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On April 13 2013 23:21 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Just played a ZvT against a plat terran, im diamond zerg.
Lost from MASS WIDOW MINES. I don't know to beat this.
He started with widow mine drops, 2 on each base of mine at the same time, i had a spire + spine at each base, but wasn't enough. Then, he pushes out a few minutes later with around 20 widow mines, and 3 vikings to kill my overseers if I had any. After losing A LOT, I manage to clean up the mines with roaches, only to see another push coming with the same amount of mines, 2 ravens, 2 battle cruisers, and a few vikings. I tried to combat this with ~20 mutes and my remaining roaches but Instantly got slammed. I spread my mutas out but he had enough widow mines that it didn't even matter.
What do we do vs mass widow mines?
Edit: just watched replay, at one point he was 40 window mines lol.
if it really is 40mines.
Make 10 swarm hosts, get range, and several overseers.
Nothing quite like getting rid of t ALL of them mines for free.
Also: get a few infesters to protect your swarm hosts from charging bio
EDIT: Something that is really really amusing to do is this. If they are mmmm. move command your locust behind the bio. so all the bio gets splashed by the mines.
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Okay, thank you. I'll try that out.
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I have 2 questions:
I know that in ZvZ Flyer carapace is insanely better than attack. What about the other matchups? What should I get for my mutas? Or for my corruptors?
The other one is that, how can you stack overlords? I've seen it so many times that pros stack their overlords but I can't understand how they do it.
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On April 14 2013 00:02 Atlasy wrote:
I have 2 questions:
I know that in ZvZ Flyer carapace is insanely better than attack. What about the other matchups? What should I get for my mutas? Or for my corruptors?
The other one is that, how can you stack overlords? I've seen it so many times that pros stack their overlords but I can't understand how they do it.
Select all overlords, then click on something like a spore.
In other matchups, attack is most likely better than carapace, because you won't be 'fighting' with them, but mostly using them to harass. Mutas die to marines anyway, not matter what their armor is at.
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On April 14 2013 00:02 Atlasy wrote:
I have 2 questions:
I know that in ZvZ Flyer carapace is insanely better than attack. What about the other matchups? What should I get for my mutas? Or for my corruptors?
The other one is that, how can you stack overlords? I've seen it so many times that pros stack their overlords but I can't understand how they do it.
Vs muta, Carapace
Vs Roach hydra or 1//1 lings, Weapons
Vs protoss (except for pheonix) Weapons,
Vs Pheonix, Carapace (this is if they see you have mutas on the field, and try to get air once your muta is already out)
Vs Terran, carapace.
As for stacking, I just right click my air group back and forth in a line, until they are stacked.
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SoCal8910 Posts
i've been struggling with my mid-game zvp since HOTS and can't seem to find a build that works. the only time i have success against toss is when they go for a quick 3 base because I can get to the tech of my choosing and do well by it. when they are on two base, I still struggle to hold immortal sentry or the new voidray/gate plays.
my zvp midgame was a struggle in wol as well, so the additions that hots brought haven't been helping
i am a diamond zerg so my mechanics aren't top notch, but i'd to believe there is something about 2 base protoss that i'm just completely missing.
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On April 14 2013 00:45 BluemoonSC wrote:
i've been struggling with my mid-game zvp since HOTS and can't seem to find a build that works. the only time i have success against toss is when they go for a quick 3 base because I can get to the tech of my choosing and do well by it. when they are on two base, I still struggle to hold immortal sentry or the new voidray/gate plays.
my zvp midgame was a struggle in wol as well, so the additions that hots brought haven't been helping
i am a diamond zerg so my mechanics aren't top notch, but i'd to believe there is something about 2 base protoss that i'm just completely missing.
try this vs 2 base allins:
vs gateway only and blinkstalker allins: get burrow and roach ling (vs blink all ins with roachspeed)
vs sentry immortal allin: get 7:10 lair, IP, locust upgrade and get swarmhosts. stall his push as long as possible with lings and build 1-2 spines to stall for your swarmhosts.
vs stargate + gateway allins: i recommend getting 2 spores per base uppon scouting stargate (since P players will get up to 6 phoenix which dont care if 1 spore shoots them...some days ago a Z in GSL or GSTL did get 2 per base and this is much better economywise than losing drones and ovis imo) and get 1-2 extra queens. once you scout his allin incoming build roaches and reposition your spores where the attack will be + bring queens (and rebuild new ones). always fight at your 2-3 spores and focus fire his voids with queens + spores. once his air is dead you should be fine with roaches.
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played 2 zvz's today, and lost both to straight muta's...not muta/ling, not muta/infestor, not muta/x, just plain mutas. I'm more of a fan of roach/hydra/infestor, and in both games i tried to go with that, but both zergs just spammed mutas the whole game. The second game the guy had about 60. All they do is contain, and slowly they just starve me out. Do i have to just suck it up and go muta in every zvz? even when i built straight hydras, I couldn't keep up with the harass/mass of mutas.
any advice would help,
thanks
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On two player maps would Queen, Infestor, Roach be viable against Muta, Ling, Bane? Say use a nydus worm outside of their third or natural to transport the Queens and Infestors around safely instead of going across the map really slow. Transfuse/fungal/and the Queen AA would deal with Mutas pretty handily (I'm pretty sure its cost effective) and Roaches obviously compete with ling bane really well.
I play at a high diamond/low master level. Just wondering if this is a playable alternative on two player maps for ZvZ. Would love some insight.
Thanks - Incubus
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On April 14 2013 04:51 Incubus1993 wrote:
On two player maps would Queen, Infestor, Roach be viable against Muta, Ling, Bane? Say use a nydus worm outside of their third or natural to transport the Queens and Infestors around safely instead of going across the map really slow. Transfuse/fungal/and the Queen AA would deal with Mutas pretty handily (I'm pretty sure its cost effective) and Roaches obviously compete with ling bane really well.
I play at a high diamond/low master level. Just wondering if this is a playable alternative on two player maps for ZvZ. Would love some insight.
Thanks - Incubus
Yes, you can definitely do this. However, it's an all in and if it's spotted you simply lose. It's quite effective if you manage to get everything through the nydus though. (I'm mid/high master)
On April 14 2013 04:23 schach wrote:
played 2 zvz's today, and lost both to straight muta's...not muta/ling, not muta/infestor, not muta/x, just plain mutas. I'm more of a fan of roach/hydra/infestor, and in both games i tried to go with that, but both zergs just spammed mutas the whole game. The second game the guy had about 60. All they do is contain, and slowly they just starve me out. Do i have to just suck it up and go muta in every zvz? even when i built straight hydras, I couldn't keep up with the harass/mass of mutas.
any advice would help,
thanks
Plain mutas doesn't work, because you'd never be able to attack because whenever you'd move out with mutas, you'd get counterattacked by lings. That's why it's usually ling/muta vs ling/muta nowadays. Anyway: I'm afraid I'm going to have to tell you to suck it up for now. If you go hydras the other player should react by getting banespeed and getting 1/1 and going into ultras. When you attack with roach/hydra the banelings roll over your hydras. If you wait until hydra/infestor are out, chances are he's got ultras. Ultras rip through your army like there's no tomorrow.. So.. Unless you get an early lead by doing something like a roach timing which he didn't scout/didn't react to, I'd say you should just go mutas until blizz finds a way to alter the MU.
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ZvP
Is there a standard way to play vs protosses that open 1 gate nexus or 1 gate core nexus? I am completely lost vs tosses that don't open FFE as I don't know when I should get gasses, when I should get a warren, when I should get a lair, when I should get my third base, etc. I either make early lings that hurt my economy and then die to a timing that I don't scout or I get gasses/warren/lair/3rd too early or late and that alone ruins it for me. I'm completely clueless.
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On April 14 2013 16:38 HollowCost wrote:
ZvP
Is there a standard way to play vs protosses that open 1 gate nexus or 1 gate core nexus? I am completely lost vs tosses that don't open FFE as I don't know when I should get gasses, when I should get a warren, when I should get a lair, when I should get my third base, etc. I either make early lings that hurt my economy and then die to a timing that I don't scout or I get gasses/warren/lair/3rd too early or late and that alone ruins it for me. I'm completely clueless.
Get gas when you see him opening gate to get ling speed. Get a third base when you see him putting down his natural nexus. After that, continue playing as always.
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On April 14 2013 16:58 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 16:38 HollowCost wrote:
ZvP
Is there a standard way to play vs protosses that open 1 gate nexus or 1 gate core nexus? I am completely lost vs tosses that don't open FFE as I don't know when I should get gasses, when I should get a warren, when I should get a lair, when I should get my third base, etc. I either make early lings that hurt my economy and then die to a timing that I don't scout or I get gasses/warren/lair/3rd too early or late and that alone ruins it for me. I'm completely clueless. Get gas when you see him opening gate to get ling speed. Get a third base when you see him putting down his natural nexus. After that, continue playing as always.
I mean I can't get a roach warren at 7 minutes... that's too late vs 1 gate openers... and if I have to get a warren earlier than I definitely have to get gasses earlier.... and if I have to stop an attack then I can't afford lair... I don't know the timings for these vs say a 7:30 4gate or 5gate attack or a 6:30 stargate pressure, etc.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Then dont rely on timings. People won't play the game to your standards and timings in cases like these, get used to it
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Hi
I was Master Protoss in WoL, in HotS I decided to reach masters with every race starting with Zerg. (ATM im Plat, still need a method to keep the inject smooth and need to have a set up plan to have my macro rolling)
As I understand, ZvZ in HotS is basically Muta vs Muta wars. I don't have many problems reaching the Muta phase, I just lost why the Mutas are the best current midgame. Almost every time I go Mutas I get shot down by Hydras, Queens and Spores, and usually when the opponent moves out they have enough Spores so I can't base race them. What am I missing to fight this? And why in pro level play we don't see those kind of attempts to fight Mutas?
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On April 14 2013 18:47 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Hi
I was Master Protoss in WoL, in HotS I decided to reach masters with every race starting with Zerg. (ATM im Plat, still need a method to keep the inject smooth and need to have a set up plan to have my macro rolling)
As I understand, ZvZ in HotS is basically Muta vs Muta wars. I don't have many problems reaching the Muta phase, I just lost why the Mutas are the best current midgame. Almost every time I go Mutas I get shot down by Hydras, Queens and Spores, and usually when the opponent moves out they have enough Spores so I can't base race them. What am I missing to fight this? And why in pro level play we don't see those kind of attempts to fight Mutas?
On the simplest level you're not missing anything about mutas. However what you haven't seen yet is the effectiveness of banelings/zergling against hydralisks. This can buy the muta player a large amount of time with map control. When you aren't facing another player who is also making mutalisks making a bunch of them isn't very effective.
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Heya peeps. My ZvP is pretty weak at the moment because I don't really feel that I understand the matchup very well. This game the P went very early third that he cannoned up like crazy and went into total airtoss. I'd love some critique on what my biggest leaks are and what I could have done better. Thanks in advance!
http://drop.sc/323604
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I have trouble dealing with early banshees.
My main problem is determining if he's going for several banshees or only 1-2.
I sometimes assume it's only the standard 1-2 and lose to like 8 banshees because I don't have enough AA.
When this happens, even if I have planted 2 spores at each base, he just comes from one side and kills 1 spore and then gets in range to kill the hatch. If I try to move the other spore it wont root in time.
Even when I scout startport with tech lab, you never now with terran because he can just switch it with factory.
One a side note, what's the best build (passive or agressive) do deal with the multitude of threads T has in the early game?
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On April 14 2013 20:32 Azoryen wrote:
I have trouble dealing with early banshees.
My main problem is determining if he's going for several banshees or only 1-2.
I sometimes assume it's only the standard 1-2 and lose to like 8 banshees because I don't have enough AA.
When this happens, even if I have planted 2 spores at each base, he just comes from one side and kills 1 spore and then gets in range to kill the hatch. If I try to move the other spore it wont root in time.
Even when I scout startport with tech lab, you never now with terran because he can just switch it with factory.
One a side note, what's the best build (passive or agressive) do deal with the multitude of threads T has in the early game?
Just scout later after you saw the first 1-2 banshees to check what is his follow up.
If you see more banshees or if the starport still have a lab on it, you can assume it will be several banshees and not only 1-2.
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How do you beat a turtling terran who gets turrets, planetaries, mech, and widow mines, then goes into mass air? What composition do you go for?
Broodlords seem like the overall best idea, but it seems like the terran is capable of just mass-producing vikings and destroying whatever broodlord force I get + teching directly for broodlords opens me up to all sorts of midgame pushes that I cant defend.
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EPT
