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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 15 2013 20:28 gronnelg wrote: Hey guys. I have a reasonable idea of when to take my first 4 gases in all MUs (thanks blade ^^). But when do you take the rest? I get mine as soon as I have 3rd base almost saturated. | ||
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-RusH
United States240 Posts
And in the Speed Roach Speed Bane all-in. Are you supposed to saturate the 3rd base fully? | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
What is the best way to deal with that? Mutas get shut down by halfcommited Phoenix. Everything on the ground gets shut down by 4+ Collossi (including Swarmhosts). He can kill you before Vipers get an issue. So..? | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
On July 16 2013 20:35 Mahtasooma wrote: In ZvP, suppose the P is going for FFE with Stargate and constant 1 Phoenix Production into Collosi / some Sentries / Zealots / whatnot. What is the best way to deal with that? Mutas get shut down by halfcommited Phoenix. Everything on the ground gets shut down by 4+ Collossi (including Swarmhosts). He can kill you before Vipers get an issue. So..? I generally steer away from mutas if I scout stargate. Hydra and SH, into Vipers should be able to hold. Then you can add ultras. Use locuts and ultra to keep colo and HT away from your SH/hydra/viper, and then use vipers to pull key units into your swarm. Edit: As long as you zone out the protoss splash damage, hydras should be able to protect your vipers. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On July 16 2013 11:31 -RusH wrote: Hi, regarding the roach baneling all in that suppy wrote in the OP. Are you suppose to get a 3rd queen as you normally do to creep spread or do you skip it? And in the Speed Roach Speed Bane all-in. Are you supposed to saturate the 3rd base fully? I Saw soulkey doing it vs innovation and he did saturate his third. | ||
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CivilAnarchy
United States59 Posts
On July 16 2013 20:35 Mahtasooma wrote: In ZvP, suppose the P is going for FFE with Stargate and constant 1 Phoenix Production into Collosi / some Sentries / Zealots / whatnot. What is the best way to deal with that? Mutas get shut down by halfcommited Phoenix. Everything on the ground gets shut down by 4+ Collossi (including Swarmhosts). He can kill you before Vipers get an issue. So..? If he's waiting for four collossi, you can definitely get up an air zerg force to deal with the push when it comes out. If you want to deal with the phoenix, then make 5-6 corrupters to protect them when you harass. Basically, if the Protoss isn't going double stargate in these situations, you can get away with producing enough mutas to kill them off. If they're doing this push off of two bases, then you should make sure you're on at least three, and when they decide to move out, decide whether or not you'd like to base trade, or use some lings to tank damage from stalker/sentry, and muta/corrupter to deal with the rest of the army. If they're going for a three base push, take a 4th and 5th, but only saturate the gases on those bases. As long as you upgrade correctly, you can probably kill them off with pure muta/corrupter. I personally prefer to base trade, while using the extra corrupters to make sure to kill the MSC, and it's almost always the case that Muta/Ling will kill a base faster than any death ball, if you do it correctly. | ||
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ysnake
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
Anyhow, I've recently returned to SC2 and I have a series of questions I'd like to ask regarding MUs. I've been watching Husky's channel lately just to get the grasp of how the MUs work, and here is where trouble emerges. I know Zerg is a "reactive" race and must act accordingly (although, all races must do that at some point), so there is no "I win strategy". Anyhow, I've been struggling as to what units to get against many compositions, here is what I am looking for: ZvP - In WoL, I used to be a heavy muta/ling oriented player, when Immortal/Sentry allins came about, as that was a direct counter to it. Anyhow, is it possible to do that currently? I've played several games against Protoss, and +1 Zealots beat me in that regard, as neither Mutas nor Lings are good at direct confrontations (granted, I do not possess Ling control as Stephano or Life, for example, does). Is it possible to make such a play work and what is the usual mid and late game composition I should be aiming for? Also, I have way too many excess minerals, at what time should I be getting the macro hatch if going for such a playstyle (my guess is when natural is saturated)? ZvT - From what I've experienced, Roach/Hydra works like a charm against the standard MMM+hellbat+mine push that comes around 10min mark, and quite decent at fending off the Hellbat drops. However, I am still struggling as what to get for mid-late game, should I go triple evo and pump my money into Ultras for a fast ling/ultra change or should I use Vipers along with Roach/Hydra? Also, is 140 APM good enough nowadays, I know I've been rusty, but that seems like a small number for me (I used to average around 280 APM in WoL). Thanks in advance  | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On July 17 2013 01:47 ysnake wrote: Hi all, high Diamond Zerg from WoL here (without being the patch zerg), could never break it into masters. Anyhow, I've recently returned to SC2 and I have a series of questions I'd like to ask regarding MUs. I've been watching Husky's channel lately just to get the grasp of how the MUs work, and here is where trouble emerges. I know Zerg is a "reactive" race and must act accordingly (although, all races must do that at some point), so there is no "I win strategy". Anyhow, I've been struggling as to what units to get against many compositions, here is what I am looking for: ZvP - In WoL, I used to be a heavy muta/ling oriented player, when Immortal/Sentry allins came about, as that was a direct counter to it. Anyhow, is it possible to do that currently? I've played several games against Protoss, and +1 Zealots beat me in that regard, as neither Mutas nor Lings are good at direct confrontations (granted, I do not possess Ling control as Stephano or Life, for example, does). Is it possible to make such a play work and what is the usual mid and late game composition I should be aiming for? Also, I have way too many excess minerals, at what time should I be getting the macro hatch if going for such a playstyle (my guess is when natural is saturated)? ZvT - From what I've experienced, Roach/Hydra works like a charm against the standard MMM+hellbat+mine push that comes around 10min mark, and quite decent at fending off the Hellbat drops. However, I am still struggling as what to get for mid-late game, should I go triple evo and pump my money into Ultras for a fast ling/ultra change or should I use Vipers along with Roach/Hydra? Also, is 140 APM good enough nowadays, I know I've been rusty, but that seems like a small number for me (I used to average around 280 APM in WoL). Thanks in advance Personally i love to play ling/muta against toss. Basically with the speed boost you can dart around their bases and use your mutas to draw them out and then hit with lings in other places. Just keep up with your ground and air upgrades and keep pumping out mutas. If you just never let them breathe you can just expand and finally go to ultras or do a huge SH switch. This works best against forge expand in my games and most of all is really fun style to play. | ||
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phalanx
France43 Posts
On July 17 2013 01:47 ysnake wrote: Also, is 140 APM good enough nowadays, I know I've been rusty, but that seems like a small number for me (I used to average around 280 APM in WoL). They changed the way to count the apm | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
When you scout his natural gases, what does that tell you? | ||
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MaSsan
United States143 Posts
On July 17 2013 16:29 gronnelg wrote: In ZvP: How do you determin the protoss build, bases on gas timings? When you scout his natural gases, what does that tell you? Depends on whether it's gateway expo or ffe(kinda obvious I think?) vs ffe, if he doesn't take gas by 7 min that means he's spending mineral elsewhere, like 3rd or mass gateways. quicker the gas, more tech he'll have from that point. | ||
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Marcinko
South Africa1014 Posts
On July 17 2013 01:47 ysnake wrote: Hi all, high Diamond Zerg from WoL here (without being the patch zerg), could never break it into masters. Anyhow, I've recently returned to SC2 and I have a series of questions I'd like to ask regarding MUs. I've been watching Husky's channel lately just to get the grasp of how the MUs work, and here is where trouble emerges. I know Zerg is a "reactive" race and must act accordingly (although, all races must do that at some point), so there is no "I win strategy". Anyhow, I've been struggling as to what units to get against many compositions, here is what I am looking for: ZvP - In WoL, I used to be a heavy muta/ling oriented player, when Immortal/Sentry allins came about, as that was a direct counter to it. Anyhow, is it possible to do that currently? I've played several games against Protoss, and +1 Zealots beat me in that regard, as neither Mutas nor Lings are good at direct confrontations (granted, I do not possess Ling control as Stephano or Life, for example, does). Is it possible to make such a play work and what is the usual mid and late game composition I should be aiming for? Also, I have way too many excess minerals, at what time should I be getting the macro hatch if going for such a playstyle (my guess is when natural is saturated)? ZvT - From what I've experienced, Roach/Hydra works like a charm against the standard MMM+hellbat+mine push that comes around 10min mark, and quite decent at fending off the Hellbat drops. However, I am still struggling as what to get for mid-late game, should I go triple evo and pump my money into Ultras for a fast ling/ultra change or should I use Vipers along with Roach/Hydra? Also, is 140 APM good enough nowadays, I know I've been rusty, but that seems like a small number for me (I used to average around 280 APM in WoL). Thanks in advance I would recommend you read this link by Blade. Should answer most of your questions. | ||
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v0rtex
123 Posts
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MaSsan
United States143 Posts
On July 18 2013 06:22 v0rtex wrote: I really like Snute's gasless ZvZ style however I am struggling with the current meta as if a zerg notices no gas, they just do speedling allin or speedling/baneling and I struggle to hold this if my roaches are not out ( I get a warren and double gas @ 36 supply and then 2 more gas when I have 2 base mineral saturation and 2 evo's when I am mining off 2 gas and have 100 gas in the bank followed by a lair asap). Is there a way I could do this style with an earlier gas (like 17 gas?) snute's gasless zvz is deisnged to stop ling bling all-in, so only problem u should have is when they just take 3rd and go super eco ahead of you. Stick to the build, and don't skip on things and you'll be fine. | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
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v0rtex
123 Posts
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Jay Arell
Norway33 Posts
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willstertben
427 Posts
how do you even battle this composition in hots? broods used to be the only answer in WOL but those effectively don't exist anymore cause tempest vs bl is like the hardest counter in the game. i don't like turtling so if there is a way without swarm hosts please tell me. i usually open roach hydra viper pressure but that obviously doesn't work against ht stuff. ultras get hard countered by immortal archon and cant do shit. swarm hosts seem like the only option? high master level | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
On July 18 2013 19:52 Jay Arell wrote: using the base cam inject method, how can i inject macro hatches? every time i try to inject when i have macro hatches, my queens just go berserk and go around everywhere. Do you mean backspace, or screenlocation? If you mean screenlocationdo the following: Sounds like you have all queens in one control group, correct? It's the same method I use. If you are injecting two hatches with the same queen, then you have to deselect the other queens first. The simplest way is to box the queen, inject, and then re-select the queen group to inject the rest of your bases. | ||
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Jay Arell
Norway33 Posts
On July 18 2013 22:13 gronnelg wrote: Do you mean backspace, or screenlocation? If you mean screenlocationdo the following: Sounds like you have all queens in one control group, correct? It's the same method I use. If you are injecting two hatches with the same queen, then you have to deselect the other queens first. The simplest way is to box the queen, inject, and then re-select the queen group to inject the rest of your bases. ok will try this. thanks! | ||
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