EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 130
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On July 01 2013 00:17 Xtreme94 wrote: Hey guys, I just encountered a build in PvT I dunno how to respond... My opponent drop mines into my main mineral line, afterwards he sent 4-6 hellion into my natural mineral line. Although I defend it, I just lose like 20 workers in total which cause my econ pretty bad. I noticed his expand quite late. So, I hope someone can tell me how to respond correctly. I wouldnt say theres any counter build, you just gotta have units to defend both your mineral lines and pull/spread your probes fast enough to not take too much damage. Try to snipe the medivacs asap, hellbats are very slow without them. If you do a 1 gate forge build you can also get 1 cannon at each mineral line very early to defend | ||
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Mackem
United Kingdom470 Posts
On July 01 2013 03:45 Sated wrote: It's pretty similar to State's 1 Gate FE, which Day[9] did a daily on. EDIT: I assume you mean PvP..? Yes PvP. | ||
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pbjsandwich
United States443 Posts
Does it depend with each race or just ASAP after the first gateway unit? | ||
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Mezox
Sweden6 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On July 01 2013 08:50 pbjsandwich wrote: when are you supposed to get the MSC? Does it depend with each race or just ASAP after the first gateway unit? it does depend on what build you do, in most builds you get it asap. I suggest you properly look at current hots build orders | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 30 2013 09:03 vhapter wrote: I'm kind of interested in trying this FFE into voidray-oriented macro style in PvZ. It seems like FFE phoenix into colossus + ground doesn't do such a good job against almost anything that zerg can throw at us in the late game. The thing is, I'd rather steal a refined builds since I'm not too familiar with this style, or at the very least take a look at high level players doing it. Do you guys know any pro vods of this? I think one of the best resources for this is VoDs from WCS AM S1. Alicia did a PvZ mass void ray build almost exclusively. From what I can tell, it's a hybrid 4-gate/stargate build that builds 1 phoenix to kill off overlords then immediately transitions into mass void rays and a really early 3rd (~8:00 or sooner). I feel like MC did this more recently in Homestory Cup as well, but I don't remember the specific games. Hope this helps! | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On July 01 2013 13:09 SC2John wrote: I think one of the best resources for this is VoDs from WCS AM S1. Alicia did a PvZ mass void ray build almost exclusively. From what I can tell, it's a hybrid 4-gate/stargate build that builds 1 phoenix to kill off overlords then immediately transitions into mass void rays and a really early 3rd (~8:00 or sooner). I feel like MC did this more recently in Homestory Cup as well, but I don't remember the specific games. Hope this helps! I haven't watched WCS AM much because of its weird schedule, so thanks for the tip! It seems I'm lucky, as Artosis posted this build on facebook not too long after I asked about it here. With a couple of vods, it shouldn't be too hard to learn how to do it properly. Although I'd rather go FFE, because I swear everytime I go msc expand in PvZ, the zerg does some kind of early cheese and I feel pretty lost since I'm not so used to this way of expanding. I was just experimenting with it the other day and got speedling rushed 3 times in a row, then I switched to FFE and zergs magically stopped blindly doing utter trash early cheeses. Then I try going msc expand again and my opponent hits me with a 7rr and lings a bit before I'm about to open my gateways. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/934927_631767613502804_792296864_n.jpg) | ||
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1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
PvZ: Forge Fast Expand or FFE is currently by far the standard opening and used in about 90% of PvZs. Gateway Core Openings or Gateway Nexus Openings are also sometimes used, but generally not recommended for beginners. I'm a mid to high diamond player, and am wondering if this is around the time I can be using these more mechanically demanding and dangerous openings now, or wait until masters? Which one would you recommend specifically, something like SaSe's 5 Gate? I know how to do the 9:00 Zealot/Immortal All-in but it feels almost like cheating, and playing these kinds of all-ins aren't going to teach me the matchup well. | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
Nice one, thanks. I wrote a complete guide for myself for Alicias PvZ, but mostly without supply (only with some benchmarks). Maybe I can write a complete guide some day, I managed to snipe some sick high master Zergs (and ex-GMs) with Alicias build. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On July 01 2013 09:17 Mezox wrote: Thanks to your response on the cannon rush! The part with 3 probes on each cannon was something I overlooked. Note that if you're late you'll need 4 per cannon | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
First of all. I played Diamond League from season 1-6 (or 7). What about now? Will I get placed in diamond when I start, and no chance of demotion until season ends? Because I doubt I can win any games at all in diamond, not having played and not knowing the new units other than from watching GSL and MLG and a few streams once in a while. Where do I start? Should I play 50 games vs AI to get to know the new units and hotkeys for those units? Like MSC and such. And maybe take 10 games with terran and zerg to get to know how long between medivac boosts and exact tech path for vipers or swarm hosts. Or maybe just ladder like a madman until I know it? | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
On July 02 2013 07:12 Mozdk wrote: Ehm. I haven't played the game in a year, because my laptop couldn't handle it. I am getting a brand spanking new computer friday. And I have a few questions. First of all. I played Diamond League from season 1-6 (or 7). What about now? Will I get placed in diamond when I start, and no chance of demotion until season ends? Because I doubt I can win any games at all in diamond, not having played and not knowing the new units other than from watching GSL and MLG and a few streams once in a while. Where do I start? Should I play 50 games vs AI to get to know the new units and hotkeys for those units? Like MSC and such. And maybe take 10 games with terran and zerg to get to know how long between medivac boosts and exact tech path for vipers or swarm hosts. Or maybe just ladder like a madman until I know it? The game resetted MMR for HotS, or rather, it started a seperate ladder, so you won't have to worry about landing in Diamond immediately. I think with the recent change you'll at most land in Gold, and then you'll have the opportunity to play yourself up. You could play Unranked, but I think it's nice to get into the 'improving' mindset and beyond ladder anxiety and just start playing and learning the hard way Also, try and watch a few games, e.g. some WCS games or tournament games. If you spend around 5-10% spectating Protoss play, I think you'll pick up the pace and meta with the game very quickly. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On July 02 2013 07:48 TokO wrote: The game resetted MMR for HotS, or rather, it started a seperate ladder, so you won't have to worry about landing in Diamond immediately. I think with the recent change you'll at most land in Gold, and then you'll have the opportunity to play yourself up. You could play Unranked, but I think it's nice to get into the 'improving' mindset and beyond ladder anxiety and just start playing and learning the hard way Also, try and watch a few games, e.g. some WCS games or tournament games. If you spend around 5-10% spectating Protoss play, I think you'll pick up the pace and meta with the game very quickly.Sounds good. I think I will try my best to get placed into silver. I know it is very low, but dealing with new units will take time to learn. Then I can focus on that while I relearn my macro. Guessing I will be at 90% of my old mechanics level within around 2 weeks. The last 10% will probably take a month or two extra. | ||
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meatpudding
Australia520 Posts
On July 01 2013 08:50 pbjsandwich wrote: when are you supposed to get the MSC? Does it depend with each race or just ASAP after the first gateway unit? I would like to ask this as well for more info. As posted above it's usually asap, but depends... Afaik it's something like this in KR PvP: gate, 2gas, core -> if playing defensive msc first, then wg and stalker; if aggressive wg, stalker first then msc -> 1 base all in PvT: msc often delayed until after expo or tech, sometimes not made at all PvZ: not sure for FFE, but gateway openings should be getting msc asap Also, how do you scout with a msc in PvP? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:19 meatpudding wrote: I would like to ask this as well for more info. As posted above it's usually asap, but depends... Afaik it's something like this in KR PvP: gate, 2gas, core -> if playing defensive msc first, then wg and stalker; if aggressive wg, stalker first then msc -> 1 base all in PvT: msc often delayed until after expo or tech, sometimes not made at all PvZ: not sure for FFE, but gateway openings should be getting msc asap Also, how do you scout with a msc in PvP? ...??? The best reasoning for getting a MsC is to take a base. In other words, if you are fast expanding in PvT and PvZ (gate expand), you want to get a MsC as soon as possible in order to have enough energy for photon overcharge. Also, when trying to take an early 3rd in PvZ off of a FFE, you want to line up your MsC with your expansion in order to defend it. If you start a nexus at the same time as a MsC, the MsC will have just enough energy for overcharge when the nexus finishes. The sole exception to this rule is in PvP where you just need to MsC to better deal with early pokes and defend against possible 4-gates (in a sense, it's allowing you to secure your main base instead of an expansion). If you're going to scout with a MsC in PvP, you need to send it over to your opponent's base immediately. If it gets intercepted by 1-2 stalkers on the way back and you can't use terrain to get away, you always have a time warp available to help your MsC get away safely. Sidenote: this scout ends up getting to your opponent's base right around 5:30 (MsC takes roughly a minute to cross most maps). | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
PvT: there's a few variations: you can do a msc expand and start it right after the nexus (it comes out slightly after a reaper gets to your base so you need to probe micro a bit), or you can get it a bit faster and do a zealot/stalker/msc poke and expand behind it. Unless you are onebasing or going proxy stargate, it's generally made before tech. PvZ: off FFE i usually see it after you start getting your tech going, so more or less when you are mining from your natural gasses. Most gateway expand builds these days are very similar to the PvT msc expand, and again there's a bo for it in the mantrain guide. | ||
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Hellbat
223 Posts
9 – Pylon 13 – Gateway 15 – Assimilator 16 – Pylon 18 – @100% Gateway, start Cybernetics Core and 2nd Assimilator 21 – Pylon 21 – @100% Cybernetics Core, start Warpgate Research and a Stalker 25 – @100 Gas, start Mothership Core @100% Stalker, start 1st Sentry @400 Mins, start Nexus Pause Probe production @150 Mins, start Gateway @100% 1st Sentry, start 2nd Sentry @100 Gas, start Robotics Facility Resume Probe production @100% Warpgate, warp-in 2 Zealots @100% Robotics Facility, start Immortal and Hallucinate a Phoenix to scout your opponent’s main base Benchmark: When your first Immortal finishes (@7:10ish), you should have 32 Probes, 1 Stalker, 2 Sentries, 2 Zealots, and a Mothership Core. Pretty sure this is the one you're looking for. | ||
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