EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 43
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Mefaso
Germany27 Posts
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joeyBanana
Germany77 Posts
EU Masters, US Diamond Z here. Can somebody help me reviewing this game ? Standard 3 Hatch Fast Gas vs Fast Expanding Protoss. He played some kind of Immortal / Sentry All-In, without the prism, and therefore one Extra-Immortal. Couldnt hold it with Ling / Hydra only. Do i need Roaches as meatshields, or should ive waited some more moments, to maximize my army supply ? I think the engagement at my future 4th was bad. Thought i could overwhelm him there, but didnt have enuff stuff. Help fellow Zergbros, thx in advance  | ||
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oob
Sweden630 Posts
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crfty
United States174 Posts
On April 29 2013 02:35 joeyBanana wrote:EU Masters, US Diamond Z here. Can somebody help me reviewing this game ? Standard 3 Hatch Fast Gas vs Fast Expanding Protoss. He played some kind of Immortal / Sentry All-In, without the prism, and therefore one Extra-Immortal. Couldnt hold it with Ling / Hydra only. Do i need Roaches as meatshields, or should ive waited some more moments, to maximize my army supply ? I think the engagement at my future 4th was bad. Thought i could overwhelm him there, but didnt have enuff stuff. I don't think you needed roaches there. The initial engagement was in a great spot for you on the ramp, that's why he backed off. You shouldn't have gone down that ramp, because he got some good FF's down and your army had to do a lot of extra moving around to try and attack him. Also, you were floating a good amount of resources, which leads me to think: a) you're injects weren't as good as they should have been, b) you weren't spending enough larva on Hydralisks, the more expensive and more useful unit in that situation. If you have ~1k of minerals and you see that coming, I would put down some spins at the 3rd [like 6+] and make him either fight into those or up the ramp to your natural. Patience is key! | ||
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xzumiex
Belgium100 Posts
On April 29 2013 02:47 oob wrote: Anyone got a "general" build order for the ZvP ling/ultra heavy upgrade style we saw from Leenock on DH? Looking for that aswell! http://nl.twitch.tv/dreamhacktv/b/396294648?t=9h01m57s | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
So am I, lol. VODs are up, and I'm racin' to them. | ||
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whitefenix
Sweden40 Posts
What do I build when it gets that late into the game? | ||
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
On April 29 2013 07:45 whitefenix wrote: Master Zerg here. Lategame ZvT when the terran goes Mech, what is the zerg supposed to do? The terran I played went mass tanks with viking support (10-15 vikings, rest tanks, with a few hellbats for lings) and no matter what I built I couldnt trade even close to cost efficiently. I was always up 1-2 bases, but it didn't matter. The composition I went for was ultra roach hydra, with 5-6 vipers for blinding cloud. I had great economy and huge banks but it just didn't matter because I couldn't trade even close to efficiently. What do I build when it gets that late into the game? You gotta put up a replay for questions like this because often it's not the other players unit combo that is the problem. Viking tank doesn't sound that scary. But I'm sure in context it might be. | ||
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CommanderS
Germany53 Posts
Should you cancel the spire or do you still go for the muta production? Or should you never go for a spire if you didn't confirm that he's not going stargate? Cause i feel like its pretty much impossible to fight phoenixes with mutalisks, even if you have 20 muta vs 5 phoenix, the protoss can still beat you easily with a little bit of micro. thx in advance | ||
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gamerdude12345
Korea (South)378 Posts
On April 29 2013 07:45 whitefenix wrote: Master Zerg here. Lategame ZvT when the terran goes Mech, what is the zerg supposed to do? The terran I played went mass tanks with viking support (10-15 vikings, rest tanks, with a few hellbats for lings) and no matter what I built I couldnt trade even close to cost efficiently. I was always up 1-2 bases, but it didn't matter. The composition I went for was ultra roach hydra, with 5-6 vipers for blinding cloud. I had great economy and huge banks but it just didn't matter because I couldn't trade even close to efficiently. What do I build when it gets that late into the game? vipers deal with mech quite easily, no matter the comp. Just rush to hive and make a few, you'll beat the mech ezpz | ||
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potsos
Greece18 Posts
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On April 30 2013 07:03 CommanderS wrote: Master Zerg here, in zvp, if you planned on going for mutalisks and already put down a spire, how do you react when scouting that he went stargate? Should you cancel the spire or do you still go for the muta production? Or should you never go for a spire if you didn't confirm that he's not going stargate? Cause i feel like its pretty much impossible to fight phoenixes with mutalisks, even if you have 20 muta vs 5 phoenix, the protoss can still beat you easily with a little bit of micro. thx in advance You have 2 choices : Cancel the spire and go for a ground based army Still commit into air (why not if you like it) and add corruptors and vipers. That's the best way to deal with phoenixes when going mutalisks, thanks to viper abduct and corruptors tanking. | ||
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CamoDaz
United Kingdom19 Posts
Is the Leenock style of quick ultra and upgrades only useful in situations such as the NaNiwa build or can it be used against a FFE Protoss? I haven't tried the build but with ZvP being my worst MU I wondered whether its worth giving at shot. Thanks in advance | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On April 30 2013 22:09 CamoDaz wrote: Plat Zerg here, Is the Leenock style of quick ultra and upgrades only useful in situations such as the NaNiwa build or can it be used against a FFE Protoss? I haven't tried the build but with ZvP being my worst MU I wondered whether its worth giving at shot. Thanks in advance I personally do a similiar build, but totally all-inish, with lot of speed-banes to support my ultras. I have to kill the toss on my 3-3 timing. I win most of the times, it's very, very strong. Especially on open maps. This build can be used whatever the protoss does. It's hardcountered by immortal/archons. | ||
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W3G_Glake
United States11 Posts
I was wondering where exactly I could find new Zerg builds that are popular within the meta, or even builds for other races that are popular within the meta. Only reason why I ask is I here a lot of people talking about certain pro-gamers builds in which they saw at tournaments and what not, and I just wanted to know if these were documented somewhere for other people to learn. Any links, tips, or info would be appreciated. | ||
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TFS
United States53 Posts
On April 29 2013 02:35 joeyBanana wrote: http://drop.sc/328384 EU Masters, US Diamond Z here. Can somebody help me reviewing this game ? Standard 3 Hatch Fast Gas vs Fast Expanding Protoss. He played some kind of Immortal / Sentry All-In, without the prism, and therefore one Extra-Immortal. Couldnt hold it with Ling / Hydra only. Do i need Roaches as meatshields, or should ive waited some more moments, to maximize my army supply ? I think the engagement at my future 4th was bad. Thought i could overwhelm him there, but didnt have enuff stuff. Help fellow Zergbros, thx in advance Hello. A few things I noticed in analyzing the replay: As another poster has already pointed out, the point at which you move down the ramp at your natural to confront his army is probably the point where you lost the game. You had a great concave setup that your opponent had no chance of breaking...until you moved all of your speedless Hydras off of creep only to get forcefielded and then potshotted as you tried to run away. You could have held the push no problem if you had stood your ground at your ramp, and moved to defend your third if need be. On another note, I have some general tips for improving your build against this all-in from Protoss. You take a gas around 4:50 or 5:00, and I'm not really sure why. If you take two gases at 6:00 instead, you can start your lair at the same time and use the minerals/drones earlier in the game to get, well, more minerals and drones. I use a similar style to you, rushing lair and hydras, but by taking gas at 6:00, I end up with more drones, more supply, an extra queen, and even a contingency roach warren by the 8:00 mark. Overall, there are just some macro things you could tighten up to improve your ability to hold against this build. Your hydras were, in effect, about 45 seconds late because of you starting your lair late, starting your hydra den late, and starting your hydras late. The lair was the most egregious error, being about 30 seconds late, while the den and the hydras themselves were between 5 and 10 seconds late each, resulting in much slower hydras. Make sure you morph the lair as soon as you get 100 gas, otherwise it was a waste to start mining gas when you did. The above may not sound too important, but it is key to note that your opponent didn't do an entirely efficient rendition of a sentry immortal all-in. He moved out after 10:00 (granted, with an extra warp in or two) whereas a flawless sentry immortal push can push out by 9:00, and reach you by 9:45 or 10:00, if uninterrupted. By tightening up your macro and making the adjustments I suggested, you can still have hydras out in time to deal with such a push. Also, you can start hydra production earlier for pushes that intend to move out later. All in all, it would be a boon for you to make some small adjustments. These are just my two cents, coming from someone who has put a lot of time and mental effort into how to cope with this build from Protoss. EDIT: I also wanted to point out that your opponent did not have an "extra immortal." 3 is the 100% standard number to obtain when executing this push. He just chose not to build a warp prism after for whatever reason. | ||
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loginn
France815 Posts
On May 01 2013 09:18 W3G_Glake wrote: Hey guys, Bronze Zerg here, and overall new to the competitive scene of SC. I was wondering where exactly I could find new Zerg builds that are popular within the meta, or even builds for other races that are popular within the meta. Only reason why I ask is I here a lot of people talking about certain pro-gamers builds in which they saw at tournaments and what not, and I just wanted to know if these were documented somewhere for other people to learn. Any links, tips, or info would be appreciated. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402758 These threads will probably prove helpful in your quest for decent BOs | ||
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Jinxeth
Denmark33 Posts
I've had a few games that turned into the Terran dealing a blow to my main/natural, as I deny his fourth/third. After that, I kinda wonder if I am forced into sitting tight till I can get up Mutalisks again? I'm tired of running around to catch medivacs all over the map, even if it usually ends with me winning. Spending 20 minutes doing this feels awful. | ||
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
On May 01 2013 11:21 Jinxeth wrote: Am I forced to make a new pack of Mutalisks towards the lategame in ZvT if my earlier pack died? I've had a few games that turned into the Terran dealing a blow to my main/natural, as I deny his fourth/third. After that, I kinda wonder if I am forced into sitting tight till I can get up Mutalisks again? I'm tired of running around to catch medivacs all over the map, even if it usually ends with me winning. Spending 20 minutes doing this feels awful. Welcome to ZvT. Ya you're gonna spend the majority of the game watching your minimap for medivacs no matter what you do. Have good creep spread and overlord positioning to make this easier. Also burrow some lings around the map and use changlings whenever you can. As far as the mutas go for late game I wouldn't remake mutas. Instead make some corruptors, for all the reasons that I mention here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408729 in the second part, they are better late game. It's not very cost effective to attack a terran with mines so you're going to be playing wack-a-mole with dropships until a good opportunity or the right unit combo allows you to do some counter pressure. | ||
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Dragnor
10 Posts
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