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On March 25 2013 06:21 Existor wrote:
Is there any videos, builds, tips on how to play mutaless ZvZ? Maybe low amount of banelings with hydralisks, or Hydra-festors, or Roach-corruptor, or ling-bane-corruptor with heavy defence?
Right now there are some upgraded ling builds ( where you get +1 carapace with or without +1 melee) before lair and then take a bit earlier third while spamming lings at your opponent and taking advantage of the window you have before mutas are on the field.
Only really viable follow ups imo are infestors or lots of queens, assuming you are did decent dmg with the upgraded ling timing.
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Russian Federation50 Posts
Should a hive be taken early in ZvT against heavy bio tank play? I am currently struggling executing ling, bane, muta play and bio tank play tears me in half. I do stay on this tech for way too long but should an early hive be made to get vipers out or is there another solution? I feel vipers are too intensive with how fragile they are and making sure the blinding clouds land without losing a base or an army in the process.
Infestors are still good vs bio tank. If he sieged, abuse friendly fire with infested marines; if he's not, try to land fungals, or just keep defending. Since you already have infestation pit, hive isn't a huge investment.
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Is it possible to fight MMM + hellbat with muta ling bling effectively, or do you have to throw roaches in the mix?
If terrans adds sieges, is it still possible to be effective with muta ling bling?
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On March 25 2013 17:40 gronnelg wrote:
Is it possible to fight MMM + hellbat with muta ling bling effectively, or do you have to throw roaches in the mix?
If terrans adds sieges, is it still possible to be effective with muta ling bling?
Muta/ling/bane actually beats MMM + hellbat very effectively.
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Can you switch between muta/ling/bane and go to swarmhosts if your terran opponent is going mech? Viable?
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On March 25 2013 17:44 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 17:40 gronnelg wrote:
Is it possible to fight MMM + hellbat with muta ling bling effectively, or do you have to throw roaches in the mix?
If terrans adds sieges, is it still possible to be effective with muta ling bling? Muta/ling/bane actually beats MMM + hellbat very effectively.
Can banes be allowed to target hellbats, or do you advice against it? When there's marauders in the mix I tend to target marines with banes. Should the same apply to hellbats?
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On March 25 2013 09:06 Aelendis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 08:38 Henk wrote:On March 25 2013 07:59 d07.RiV wrote:zvt: first 450 gas on speed, 1/1, then lair. I take 2 gas at 5:20, then 2 more when lair starts, 2 more when lair finishes. Perhaps you could take your 5th/6th a little earlier, if you wanted.
zvp: 2 gas at 6:00 and one more at 6:30. First gas either on Lair or ling speed, whatever you prefer. Next 100 gas goes to the one you didn't choose. That still doesn't give the exact timing because often after ling speed you would pull off 1-2 drones off gas. Earlier roaches are also an option in ZvP. Don't see why you would pull drones off gas, and yeah there are builds that deviate from the timings I said, but I think it's a pretty general way of approaching a macro game. Well, you pull drones off of gas because after researching lingspeed you want to develop your eco. If you did not, you would have too few drones to support both minerals and gas mining in an optimal way (if you go for a standard macro game, obviously).
He said he opens gassless, then takes 2 gas at 5:20. So there is no reason to pull off gas when using this build.
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What would be the correct reponse to a P pylon blocking your nat? I am kind of afraid to take my third, because in HoTS, no FFE openings are very common. Should I just get out a Queen Overlord and Lings and wait for my natural to be cleared or my Ovie to scout a FFE?
Or should I do something else?
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On March 25 2013 21:28 Ketch wrote:
What would be the correct reponse to a P pylon blocking your nat? I am kind of afraid to take my third, because in HoTS, no FFE openings are very common. Should I just get out a Queen Overlord and Lings and wait for my natural to be cleared or my Ovie to scout a FFE?
Or should I do something else?
You place your nat hatch in your main, go for quick 2 lings and take that pylon down, stop drones at 32. And roach push him from 32 to 52 supply. Drone up after you get your roaches up and keep being super aggresive, you'r nat is up arorund the same time you reach your opponents base with said roaches. Squeez in another overlord. Get yer third queen and go for third as soon Lair finishes. (quite delayed, maybe around 6:50 mark) you now have 3 queens and a forth hatch on the way. Be aware of 3/4gate that hits around 7:00-8:00.
Yer 2 lings can easily clear and explore hidden pylons, I've lost a couple of games due to Zealot warp while my slow roaches are at the enemy.
Defend with 3 queens from Ora/Phen, keep overlords to a minimum on the map until speedovies. AND dont drone to hard until you get clear view of what the toss is doing, if the Protoss is not going for full saturated nat, you should delay third and squeeze out ling roach. And delay his push, then take him out outside your nat/third with queen support cuz you won't have anything to get that MSC elsewise, so get him on your creep and make him waste Force fields before he reaches close enough to do dmg.
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Does anyone have a guide/BO on how to use burrow+roach at hatch tech vs terran? Thanks!
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Does anyone know of a standard zerg opener i could use against all match ups? how about 14 pool 15 hatch? :D
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8 Pool is pretty much viable against anything on 2 player maps :D
On March 26 2013 01:59 obis wrote:
Does anyone know of a standard zerg opener i could use against all match ups? how about 14 pool 15 hatch? :D
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Can someone tell me what is the best way to punish a meching terran who goes MASSIVELY into widow mines? I mean literally 3 fac with reactor mines. I am clueless to how to deal with it in an efficien way!
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On March 25 2013 18:30 Stardroid wrote:
Can you switch between muta/ling/bane and go to swarmhosts if your terran opponent is going mech? Viable?
You generally do not want to open with ling/bane/muta if the terran is meching in the first place  Roach/host can break most meching terrans in the mid game however. GL
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I just get into Plat league.
Can u guys tell me the standard build against every race?
Just standard, and what do i should see in this new league.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On March 26 2013 12:28 MurdockA wrote:
I just get into Plat league.
Can u guys tell me the standard build against every race?
Just standard, and what do i should see in this new league.
This is a really vague question, do a bit of research around the forums and you can find something that suits you
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How do you go about scouting early game vs protoss and terran in hots? I'm starting to play vs some pretty OK players and just winging it no longer works. I'm getting dumb losses because I don't scout stargates and 5 phoenix come out and get 4 or 5 swarmhost kills and snipe a queen when I should have gone hydra first, etc.
What I'm looking for is...
1) Where to place your initial overlords
2) What you're looking for in the protoss/terran base as giveaways
3) A general idea of what's possible based on what you will (probably) see
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From trying the STLife style of ZvT I've discovered something shocking:
I am not, in fact, STLife. Shocking, I know.
Ling/bane/muta, in my hands, is probably the most useless comp I can put together. It basically instantly loses me any game I go that comp.
Not that I even often get that far in the game. Terrans seem to have, more than ever, about a dozen different ways to kill dozens of my drones before the game's even passes the 6:00 mark. Early mine/marine pushes, 1/1/1 mine drops, 1/1/1 marine drops, 1/1/1 hellion drops, hellion run-bys, reapers, banshees, cloaked banshees, 2 port banshees, 2rax agression, 1rax bunker agression, 2-3 rax all-in, etc etc...It seems like every game sometime between 5-7 minutes, I lose between 15-30 drones and/or my 3rd...usually both.
I've tried roaches, ling/bane, roach/bane, ling/bane/muta, ling/muta, ling/infestor, mass queens, mass spines, sim city + spines, etc etc.
I've spread my OLs and watched the minimap, only to realize I'm not actually fast enough, even with ling speed, to defend drops if my army isn't actually IN my base, thanks to methvacs.
More than ever, in addition, terrans feel nearly unassaultable. Every ling/bane all-in or roach all-in gets stopped by a bunker/supply depot wall + mines/bunkers and/or tanks..., if I try muta harass there's always turrets and mines with marine and/or thor support to make it completely useless. I can't get reasonable scouting info since the front is now impervious and OL scouting vs terran is shaky at best...
I go into every ZvT both terrified of what's going to happen at the 5-7 minute mark, because I can never quite seem to see it coming in time, and even when I do, I can never seem to stop it before it cripples me, and utterly impotent feeling as I have no idea how to even pressure, much less actually assault a terran opponent.
ZvT for me right now is basically just a free loss before I get to win another ZvZ or ZvP, both of which I have over 65% win rates in. (73% in ZvP, 66% in ZvZ right now). For contrast, my ZvT is a 23% winrate.
I'm 22-8 vs P, 16-8 vs Z, and 7-23 vs T, and I haven't any clue how to fix it. I've read every guide I can get my hands on about ZvT, I've watched streams, I've watched replays, and I've tried just about everything I've seen work, and either Terran refuses to do what the terran in the guide/stream/replay did and negates the strategy, or it's just not possible for me to accomplish with my APM (STLife style).
Please, someone help me. 
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Russian Federation81 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:01 Arisen wrote:
How do you go about scouting early game vs protoss and terran in hots? I'm starting to play vs some pretty OK players and just winging it no longer works. I'm getting dumb losses because I don't scout stargates and 5 phoenix come out and get 4 or 5 swarmhost kills and snipe a queen when I should have gone hydra first, etc.
What I'm looking for is...
1) Where to place your initial overlords
2) What you're looking for in the protoss/terran base as giveaways
3) A general idea of what's possible based on what you will (probably) see
Always send your initial overlord to your opponent's natural to see if he's expanding or not. When playing versus terran be a little more careful about it, send it to the side so it doesn't fly straight into a couple of marines. Protoss and zerg won't have anti air out that fast. After you've checked for expo, send it to the side of the natural that has vespen geysers because gas timings are the best clue you can get about what tech your opponent is going without seeing the actual buildings. I am kinda ashamed to admit this but I don't know any terran gas timings, but for protoss it's: 1) no gas at natural at 6:30 - some quick gate pressure, personally I never see this; 2) 1 gas - blink/7 gate/DT all in or fast 3rd; 3) 2 gas - tech build, either immortal all in or SG opening. ZvZ is muta vs muta now, everyone gets early gasses. Basically in ZvZ all you need your initial overlord to scout is the amount of drones at natural to see the ling all in incoming.
You will also want to send 2nd or 3rd overlord to the side of the main of your opponent to sac it whenever you need to know what he's doing. Don't be afraid to lose the OV, the information it will get you is far more important than 100 minerals. You'll have to find the timing of sacing that works best for your league, generally you'll want to do it earlier in ZvT than in ZvP. You definitely want to do it as soon as your overlord reaches your opponent's base if there is still no expansion by that time.
For example, for the SG opening you say you're struggling against, you will most likely scout 1) 2 gasses at natural before 7 minutes; 2) with the overlord you send into his base you might not scout the SGs directly but what you will scout is the lack of 4+ gateways, which most of the time means a SG opening.
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On March 26 2013 14:45 Reithan wrote:
From trying the STLife style of ZvT I've discovered something shocking:
I am not, in fact, STLife. Shocking, I know.
Ling/bane/muta, in my hands, is probably the most useless comp I can put together. It basically instantly loses me any game I go that comp.
Not that I even often get that far in the game. Terrans seem to have, more than ever, about a dozen different ways to kill dozens of my drones before the game's even passes the 6:00 mark. Early mine/marine pushes, 1/1/1 mine drops, 1/1/1 marine drops, 1/1/1 hellion drops, hellion run-bys, reapers, banshees, cloaked banshees, 2 port banshees, 2rax agression, 1rax bunker agression, 2-3 rax all-in, etc etc...It seems like every game sometime between 5-7 minutes, I lose between 15-30 drones and/or my 3rd...usually both.
(...)
What about static defense like spores and spines?
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EPT
