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Hi all. Sorry if this has been brought up before, I just don't have time to read 135 pages (it's not on the main page).
I've been going 1 gate expand into Stargate and 2 more gates as my default build (on non-blink maps).. so pretty safe/economic, and gives me a good start into Void Ray production.
Having a little bit of trouble in PvP with guys who are 1 Gate expanding into robo and then mass archons. That build is actually pretty safe against all but the most dedicated all-ins, especially on maps where Blink isn't viable.
What can I do when I've already started going Void Rays? The problem for me is that Void Rays > most other things, so they're clearly the best choice as a default tech.. but I seem to just get steamrolled by mass Archon/Stalker. I feel like as Protoss the only real "counter" to Archons are 1) Archons or 2) Colossus, and I don't want to risk going Colossus because they're so weak to Void Rays!
EDIT - I'm a high Diamond lvl player, did a season in Masters, then demoted to Plat because I stopped playing for a little (and because Blizzard kicked everyone's ass with rankings this season), but will probably be back in Diamond soon.
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So I am a new to protoss, I have been playing SC II as Terran at a high diamond, low master level, since WoL, but I am bored of Terran and want to learn protoss. So if someone could provide some help on what is a good standard PvT build is. Seems to be the match up I am having trouble in, which is funny because I struggled with TvP as well lol. Also wouldn't mind a safe PvP opening build either.
User was warned for this post
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Italy12248 Posts
On July 08 2013 22:59 DinoMight wrote:
Hi all. Sorry if this has been brought up before, I just don't have time to read 135 pages (it's not on the main page).
I've been going 1 gate expand into Stargate and 2 more gates as my default build (on non-blink maps).. so pretty safe/economic, and gives me a good start into Void Ray production.
Having a little bit of trouble in PvP with guys who are 1 Gate expanding into robo and then mass archons. That build is actually pretty safe against all but the most dedicated all-ins, especially on maps where Blink isn't viable.
What can I do when I've already started going Void Rays? The problem for me is that Void Rays > most other things, so they're clearly the best choice as a default tech.. but I seem to just get steamrolled by mass Archon/Stalker. I feel like as Protoss the only real "counter" to Archons are 1) Archons or 2) Colossus, and I don't want to risk going Colossus because they're so weak to Void Rays!
EDIT - I'm a high Diamond lvl player, did a season in Masters, then demoted to Plat because I stopped playing for a little (and because Blizzard kicked everyone's ass with rankings this season), but will probably be back in Diamond soon.
If you are going stargate and he's going robo you should have a bo advantage anyway because his tech building is not very useful vs yours. That said, 1gate expo into stargate is extremely unsafe as it can be punished by 3gate aggression, blink timings, dt and one base stargate, all of which are very common.
On to the midgame, pure chargelot/blink/archon/templar absolutely wrecks void ray heavy play, so you are right that you need to tech switch, and you are also right that you have to go into colossus, cutting void rays as they really aren't useful vs gateway armies imo. However, expect your third to be much slower than his and you really need to watch out for a tempest switch (which is way scarier than void rays when going colossus), so be on top of your scouting and adapt your composition accordingly/try to hit a nice timing before his tempest switch is done (this is very hard to do with colossus).
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Just started playing HOTS today. What is the most common way to hotkey MSC?
With army (1)
Alone (2)
Not hotkeyd (N/A)
With army it gets in the way of FF imo. They need to be fast.
Without army you might forget it.
Just saw Sage having MSC for an attack and he didn't have it hotkeyd
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Italy12248 Posts
All 3 ways have pros and cons as you said. If you don't want to hotkey it at all, right click it on an important unit like a Colossus.
I personally keep it hotkeys separately.
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Austria24422 Posts
I always hotkey it when using it aggressively so I don't forget it but when say defending terran drops at home I find it more useful to hotkey stalkers and main army seperately and leave the core out because it's gonna be hanging around close to a nexus anyway which means I can just camera hotkey to the main, draw a box around the nexus, overcharge and then focus on something else.
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Hey all,
So I played WoL for some time back when it came out, but bought HotS around a month ago and have been playing since. After getting used to the mechanics again and playing some I've found myself stuck in Gold (which is where I was in WoL) and my biggest problem is that my APM is garbage. Almost always <70. Are there any tricks/techniques/practice strategies you guys know of for fixing this? Obviously I have other problems too, and APM isn't always a perfect indicator of ability, but I feel like it's actually preventing me from being able to take care of essential tasks.
Thanks!
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Italy12248 Posts
Tbh APM just comes with time imo.
If you really want to work on it, you could try multitask/apm intensive builds like stargate play, warp prism stuff and what not.
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BOOM!
5 wins in 5 placement matches. Ready to go pro in HOTS
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guys I can't beat mech... like at all..... had colossus archon immortal army (no gateway units) and it just got eaten by ghost tanks.. I dunno what to do anymore,, guess if i see some sign of mech play just all in
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Ehm. Am I ment to not be able to see what building are morphing. Even tho there is no FOW
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On July 09 2013 00:47 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 22:59 DinoMight wrote:
Hi all. Sorry if this has been brought up before, I just don't have time to read 135 pages (it's not on the main page).
I've been going 1 gate expand into Stargate and 2 more gates as my default build (on non-blink maps).. so pretty safe/economic, and gives me a good start into Void Ray production.
Having a little bit of trouble in PvP with guys who are 1 Gate expanding into robo and then mass archons. That build is actually pretty safe against all but the most dedicated all-ins, especially on maps where Blink isn't viable.
What can I do when I've already started going Void Rays? The problem for me is that Void Rays > most other things, so they're clearly the best choice as a default tech.. but I seem to just get steamrolled by mass Archon/Stalker. I feel like as Protoss the only real "counter" to Archons are 1) Archons or 2) Colossus, and I don't want to risk going Colossus because they're so weak to Void Rays!
EDIT - I'm a high Diamond lvl player, did a season in Masters, then demoted to Plat because I stopped playing for a little (and because Blizzard kicked everyone's ass with rankings this season), but will probably be back in Diamond soon. If you are going stargate and he's going robo you should have a bo advantage anyway because his tech building is not very useful vs yours. That said, 1gate expo into stargate is extremely unsafe as it can be punished by 3gate aggression, blink timings, dt and one base stargate, all of which are very common. On to the midgame, pure chargelot/blink/archon/templar absolutely wrecks void ray heavy play, so you are right that you need to tech switch, and you are also right that you have to go into colossus, cutting void rays as they really aren't useful vs gateway armies imo. However, expect your third to be much slower than his and you really need to watch out for a tempest switch (which is way scarier than void rays when going colossus), so be on top of your scouting and adapt your composition accordingly/try to hit a nice timing before his tempest switch is done (this is very hard to do with colossus).
Well, I typically go for a fast Zealot into 2 sentries and start Voids asap once SG is done. Hallucination from early sentry helps scout DT rushes (and I cancel VR and go for fast Oracle). Once natural Nexus is done Photon Overcharge helps vs most gateway pushes, and the delay it gives me helps get a couple voids out. So all in all I have found it fairly safe.. only think is it's bad on maps where Blink is viable or where natural is really wide open.. so I just don't do it on those kinds of maps.
As far as Colo transition.. I think you're right that I have to transition to Colo in order to deal with this kind of army. What to do if he starts making Tempests then?
My harass is pretty good so I can usually slow down his economy enough, but once they get critical mass of Archons I just always lose even if they don't have money to rebuild (the army just doesn't die).
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On July 09 2013 01:07 Mozdk wrote:
Just started playing HOTS today. What is the most common way to hotkey MSC?
With army (1)
Alone (2)
Not hotkeyd (N/A)
With army it gets in the way of FF imo. They need to be fast.
Without army you might forget it.
Just saw Sage having MSC for an attack and he didn't have it hotkeyd
Here's what I do in most cases:
1- Most of my main army (especially gateway units, this include stalkers too, even though they have a special group)
2- Colossi or air (a special unit I want to have quick acess to)
3- HT + MSC
Q- Stalker
I can go 1a2a and 3 (ht + msc) --> click behind my main army. My HT and MSC don't suicide in battle, I can force field and guardian shield easily, etc.
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Little off topic but, I just promoted to Diamond! WOOHOO!
But there is only 5 people in my division...what is up with that????
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When divisions get full, the game creates new divisions. Give it some time and your division will fill up.
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Italy12248 Posts
On July 09 2013 06:19 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:47 Teoita wrote:On July 08 2013 22:59 DinoMight wrote:
Hi all. Sorry if this has been brought up before, I just don't have time to read 135 pages (it's not on the main page).
I've been going 1 gate expand into Stargate and 2 more gates as my default build (on non-blink maps).. so pretty safe/economic, and gives me a good start into Void Ray production.
Having a little bit of trouble in PvP with guys who are 1 Gate expanding into robo and then mass archons. That build is actually pretty safe against all but the most dedicated all-ins, especially on maps where Blink isn't viable.
What can I do when I've already started going Void Rays? The problem for me is that Void Rays > most other things, so they're clearly the best choice as a default tech.. but I seem to just get steamrolled by mass Archon/Stalker. I feel like as Protoss the only real "counter" to Archons are 1) Archons or 2) Colossus, and I don't want to risk going Colossus because they're so weak to Void Rays!
EDIT - I'm a high Diamond lvl player, did a season in Masters, then demoted to Plat because I stopped playing for a little (and because Blizzard kicked everyone's ass with rankings this season), but will probably be back in Diamond soon. If you are going stargate and he's going robo you should have a bo advantage anyway because his tech building is not very useful vs yours. That said, 1gate expo into stargate is extremely unsafe as it can be punished by 3gate aggression, blink timings, dt and one base stargate, all of which are very common. On to the midgame, pure chargelot/blink/archon/templar absolutely wrecks void ray heavy play, so you are right that you need to tech switch, and you are also right that you have to go into colossus, cutting void rays as they really aren't useful vs gateway armies imo. However, expect your third to be much slower than his and you really need to watch out for a tempest switch (which is way scarier than void rays when going colossus), so be on top of your scouting and adapt your composition accordingly/try to hit a nice timing before his tempest switch is done (this is very hard to do with colossus). Well, I typically go for a fast Zealot into 2 sentries and start Voids asap once SG is done. Hallucination from early sentry helps scout DT rushes (and I cancel VR and go for fast Oracle). Once natural Nexus is done Photon Overcharge helps vs most gateway pushes, and the delay it gives me helps get a couple voids out. So all in all I have found it fairly safe.. only think is it's bad on maps where Blink is viable or where natural is really wide open.. so I just don't do it on those kinds of maps. As far as Colo transition.. I think you're right that I have to transition to Colo in order to deal with this kind of army. What to do if he starts making Tempests then? My harass is pretty good so I can usually slow down his economy enough, but once they get critical mass of Archons I just always lose even if they don't have money to rebuild (the army just doesn't die).
Probably go back into void rays. PvP is fairly rock/paper/scissors in the midgame as well, so you have to keep on top of your scouting and adapt your tech switches to your opponent's army and switches. I think that as you first max out, gateway/tempest should edge out colossus based armies with a good engagement. Honestly PvP is still fairly unfigured, but from what i've seen i'm liking gateway play a little more than stargate/colossus stuff (but i've always had a soft spot for high templar so i'm a little biased ^^).
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On July 08 2013 16:25 Teoita wrote:
Adding on to that, you can argue that a twilight council doens't really count as a tech structure since you want to time it with your upgrades most of the time.
But yeah, generally,
PvT: Robo+1/2 forges+6gates+twilight+archives or colossus bay
PvZ: Robo+4gates+stargate+support bay
PvP: there really aren't any, pvp midgame is very varied because there are so many styles that are viable.
Thanks a lot for that. If this method won't work for PvP, how would you recommend learning the match up?
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On July 09 2013 05:42 Extenz wrote:
guys I can't beat mech... like at all..... had colossus archon immortal army (no gateway units) and it just got eaten by ghost tanks.. I dunno what to do anymore,, guess if i see some sign of mech play just all in
Post a replay and I'll take a look at it
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On July 09 2013 01:40 Andannius wrote:
Hey all,
So I played WoL for some time back when it came out, but bought HotS around a month ago and have been playing since. After getting used to the mechanics again and playing some I've found myself stuck in Gold (which is where I was in WoL) and my biggest problem is that my APM is garbage. Almost always <70. Are there any tricks/techniques/practice strategies you guys know of for fixing this? Obviously I have other problems too, and APM isn't always a perfect indicator of ability, but I feel like it's actually preventing me from being able to take care of essential tasks.
Thanks!
Instead of thinking of improving APM as in improving 'actions' overall, you should think about improving your speed of doing certain processes.
Such processes could be adding gateways, warping in units, building certain stuffs, transferring probes, 'fitting an expansion'.
Let's use an example. Let's say you want to add 4 additional gateways. For me, this is a process that could take 8 seconds, because I often think about where to place the gateways. Wouldn't it be better if I spent 2 seconds on adding those gateways.
Let's stack the examples. Let's say I have three different processes, all of whom I spend 8 seconds executing, for a total of 24 seconds. If I reduced the time for each process to 2 seconds, I would have had done all three processes in 6 seconds and my APM would quadruple.
In a real game, you wouldn't necessarily have these macro lined up these closely, but inbetween you'll want to maneuver your army or do a fight. There's a difference between Micro Army - Macro (8 Seconds) - Micro Army and Micro Army - Macro (1 Second) - Micro Army. In the latter case, most likely your army will still be fighting, while in the former example, the battle will probably be over.
Good mechanics is about having the different elements in your build/gameplay be executed at the right moment, without it hindering your micro performance.
TL DR; Focus on increasing the speed of which you execute different macro processes.
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EPT
