• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:10
CEST 07:10
KST 14:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation5$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced4Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles5[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
i aint gon lie to u bruh... ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 634 users

The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 33

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 269 Next
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-13 15:30:45
April 13 2013 14:47 GMT
#641
On April 13 2013 23:21 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Just played a ZvT against a plat terran, im diamond zerg.

Lost from MASS WIDOW MINES. I don't know to beat this.

He started with widow mine drops, 2 on each base of mine at the same time, i had a spire + spine at each base, but wasn't enough. Then, he pushes out a few minutes later with around 20 widow mines, and 3 vikings to kill my overseers if I had any. After losing A LOT, I manage to clean up the mines with roaches, only to see another push coming with the same amount of mines, 2 ravens, 2 battle cruisers, and a few vikings. I tried to combat this with ~20 mutes and my remaining roaches but Instantly got slammed. I spread my mutas out but he had enough widow mines that it didn't even matter.


What do we do vs mass widow mines?

Edit: just watched replay, at one point he was 40 window mines lol.


if it really is 40mines.

Make 10 swarm hosts, get range, and several overseers.
Nothing quite like getting rid of t ALL of them mines for free.
Also: get a few infesters to protect your swarm hosts from charging bio

EDIT: Something that is really really amusing to do is this. If they are mmmm. move command your locust behind the bio. so all the bio gets splashed by the mines.
smOOthMayDie
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States997 Posts
April 13 2013 14:58 GMT
#642
Okay, thank you. I'll try that out.
twitch.tv/TKSaga twitter.com/TKSagaTV YT: Tinyurl.com/TKSaga
Atlasy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Hungary229 Posts
April 13 2013 15:02 GMT
#643
I have 2 questions:

I know that in ZvZ Flyer carapace is insanely better than attack. What about the other matchups? What should I get for my mutas? Or for my corruptors?

The other one is that, how can you stack overlords? I've seen it so many times that pros stack their overlords but I can't understand how they do it.
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
April 13 2013 15:15 GMT
#644
On April 14 2013 00:02 Atlasy wrote:
I have 2 questions:

I know that in ZvZ Flyer carapace is insanely better than attack. What about the other matchups? What should I get for my mutas? Or for my corruptors?

The other one is that, how can you stack overlords? I've seen it so many times that pros stack their overlords but I can't understand how they do it.


Select all overlords, then click on something like a spore.

In other matchups, attack is most likely better than carapace, because you won't be 'fighting' with them, but mostly using them to harass. Mutas die to marines anyway, not matter what their armor is at.
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
April 13 2013 15:29 GMT
#645
On April 14 2013 00:02 Atlasy wrote:
I have 2 questions:

I know that in ZvZ Flyer carapace is insanely better than attack. What about the other matchups? What should I get for my mutas? Or for my corruptors?

The other one is that, how can you stack overlords? I've seen it so many times that pros stack their overlords but I can't understand how they do it.


Vs muta, Carapace
Vs Roach hydra or 1//1 lings, Weapons

Vs protoss (except for pheonix) Weapons,
Vs Pheonix, Carapace (this is if they see you have mutas on the field, and try to get air once your muta is already out)

Vs Terran, carapace.

As for stacking, I just right click my air group back and forth in a line, until they are stacked.
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
April 13 2013 15:45 GMT
#646
i've been struggling with my mid-game zvp since HOTS and can't seem to find a build that works. the only time i have success against toss is when they go for a quick 3 base because I can get to the tech of my choosing and do well by it. when they are on two base, I still struggle to hold immortal sentry or the new voidray/gate plays.

my zvp midgame was a struggle in wol as well, so the additions that hots brought haven't been helping

i am a diamond zerg so my mechanics aren't top notch, but i'd to believe there is something about 2 base protoss that i'm just completely missing.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-13 16:13:38
April 13 2013 16:12 GMT
#647
On April 14 2013 00:45 BluemoonSC wrote:
i've been struggling with my mid-game zvp since HOTS and can't seem to find a build that works. the only time i have success against toss is when they go for a quick 3 base because I can get to the tech of my choosing and do well by it. when they are on two base, I still struggle to hold immortal sentry or the new voidray/gate plays.

my zvp midgame was a struggle in wol as well, so the additions that hots brought haven't been helping

i am a diamond zerg so my mechanics aren't top notch, but i'd to believe there is something about 2 base protoss that i'm just completely missing.


try this vs 2 base allins:

vs gateway only and blinkstalker allins: get burrow and roach ling (vs blink all ins with roachspeed)

vs sentry immortal allin: get 7:10 lair, IP, locust upgrade and get swarmhosts. stall his push as long as possible with lings and build 1-2 spines to stall for your swarmhosts.

vs stargate + gateway allins: i recommend getting 2 spores per base uppon scouting stargate (since P players will get up to 6 phoenix which dont care if 1 spore shoots them...some days ago a Z in GSL or GSTL did get 2 per base and this is much better economywise than losing drones and ovis imo) and get 1-2 extra queens. once you scout his allin incoming build roaches and reposition your spores where the attack will be + bring queens (and rebuild new ones). always fight at your 2-3 spores and focus fire his voids with queens + spores. once his air is dead you should be fine with roaches.
schach
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada35 Posts
April 13 2013 19:23 GMT
#648
played 2 zvz's today, and lost both to straight muta's...not muta/ling, not muta/infestor, not muta/x, just plain mutas. I'm more of a fan of roach/hydra/infestor, and in both games i tried to go with that, but both zergs just spammed mutas the whole game. The second game the guy had about 60. All they do is contain, and slowly they just starve me out. Do i have to just suck it up and go muta in every zvz? even when i built straight hydras, I couldn't keep up with the harass/mass of mutas.
any advice would help,
thanks
Incubus1993
Profile Joined February 2013
Canada140 Posts
April 13 2013 19:51 GMT
#649
On two player maps would Queen, Infestor, Roach be viable against Muta, Ling, Bane? Say use a nydus worm outside of their third or natural to transport the Queens and Infestors around safely instead of going across the map really slow. Transfuse/fungal/and the Queen AA would deal with Mutas pretty handily (I'm pretty sure its cost effective) and Roaches obviously compete with ling bane really well.

I play at a high diamond/low master level. Just wondering if this is a playable alternative on two player maps for ZvZ. Would love some insight.

Thanks - Incubus
"I like to keep an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out."
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-13 23:30:12
April 13 2013 23:27 GMT
#650
On April 14 2013 04:51 Incubus1993 wrote:
On two player maps would Queen, Infestor, Roach be viable against Muta, Ling, Bane? Say use a nydus worm outside of their third or natural to transport the Queens and Infestors around safely instead of going across the map really slow. Transfuse/fungal/and the Queen AA would deal with Mutas pretty handily (I'm pretty sure its cost effective) and Roaches obviously compete with ling bane really well.

I play at a high diamond/low master level. Just wondering if this is a playable alternative on two player maps for ZvZ. Would love some insight.

Thanks - Incubus


Yes, you can definitely do this. However, it's an all in and if it's spotted you simply lose. It's quite effective if you manage to get everything through the nydus though. (I'm mid/high master)

On April 14 2013 04:23 schach wrote:
played 2 zvz's today, and lost both to straight muta's...not muta/ling, not muta/infestor, not muta/x, just plain mutas. I'm more of a fan of roach/hydra/infestor, and in both games i tried to go with that, but both zergs just spammed mutas the whole game. The second game the guy had about 60. All they do is contain, and slowly they just starve me out. Do i have to just suck it up and go muta in every zvz? even when i built straight hydras, I couldn't keep up with the harass/mass of mutas.
any advice would help,
thanks


Plain mutas doesn't work, because you'd never be able to attack because whenever you'd move out with mutas, you'd get counterattacked by lings. That's why it's usually ling/muta vs ling/muta nowadays. Anyway: I'm afraid I'm going to have to tell you to suck it up for now. If you go hydras the other player should react by getting banespeed and getting 1/1 and going into ultras. When you attack with roach/hydra the banelings roll over your hydras. If you wait until hydra/infestor are out, chances are he's got ultras. Ultras rip through your army like there's no tomorrow.. So.. Unless you get an early lead by doing something like a roach timing which he didn't scout/didn't react to, I'd say you should just go mutas until blizz finds a way to alter the MU.
HollowCost
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada5 Posts
April 14 2013 07:38 GMT
#651
ZvP
Is there a standard way to play vs protosses that open 1 gate nexus or 1 gate core nexus? I am completely lost vs tosses that don't open FFE as I don't know when I should get gasses, when I should get a warren, when I should get a lair, when I should get my third base, etc. I either make early lings that hurt my economy and then die to a timing that I don't scout or I get gasses/warren/lair/3rd too early or late and that alone ruins it for me. I'm completely clueless.
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
April 14 2013 07:58 GMT
#652
On April 14 2013 16:38 HollowCost wrote:
ZvP
Is there a standard way to play vs protosses that open 1 gate nexus or 1 gate core nexus? I am completely lost vs tosses that don't open FFE as I don't know when I should get gasses, when I should get a warren, when I should get a lair, when I should get my third base, etc. I either make early lings that hurt my economy and then die to a timing that I don't scout or I get gasses/warren/lair/3rd too early or late and that alone ruins it for me. I'm completely clueless.


Get gas when you see him opening gate to get ling speed. Get a third base when you see him putting down his natural nexus. After that, continue playing as always.
HollowCost
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada5 Posts
April 14 2013 08:05 GMT
#653
On April 14 2013 16:58 Henk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2013 16:38 HollowCost wrote:
ZvP
Is there a standard way to play vs protosses that open 1 gate nexus or 1 gate core nexus? I am completely lost vs tosses that don't open FFE as I don't know when I should get gasses, when I should get a warren, when I should get a lair, when I should get my third base, etc. I either make early lings that hurt my economy and then die to a timing that I don't scout or I get gasses/warren/lair/3rd too early or late and that alone ruins it for me. I'm completely clueless.


Get gas when you see him opening gate to get ling speed. Get a third base when you see him putting down his natural nexus. After that, continue playing as always.


I mean I can't get a roach warren at 7 minutes... that's too late vs 1 gate openers... and if I have to get a warren earlier than I definitely have to get gasses earlier.... and if I have to stop an attack then I can't afford lair... I don't know the timings for these vs say a 7:30 4gate or 5gate attack or a 6:30 stargate pressure, etc.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
April 14 2013 08:38 GMT
#654
Then dont rely on timings. People won't play the game to your standards and timings in cases like these, get used to it
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
ApocAlypsE007
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Israel1007 Posts
April 14 2013 09:47 GMT
#655
Hi
I was Master Protoss in WoL, in HotS I decided to reach masters with every race starting with Zerg. (ATM im Plat, still need a method to keep the inject smooth and need to have a set up plan to have my macro rolling)
As I understand, ZvZ in HotS is basically Muta vs Muta wars. I don't have many problems reaching the Muta phase, I just lost why the Mutas are the best current midgame. Almost every time I go Mutas I get shot down by Hydras, Queens and Spores, and usually when the opponent moves out they have enough Spores so I can't base race them. What am I missing to fight this? And why in pro level play we don't see those kind of attempts to fight Mutas?
I'm playing the game, the one that will take me to my end, i'm waiting for the rain, TO WASH-- WHO I AM!!!
ManiacTheZealot
Profile Joined December 2009
United States490 Posts
April 14 2013 11:02 GMT
#656
On April 14 2013 18:47 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Hi
I was Master Protoss in WoL, in HotS I decided to reach masters with every race starting with Zerg. (ATM im Plat, still need a method to keep the inject smooth and need to have a set up plan to have my macro rolling)
As I understand, ZvZ in HotS is basically Muta vs Muta wars. I don't have many problems reaching the Muta phase, I just lost why the Mutas are the best current midgame. Almost every time I go Mutas I get shot down by Hydras, Queens and Spores, and usually when the opponent moves out they have enough Spores so I can't base race them. What am I missing to fight this? And why in pro level play we don't see those kind of attempts to fight Mutas?


On the simplest level you're not missing anything about mutas. However what you haven't seen yet is the effectiveness of banelings/zergling against hydralisks. This can buy the muta player a large amount of time with map control. When you aren't facing another player who is also making mutalisks making a bunch of them isn't very effective.
StillRooney
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden106 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-14 12:01:27
April 14 2013 11:15 GMT
#657
Heya peeps. My ZvP is pretty weak at the moment because I don't really feel that I understand the matchup very well. This game the P went very early third that he cannoned up like crazy and went into total airtoss. I'd love some critique on what my biggest leaks are and what I could have done better. Thanks in advance!
http://drop.sc/323604
Azoryen
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Portugal242 Posts
April 14 2013 11:32 GMT
#658
I have trouble dealing with early banshees.
My main problem is determining if he's going for several banshees or only 1-2.
I sometimes assume it's only the standard 1-2 and lose to like 8 banshees because I don't have enough AA.

When this happens, even if I have planted 2 spores at each base, he just comes from one side and kills 1 spore and then gets in range to kill the hatch. If I try to move the other spore it wont root in time.

Even when I scout startport with tech lab, you never now with terran because he can just switch it with factory.

One a side note, what's the best build (passive or agressive) do deal with the multitude of threads T has in the early game?
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
April 14 2013 14:35 GMT
#659
On April 14 2013 20:32 Azoryen wrote:
I have trouble dealing with early banshees.
My main problem is determining if he's going for several banshees or only 1-2.
I sometimes assume it's only the standard 1-2 and lose to like 8 banshees because I don't have enough AA.

When this happens, even if I have planted 2 spores at each base, he just comes from one side and kills 1 spore and then gets in range to kill the hatch. If I try to move the other spore it wont root in time.

Even when I scout startport with tech lab, you never now with terran because he can just switch it with factory.

One a side note, what's the best build (passive or agressive) do deal with the multitude of threads T has in the early game?

Just scout later after you saw the first 1-2 banshees to check what is his follow up.

If you see more banshees or if the starport still have a lab on it, you can assume it will be several banshees and not only 1-2.
Giganthrax
Profile Joined July 2012
Serbia19 Posts
April 14 2013 15:47 GMT
#660
How do you beat a turtling terran who gets turrets, planetaries, mech, and widow mines, then goes into mass air? What composition do you go for?

Broodlords seem like the overall best idea, but it seems like the terran is capable of just mass-producing vikings and destroying whatever broodlord force I get + teching directly for broodlords opens me up to all sorts of midgame pushes that I cant defend.
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 269 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 50m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft496
Nina 219
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 284
PianO 128
Noble 28
Icarus 11
Dota 2
monkeys_forever717
League of Legends
JimRising 769
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K55
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox526
Other Games
summit1g7143
shahzam896
ViBE222
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick44682
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH307
• practicex 122
• Hupsaiya 60
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1075
• masondota2567
• Stunt326
• Lourlo284
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
4h 50m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
10h 50m
WardiTV European League
10h 50m
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
18h 50m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
FEL
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.