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On July 28 2013 23:57 KingofGods wrote:
When going roach / hydra what is the ideal ratio for each? Are roaches only good to tank damage in this composition?
vs toss:
before hive: all gas into hydra, mins into overlord, few roaches, some lings
after hive: 2 vipers, all gas into roach, attack when vipers have full energy
vs zerg:
pure roach to at least 140 supply, more if he threatens to attack
max out with pure hydra
vs terran:
dont even bother
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How many bases do you need to have saturated at once? i mean, if i went super greedy within some minutes in game and got 4-5 bases, do i need 16mi/6ga for each? or do i need to have 3 saturated and the gases of the others? This is because when i usually got my 4th base i have low patches in my first so i transfers, but some times my opponent got 3 quick bases and i should get my 4th sooner.
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On July 29 2013 00:34 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:57 KingofGods wrote:
When going roach / hydra what is the ideal ratio for each? Are roaches only good to tank damage in this composition?
vs toss: before hive: all gas into hydra, mins into overlord, few roaches, some lings after hive: 2 vipers, all gas into roach, attack when vipers have full energy vs zerg: pure roach to at least 140 supply, more if he threatens to attack max out with pure hydra vs terran: dont even bother
I've been playing with roach hydra vs T and it works well enough. Plus it's a fun strategy to play with and it fights biomine straight up cost efficiently.
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I'm one of these players that has pretty alright macro up until 3rd base, and then starts floating. Are there any general tips on how to spend those minerals? I have a bad habit of getting supply blocked, and I think that certainly doesn't help but I doubt that's the real issue. It just feels like I can't produce enough units to actually keep my money low, and it feels scary for me to tech too soon after taking 3rd base. I do tend to be quite greedy with my drones early and midgame, so maybe I just have more money than I "should" have in that specific time of the game and I should just focus on teching up and building a shit ton of units. I don't know.
Advice? I'll provide a couple of replays of me playing on high gold level(I've been a high plat player for like the last 2 years, but for some reason Blizzard decided that I should be in gold this season instead, for unknown reason).
vP http://drop.sc/352006 - I lose pretty badly. Maybe someone could help me comment on if killing his warpin pylon with my swarm hosts was what made me lose so hard. I think I might have held it if I had ignored it and just went for his army instead. Also, I really should have taken the other 3rd since I was going SH.
vT http://drop.sc/352007 - I just win for denying his 3rd making it 5 base vs 2 base.
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You just need macro hatches. :/ Don't be afraid to put two down if you are floating over 1.5K.
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Can mothership be A) abducted by vipers B) neural parasited by infestors and then Recalled to Z base?
Just lost to a gold protoss (im diamond...) and it was infuriating as hell. I just want to fuck a mothership "based" strat completely, if it comes again.
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On July 29 2013 07:10 juusoko wrote:
Can mothership be A) abducted by vipers B) neural parasited by infestors and then Recalled to Z base?
Just lost to a gold protoss (im diamond...) and it was infuriating as hell. I just want to fuck a mothership "based" strat completely, if it comes again.
You can abduct, you can neural parasite and I imagine you can recall to a zerg base but I have never tried it haha.
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On July 29 2013 07:15 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 07:10 juusoko wrote:
Can mothership be A) abducted by vipers B) neural parasited by infestors and then Recalled to Z base?
Just lost to a gold protoss (im diamond...) and it was infuriating as hell. I just want to fuck a mothership "based" strat completely, if it comes again. You can abduct, you can neural parasite and I imagine you can recall to a zerg base but I have never tried it haha.
i tried and you cant recall
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On July 29 2013 01:30 Gchzr wrote:
How many bases do you need to have saturated at once? i mean, if i went super greedy within some minutes in game and got 4-5 bases, do i need 16mi/6ga for each? or do i need to have 3 saturated and the gases of the others? This is because when i usually got my 4th base i have low patches in my first so i transfers, but some times my opponent got 3 quick bases and i should get my 4th sooner.
if you had choice of saturation prob 75-80 followed by intense trading. the more drones you make the more you have to try and trade well though doing this is a surefire win its not always that easy as z.
if you are doing something really gas intensive you can mine 5 base gas but i wouldnt put more then 3 1/2 bases worth of mineral mining (56 drones)
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I keep losing my third to terran bio because I get contained by 4-8 hellions, I get up 2 queens and sometimes a spine and drone up, go lair, then take a third. Usually the bio force hits around now and I have no units, my lair is done, the baneling nest only just done. On maps where there's no overlord positioning near the natural I can't see them move out in time to morph banes after my ling scouting is denied by hellions.
Either way I get caught in this indecision on whether or not to take the 3rd base early after I see CC first or just drone up on 2 base first.
Would I be in a worse or better position against the bio timing after the hellion harass if I took a 3rd base early right after seeing CC first?
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On July 29 2013 16:08 DarKcS wrote:
I keep losing my third to terran bio because I get contained by 4-8 hellions, I get up 2 queens and sometimes a spine and drone up, go lair, then take a third. Usually the bio force hits around now and I have no units, my lair is done, the baneling nest only just done. On maps where there's no overlord positioning near the natural I can't see them move out in time to morph banes after my ling scouting is denied by hellions.
Either way I get caught in this indecision on whether or not to take the 3rd base early after I see CC first or just drone up on 2 base first.
Would I be in a worse or better position against the bio timing after the hellion harass if I took a 3rd base early right after seeing CC first?
Well whenever a terran takes an expansion (CC first, Reaper expand, 1 rax expand) you should always be taking a third between 5:30 - 6 minutes and no later. Versus CC first you can go 3 hatch before pool (15 hatch, 17 hatch, 17 pool, 17 overlord, 20 overlord).
Sacrificing an overlord at 6 minutes can be very critical because if terran is going to do some sort of aggression, you won't see a 3rd CC and you'll see more rax then normal. Also having roaches out on the map can be nice to so that you can see when the push from terran is coming, or you can try to overwhelm the hellions with lings.
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I over produce drones sooooo much. Last game I played I produced 156 drones... And he wasn't even harrasing me/killing a lot of drones. Are there any easy ways to avoid over producing drones? Two of the things that I die from the most is not having enough units and making too many drones. I need to find a way to balance my production more. Any tips?
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On July 29 2013 16:33 vonKlaust II wrote:
I over produce drones sooooo much. Last game I played I produced 156 drones... And he wasn't even harrasing me/killing a lot of drones. Are there any easy ways to avoid over producing drones? Two of the things that I die from the most is not having enough units and making too many drones. I need to find a way to balance my production more. Any tips?
Look at the saturation at your bases, you should only have 16 drones on minerals 3 per gas and at most have 4 saturated bases (this is about 85 drones). If you make 156 drones uh are you saturating like 7 bases?
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You still get extra income from over 16 right? I remember that chart..at how many drones does it drop to negligible return?
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do you guys think its worth to get roach warren + burrow to deal with gate expand into 4 gate pressure since it crushes 4 gate + you can delay his 3rd (burrowed ling + counter roach pressure)?
vs gate expand into 3 gate + forge: at which timing is WG ready + what are the gas + 3rd base timing for Z + when to take lingspeed, lair, roach warren? got some problems reading gate openings 
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On July 29 2013 16:53 DarKcS wrote:
You still get extra income from over 16 right? I remember that chart..at how many drones does it drop to negligible return?
Yes you do, but there is no reason to have over 16. It is once you get more then 24 drones (so 25+) where the income will not be any more then 24.
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On July 29 2013 16:57 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 16:53 DarKcS wrote:
You still get extra income from over 16 right? I remember that chart..at how many drones does it drop to negligible return? Yes you do, but there is no reason to have over 16. It is once you get more then 24 drones (so 25+) where the income will not be any more then 24.
IMO, it's fine to get over 16 drones if you can survive doing so.
20 drones is significantly more income than 16 drones. Above 20 drones, it becomes nearly negligible.
From what I remember watching Ret's games, he loves to oversaturate on drones.
I believe the idea is that zerg will eventually turn some drones into tech buildings, hatcheries, extractors and crawlers. By making the drones early, they can pay for the buildings they eventually turn into.
The main issue is surviving when you 'overdrone'. You not only lose the minerals that could be used for army, you also lose the larvae. Zerg is already often the 'defensive' race, and 'overdroning' will hurt your defense for some time.
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On July 29 2013 17:13 hearters wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 16:57 blade55555 wrote:On July 29 2013 16:53 DarKcS wrote:
You still get extra income from over 16 right? I remember that chart..at how many drones does it drop to negligible return? Yes you do, but there is no reason to have over 16. It is once you get more then 24 drones (so 25+) where the income will not be any more then 24. IMO, it's fine to get over 16 drones if you can survive doing so. 20 drones is significantly more income than 16 drones. Above 20 drones, it becomes nearly negligible. From what I remember watching Ret's games, he loves to oversaturate on drones. I believe the idea is that zerg will eventually turn some drones into tech buildings, hatcheries, extractors and crawlers. By making the drones early, they can pay for the buildings they eventually turn into. The main issue is surviving when you 'overdrone'. You not only lose the minerals that could be used for army, you also lose the larvae. Zerg is already often the 'defensive' race, and 'overdroning' will hurt your defense for some time.
oversaturated is much better then being under saturated, people make it sound soooo bad.
going over 16 is alright but 16 is a great amount because you are capable to create units and still be able to have enough to stock pile minerals expand for the most part.
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On July 29 2013 17:38 reps)squishy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 17:13 hearters wrote:On July 29 2013 16:57 blade55555 wrote:On July 29 2013 16:53 DarKcS wrote:
You still get extra income from over 16 right? I remember that chart..at how many drones does it drop to negligible return? Yes you do, but there is no reason to have over 16. It is once you get more then 24 drones (so 25+) where the income will not be any more then 24. IMO, it's fine to get over 16 drones if you can survive doing so. 20 drones is significantly more income than 16 drones. Above 20 drones, it becomes nearly negligible. From what I remember watching Ret's games, he loves to oversaturate on drones. I believe the idea is that zerg will eventually turn some drones into tech buildings, hatcheries, extractors and crawlers. By making the drones early, they can pay for the buildings they eventually turn into. The main issue is surviving when you 'overdrone'. You not only lose the minerals that could be used for army, you also lose the larvae. Zerg is already often the 'defensive' race, and 'overdroning' will hurt your defense for some time. oversaturated is much better then being under saturated, people make it sound soooo bad. going over 16 is alright but 16 is a great amount because you are capable to create units and still be able to have enough to stock pile minerals expand for the most part.
While true, if you have 4 bases it is better to have 4 bases with 16 mineral saturation then 3 bases with 20 and 1 with 4.
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Another adjustment I seem to be making I'm not sure if it's hurting my play, when I see a gateway opening I take gas immediately and don't take my 3rd until I have the minerals for it which can be almost 2 minutes later with queen+drone production constantly. Should I just take the 3rd right away? Sure..I've seen pros on stream do exactly what I just said I do by taking a late 3rd, but I hope it's not a really bad choice.
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EPT
