terran Mech surprisingly... Probably just use to playing against bio and not against mech. Will try to get off gateway units faster.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 09 2013 17:55 GMT
#2737
Yeah that's fairly common, mech play is rare so it's easy to get caught off guard and screw up against it.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
July 09 2013 17:59 GMT
#2738
yeah,
luckily enough the last times i played against mech were all on whirlwind O_o
weird terrans
beep boop
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 09 2013 18:33 GMT
#2739
Oh yeah it's always fun when they do that, they try to take their third and you show up with like 5 immortals, 3 archons, a bunch of chargelots and a warp prism warping shit on his tanks.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
July 09 2013 23:20 GMT
#2740
So... I see a lot of pro Protoss players open 1gate expand in PvZ. What do these guys do vs 6 pool or 10 pool with a bunch of lings. MSC wont be up in time.
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
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