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On June 13 2013 04:50 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
ZvZ. I always try to ultralisks with lings and 3/3. Not sure how to react when I see mutas on the other side. At first its cool I can snipe bases because he does not have too many but then it just gets crazy. He can't attack me neither because I have 3-4 spores per bases.
Does that mean that I HAVE to play mutas if I see mutas on the other side? Not sure how to answer to mass mutas if I am uprading melee attack. At that point even hydras are not enough.
You could get some infestors. Either chainfungal them to death or let hydras outrange them while they are fungaled.
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On June 12 2013 06:30 Airking990 wrote:
What's a really good time to take your natural in lower leagues(bronze)? especially for gas-heavy builds
Against Terran, 15 hatch 16 pool. Against Protoss and Zerg 15 pool 16 hatch.
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Is there a list of common timings you will face as a zerg? I know there was one for WoL.
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On June 13 2013 05:05 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 04:50 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
ZvZ. I always try to ultralisks with lings and 3/3. Not sure how to react when I see mutas on the other side. At first its cool I can snipe bases because he does not have too many but then it just gets crazy. He can't attack me neither because I have 3-4 spores per bases.
Does that mean that I HAVE to play mutas if I see mutas on the other side? Not sure how to answer to mass mutas if I am uprading melee attack. At that point even hydras are not enough. You could get some infestors. Either chainfungal them to death or let hydras outrange them while they are fungaled.
Imo ideally you have good creep spread, some queens for transfusing ultras, infestors for fungal muta and anything else, and some hydra if hes really hardcore committed to muta. +armor upgrades scale well vs muta anyhow so u will be ok with 0/3 hydra vs 2/0 or 2/1 muta especially with queens helping to tank damage and a few infestors fungal.
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On June 13 2013 06:56 TheGreenMachine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 05:05 Henk wrote:On June 13 2013 04:50 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
ZvZ. I always try to ultralisks with lings and 3/3. Not sure how to react when I see mutas on the other side. At first its cool I can snipe bases because he does not have too many but then it just gets crazy. He can't attack me neither because I have 3-4 spores per bases.
Does that mean that I HAVE to play mutas if I see mutas on the other side? Not sure how to answer to mass mutas if I am uprading melee attack. At that point even hydras are not enough. You could get some infestors. Either chainfungal them to death or let hydras outrange them while they are fungaled. Imo ideally you have good creep spread, some queens for transfusing ultras, infestors for fungal muta and anything else, and some hydra if hes really hardcore committed to muta. +armor upgrades scale well vs muta anyhow so u will be ok with 0/3 hydra vs 2/0 or 2/1 muta especially with queens helping to tank damage and a few infestors fungal.
OK thanks for the tips. I will try that. It seems all my latest game when I try this stats I get run over by mass mutas. But adding hydras and infestors will surely cut into my ultras's number right?
Is there a safest way to get to ultras. Should I get infestors while @ lair tier so they can accumulate mana?
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Hey guys, I am having some big troubles with ZvP so far this season (and the end of last). I was top 8 Master last season so I'm looking for some good advice on build orders or general ideas for the mid game vs Protoss. I had some success last season with Host/Corrupter but that fell out of style and I can't seem to get it to work this season. If they completely neglect StarGate and I go my old Roach/Hydra play I can't seem to bust P any more. If they go StarGate I feel like I get so behind trying to defend and building spores that all my timings are off and I have to play towards the late game, where I usually get attacked before I have substantial forces and get rolled over anyway.
Tips on general midgame BO (ESPECIALLY EVO TIMINGS PLEASE!!!), gas timings, etc. Or general game play through Mid (Get hosts and be defensive until +2/+2 on three bases for example). Thanks!
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On June 13 2013 07:23 Mistakes wrote:
Hey guys, I am having some big troubles with ZvP so far this season (and the end of last). I was top 8 Master last season so I'm looking for some good advice on build orders or general ideas for the mid game vs Protoss. I had some success last season with Host/Corrupter but that fell out of style and I can't seem to get it to work this season. If they completely neglect StarGate and I go my old Roach/Hydra play I can't seem to bust P any more. If they go StarGate I feel like I get so behind trying to defend and building spores that all my timings are off and I have to play towards the late game, where I usually get attacked before I have substantial forces and get rolled over anyway.
Tips on general midgame BO (ESPECIALLY EVO TIMINGS PLEASE!!!), gas timings, etc. Or general game play through Mid (Get hosts and be defensive until +2/+2 on three bases for example). Thanks!
Snute did a decent overview of PvZ timings in the Pro Zerg Q&A thread which can be found here.
On May 28 2013 22:58 Liquid`Snute wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 21:47 KaiserJohan wrote:
What are the timings and their respective ingame time you should be worried about in ZvP if P goes FFE? From when could shit hit the fan? (7gate all-in, sentry-immortal allin, voidray gateway all-in etc) Generally it goes like this: 6:30-7:45 = Simple pressure, zealot, stalker, mothership, proxy pylon etc. stuff you want some lings/queens for. ~7:45 and onwards = warpgate pressure, +1 4-gate mass stalker/zealot attacks, proxy oracles, dt rush and stuff u want spores n roaches for. Later timings also include of warp prism in the main, 7gate attacks, stuff like that. 9:00+ = immortal allins, mass gate allins, stargate gateway allins, n other punchy builds.
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so what unit combos are good against what in ZvP now that SH/Corruptor isnt working anymore? or if it can still work, when is a good time to push and move out with it?
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On June 14 2013 01:40 Vestige wrote:
so what unit combos are good against what in ZvP now that SH/Corruptor isnt working anymore? or if it can still work, when is a good time to push and move out with it?
ZvP has turned into, in my opinion, one of the coolest, yet versatile MUs. It relies a LOT on base mechanics and desicion making, because really, so much can happen (example is white-ra carrier style, sOs style, dt zealot drops, magic johnson, mass mutas, swarm host viper etc).
So, a good way to transition INTO SH/corrupter is muta/corrupter, then stop muta production then switch into SHs. If you see him go stargate first, I would get hydras --> corrupter --> SH. Really, its up to you feeling in the moment to be able to do such a thing. Im not a SH person, so I would recommend waiting for another response.
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Vs a Gateway expanding protoss, when should I put my drones back in gas after I get ling speed and take my second gas? Does 6:00 for second geyser - put on double gas at 6:30 sound reasonable? (I play reactionary, usualy lots of roaches+hydras+corrupters, vs FFE at least).
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well other options are viable now other than going SH
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Since there isn't a BO list in the OP I have a few questions about standard play.
ZvT:
Vs reaper expand (either 11rax11gas or proxy into hellions before CC) when do I take a third?
What's a general safe lair and roach timing ?
Vs CC first, what's a safe time to drop a roach w vs standard hellion pokes?
ZvZ:
What's the current metagame? Roach hydra festor viable or is sling bane muta still the dominant playstyle?
ZvP:
Safe time for roach w vs 1g expo?
Safe time for roach w vs FFE / potential +1 4g?
Response to a phoenix opener = hydra or queen/sh or muta/corruptor?
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Need help ZvT if anyone would be so kind. Played a long game today and I felt like I played a good game, although things I picked up on leave something to be desired:
-Lost lots of drones cuz my speed was late with a strange opening I was playing with, but my opponents macro during his attack was poor and I was still ok after it.
-Creep not amazing
-Upgrades fairly slow
-Early brood switch was pretty dumb
-Vipers were too late and I lost half of them cuz I wasn't looking
-Infestors I'm starting to think are almost a must vs bio with ultras
-Wasn't quite ready for the first push and didn't have my banelings ready.
If anyone can pick up other things I could do better I'd be grateful 
Also drop plays is IMBA! JK but no really it's strong and I fell apart to it. It seems no matter how much static defence I have it still does damage. Do I have to stay on mutas for longer? Or do I just have to build even more static defence? Also he started just kinda sitting there building up mass thors, I got some vipers and ultras, although in hindsight vs his late game comp swarm hosts may have been really good, although then drops would have done even more. I'm just overall confused and need help . Also please excuse the BM...been watching Idra's stream too much ^_^ (I'm not normally an angry person, honest  ) Here's the rep. Thanks in advance <3
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Static defense pays off a ton once terran gets 2/2 and 3/3. His drops will naturally be very cost effective even if you respond rather quickly. The static D allows you to be on the map more with your army which I prefer so I make a crap ton of static D while I pressure his 3rd or 4th base with ultra+baneling+infestor. It also helps when ur going for broodlord too cuz thats a slow army. Thats my thought process, if your 6 spines prevents your one of 3 mining bases from getting killed. You just saved yourself a lot of headache and a lot of resources. He WILL drop you 80+% of the time. So be prepared especially if your map awareness, army split reaction time, or multi-tasking micro is not up to par static defense will help u out.
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On June 14 2013 01:40 Vestige wrote:
so what unit combos are good against what in ZvP now that SH/Corrupter isn't working anymore? or if it can still work, when is a good time to push and move out with it?
I've been having decent success with early swarm-hosts (8:30 pit) while fending off with roach-ling until they pop. Generally I will tech switch after getting 14 or so hosts and go into whatever seems to hard counter the toss.
For example if he's going for a mass air style I'll rush to hive and put down a hydra den for yoinks. If he isn't going air at all or has less than 2 stargates I'll do a muta/corrupter transition. If I scout him going for a quick third I won't make an infestation pit and instead will make a hydra den and hit at the around the 12 min mark (think Stephano style but with a solid hydra count).
A majority of my late-game ZvP's will revolve around a static defense forest and a hydra/roach/viper composition with semi-aggressive swarmhosts.
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On June 14 2013 03:00 DilemaH wrote:
Vs a Gateway expanding protoss, when should I put my drones back in gas after I get ling speed and take my second gas? Does 6:00 for second geyser - put on double gas at 6:30 sound reasonable? (I play reactionary, usualy lots of roaches+hydras+corrupters, vs FFE at least).
Against gateway expand I usually keep 3 in gas from when it finishes until the end of the game. Going Ling Speed -> Ovie Speed -> Lair. I get the rest of my gases once I saturate my minerals, and after saturating the gases I get a third.
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On June 14 2013 04:09 S7EFEN wrote:
Since there isn't a BO list in the OP I have a few questions about standard play.
ZvT:
Vs reaper expand (either 11rax11gas or proxy into hellions before CC) when do I take a third?
What's a general safe lair and roach timing ?
Vs CC first, what's a safe time to drop a roach w vs standard hellion pokes?
ZvZ:
What's the current metagame? Roach hydra festor viable or is sling bane muta still the dominant playstyle?
ZvP:
Safe time for roach w vs 1g expo?
Safe time for roach w vs FFE / potential +1 4g?
Response to a phoenix opener = hydra or queen/sh or muta/corruptor?
ZvT:
Reaper expand - Drop a gas around 2:35 (17 supply) and a pool at 16 supply right after that. Take dudes out of gas at 100 and then get speed after getting 2 sets of lings (Should be taking out of gas as pool finishes -> get double queen -> get 2 sets of lings -> get speed). If you don't think your micro is up to par you can wait until your queens are out to maynard your 3-4 workers to your natural. Drone up to 32 supply then get a third Queen and two ovies. With your first round of injects make 8-10 sets of lings and then expand to your third. Because he went reaper (and inevitably hellions) he won't be able to defend his cc and you can take a fairly decent lead.
I feel like I described that poorly so here's a replay: http://drop.sc/343091
ZvZ:
Muta ling is still viable. However instead of massing lings with extra mins you need to mass spines so you don't get steamrolled by a roach timing. After you feel you have sufficient map control you can start upgrading melee/carapace upgrades and transition into ultra infestor.
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Mid-high Master zerg asking a question:
Against a protoss who does 1 gate expo into 4 gate zealot+mothership core pressure. Whats your response? I can reliably scout the 4 gates at his nat and half the time i see his probe going out so I know what hes doing.
I dont even know what opening I should do vs gateway toss opener. To have roaches that early is pretty unrealistic as its not much later than a reg 4 gate. So if I go 3 hatch no gas is it possible to stay cost effective? If I go double upgrades on 2 base with later 3rd I can sit behind a spine, but then speedlings still okay to deal with the leftover ~8 zealots at my 3rd base?
Today he went for 8 zealots and 2 dt. Ran the dt to mineral line as the zealots attacked 3 queens and a spine as I was on 2 base still.
Maybe my build should be 2 base 3 queen (1 spine if he goes 4 gate walloff at front especially if I see a probe leave to proxy pylon). Then 1/1 upgrades, ling speed, then lair into 2/2 quick hive to ultra.
Once I get past the gateway expand part I can do fine vs protoss I just have to figure out the early game.
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I just switched to zerg and I am terrible. How do you hold these noob 1-base protoss all-ins? I am getting crushed and it is pathetic. I tried throwing down spines and getting speedlings out, but that did not work. I also tried going for fast hydras and failed. Any help is appreciated.
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On June 14 2013 08:10 shiftY803 wrote:
I just switched to zerg and I am terrible. How do you hold these noob 1-base protoss all-ins? I am getting crushed and it is pathetic.
If they haven't expanded by 5 mins make a roach warren, continue mining gas (Should start after you see they don't have a low ground pylon) and make spines.
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EPT
