EPTWhy should they do this? Should'nt i prefer double uprades anymore?
I recognize that single armory is only used when they opened with fast hellbats...
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 42
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
Why should they do this? Should'nt i prefer double uprades anymore? I recognize that single armory is only used when they opened with fast hellbats... | ||
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ETisME
12893 Posts
General: I open 12 rax 12 gas into expo, into 3 rax 2 reactor 1 tech lab for combat shield marine with eb +1. Then for medivac stim marine marauder pure bio style. I don't scv scout since I am already sacrificing minerals for the 12 gas. TvZ: I almost always open with 3 reapers which do very well against Zerg that don't go for gas first. Helps with sniping queen and tumors and a lot more map control. But how do I deal with earlier gas speedling opening? What should I do with my reapers? I normally just try to do some cliff micro and eventually sac to have his main scouted. I feel like a fast 3 reapers is not very cost efficient if Zerg gets a gas around 17 gas or so. TvP: How many reapers should I go for? I almost can't defend any form of early pressure if I opened anything reaper related except for one reaper. 3 reapers does an ok job for containing the opponent and not letting him go out from his base until he has more units out. But a straight 3 gate msc pressure becomes a lot harder to defend. With a fast msc opening, the reaper don't do anything at all since he is almost free to move out whenever he wants | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On April 08 2013 09:41 ETisME wrote: TvZ: I almost always open with 3 reapers which do very well against Zerg that don't go for gas first. Helps with sniping queen and tumors and a lot more map control. But how do I deal with earlier gas speedling opening? What should I do with my reapers? I normally just try to do some cliff micro and eventually sac to have his main scouted. I feel like a fast 3 reapers is not very cost efficient if Zerg gets a gas around 17 gas or so. In TvZ you should go for reactor hellions along with your reapers as it deals with the fast speedlings very well and hold the zerg on 2 bases. Also transitions flawlessly into widow mines which seems to be the norm for TvZ On April 08 2013 09:06 saaaa wrote: Lately i saw some pro's went single armory when they play mech in TvZ and TvT as well. Why should they do this? Should'nt i prefer double uprades anymore? I recognize that single armory is only used when they opened with fast hellbats... If their is only 1 fast armory and you see fast hellbats the armory was probably for the hellbats. Can anyone help me in TvP. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong but every time I win or get close to winning a fight he just warps in 10 zealots and kills the rest of my army. I try and snipe bases and get good emp's and snipes off but it never seems to matter. Replay: http://drop.sc/319306 | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
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Howl41
United States65 Posts
 , but Ive been having a lot of issues with early pressure from toss (either MSC and gateway units or Oracle). Whats the best way to open in TvP where I can still have good econ without getting totally pwned by early pressure? I just cant seem to hold it off if I open 1 rax gasless FE. | ||
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
On April 08 2013 14:03 Serenity12 wrote: I just got promoted to platinum , but Ive been having a lot of issues with early pressure from toss (either MSC and gateway units or Oracle). Whats the best way to open in TvP where I can still have good econ without getting totally pwned by early pressure? I just cant seem to hold it off if I open 1 rax gasless FE.1 rax gas expand, make a reaper, scout, and then you can easily make the appropriate number of marines, marauders, turrets, and bunkers necessary to survive. Well ok, not 'easily', because Protoss all ins are really strong even if you know they're coming. But still. | ||
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Frosthaze
94 Posts
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
On April 08 2013 17:57 Frosthaze wrote: I saw this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSQJGpalufo) video not long ago where apollo describes how to correctly reinforce your zerg army. He just shift+add the eggs to the desired armygroup. I'm not aware of any easy way to achieve the same thing for terrans, or is there? Do I have to keep this on track myself basically? As a terran, you have to rely on your rally and then add it to control group, so no. Only thing that is remotely the same is the new "select army" button. I really suggest you don't get in the habit of using it, since it will mess up your watchtowers, drops etc. Just learn to really, select new units and then maybe shift-add to control group. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12065 Posts
On April 08 2013 09:06 saaaa wrote: Lately i saw some pro's went single armory when they play mech in TvZ and TvT as well. Why should they do this? Should'nt i prefer double uprades anymore? I recognize that single armory is only used when they opened with fast hellbats... In TvZ it's because it's rather rare to get a super fast attack upgrade with mech and it allows you to get more factories as you save on your gas from the other armory/upgrade. | ||
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BaaL`
297 Posts
On April 08 2013 09:06 saaaa wrote: Lately i saw some pro's went single armory when they play mech in TvZ and TvT as well. Why should they do this? Should'nt i prefer double uprades anymore? I recognize that single armory is only used when they opened with fast hellbats... Unlike bio, double upgrades are not that common for mech. Not only do you need more gas for your factories and army, but in TvZ the attack upgrade is not all that useful, while in TvT the armor upgrade is not as good. This is because the damage doesn't matter that much against Zerg units that will die quickly anyway, and vs Terran is should mostly be tanks/marauders hitting your mech, and they deal so much damage that taking 1 off every shot is not that good. | ||
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arkedos
Germany1426 Posts
I am a diamond Terran in the need of help. After over 3700 games of SC2 I've finally made it back to the diamond league (yeayyy), after being demoted to platinum about 1 1/2 years ago. Now that I am back in diamond I am struggling a lot against zergs and protoss. My first goal is of course to stay in diamond. Well I'll give ya a typical example for both match ups. http://drop.sc/319421 (TvZ) http://drop.sc/319420 (TvP) As you can see I have a hard time dealing with muta harrasment against zerg and with the colossus tech against protoss. I am already starting to think, that its unwinnable. I am looking for tips what I could have done better. And any tips how to micro against banelings? I am totally lost against banelings. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On April 08 2013 12:06 AKomrade wrote: Is TvT just marine/medivac in the midgame now? I haven't faced a single Diamond+ terran who has built a tank (to attack) before 13:00. I find it wierd too because siege is free, i assumed there would be alot more early timing pushes with tanks mixed in. But im guessing double upgrades+mines are more effective then tanks nowadays. Someone said that a tank normally gets 1 or 2 maybe 3 shots of in a fight, if thats true, the gascost would favor mines. | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On April 08 2013 21:04 govie wrote: I find it wierd too because siege is free, i assumed there would be alot more early timing pushes with tanks mixed in. But im guessing double upgrades+mines are more effective then tanks nowadays. Someone said that a tank normally gets 1 or 2 maybe 3 shots of in a fight, if thats true, the gascost would favor mines. Add to that the fact that mech play has Hellbats now (YAY), and you're looking at increased utility but decreased relevance for the tank in Terran matchups. Don't get me wrong, you want to defend something, the Tank is kick-ass, but on aggro, Mines move and set-up faster, and Hellbats do incredible area damage while still being able to move AND be healed. | ||
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BaaL`
297 Posts
On April 08 2013 09:41 ETisME wrote: I have been using reaper opening in all match ups and want to have some opinion from better players. I am currently plat but soon to be diamond as terran. General: I open 12 rax 12 gas into expo, into 3 rax 2 reactor 1 tech lab for combat shield marine with eb +1. Then for medivac stim marine marauder pure bio style. I don't scv scout since I am already sacrificing minerals for the 12 gas. TvZ: I almost always open with 3 reapers which do very well against Zerg that don't go for gas first. Helps with sniping queen and tumors and a lot more map control. But how do I deal with earlier gas speedling opening? What should I do with my reapers? I normally just try to do some cliff micro and eventually sac to have his main scouted. I feel like a fast 3 reapers is not very cost efficient if Zerg gets a gas around 17 gas or so. TvP: How many reapers should I go for? I almost can't defend any form of early pressure if I opened anything reaper related except for one reaper. 3 reapers does an ok job for containing the opponent and not letting him go out from his base until he has more units out. But a straight 3 gate msc pressure becomes a lot harder to defend. With a fast msc opening, the reaper don't do anything at all since he is almost free to move out whenever he wants I don't think you should go for more than 1 reaper in both cases. TvZ it's possible to get 3, but the 2nd and 3rd don't add any scouting. As you said, as soon as speed is out, they become almost useless. I think any good Zerg is getting speed around 17, especially after he sees a reaper. TvP, more than 1 reaper has no point at all. You will die to blink rush, you will die to oracle play, you will die to DTs, you will die to 4gate... the list goes on. The stalker will be out before your second reaper gets to his base anyway, so it will accomplish absolutely nothing. You are much better off getting more bio, a faster tech lab, faster factory, basically anything but more reapers after 1. The only reason you might have had some success with multiple reapers in TvP is your opponents must have been terrible  | ||
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BaaL`
297 Posts
On April 08 2013 21:04 govie wrote: I find it wierd too because siege is free, i assumed there would be alot more early timing pushes with tanks mixed in. But im guessing double upgrades+mines are more effective then tanks nowadays. Someone said that a tank normally gets 1 or 2 maybe 3 shots of in a fight, if thats true, the gascost would favor mines. As far as I know tanks are still a staple of TvT, the only other option being heavy bio. Tanks get way more shots unless all your stuff dies, which should not really happen in TvT unless you lost already. I think the person you are quoting was talking about TvZ, where it is quite common for big trades to occur, and tanks have a much shorter life expectancy. Tank pushes are just too slow to be effective, your opponent can drop your base and get back to his before you even get there almost. Mines stop any tank/marine aggression pretty well, as you can't get detection beside scans. I think there is one build that still uses a tank or 2 in combination with a raven, but I don't think its that good. | ||
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Strater
12 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
Thanks. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
If they used their 2 gas and proxy pylon (the only information I can reliably scout) to go for a stalker or sentry heavy 3 gate, I get do defend it with 4 marines in a bunker, maybe a mine if they are bad. This is an auto loss either way. What did I miss? | ||
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BaaL`
297 Posts
On April 08 2013 23:18 Tenks wrote: Assuming I do a standard reaper FE in TvP and the Protoss does something like Stargate into Templar what is my correct job of my first 4 medivacs if the Protoss is on 2 bases. Should my only goal be to soft contain him while delaying his third and rushing my third out? Do I need to be aggressive with the drops and try and force them or should I just concede that the drops will be dealt with so I should just drop and try to kill a pylon here and there? Thanks. Depends what happened with the stargate. If he went for phoenix, you really should not try to drop. Definitely take a quick 3rd in that case, and try to stop his. If it was a failed oracle, go ahead and attack while taking a 3rd, just make sure you retreat quickly rather than losing units and you should be able to keep him on 2 bases for a long time. In this case, there is no way for storm to be ready when your attack is hitting (around 10-10:30). If it was an oracle or VR that did a lot of damage, you probably don't have the units to fight right now and should just defend while taking a 3rd at the right time. On April 09 2013 00:00 U_G_L_Y wrote: Using the 15 gas reactor expand, the soonest you can have a mine done (with no scouting or probe harass) is about 6:10 if you cut marine production. Proxy oracle is in my mineral line at 5:40. DWF says the best way to deal with oracles is mines. If they used their 2 gas and proxy pylon (the only information I can reliably scout) to go for a stalker or sentry heavy 3 gate, I get do defend it with 4 marines in a bunker, maybe a mine if they are bad. This is an auto loss either way. What did I miss? Isn't it possible to scout the proxy in any case when you got a reaper? You should see a pylon missing, and from there the proxy spots that are close enough to your base should be scouted in time. At least that way you know if its a stargate or a robotics or just a gateway all-in. If its a stargate, don't cut marines, and I think you should have 6 by the time it arrives? I'm not sure about this, because I don't play reaper in TvP. In any case I don't think it can do that much damage before being defended by marines. After that you get a turret ASAP, if he went for multiple oracle you just kill him and if it was only 1 you shouldn't take enough damage to be behind (since you got an expand way sooner than P). | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
The advantages seem to be: 1) Quicker changes in army movement. 2) Less likely to leave pieces of your army behind. The disadvantages seem to be: 1) An extra CG to maintain. 2) One less CG to work with. With multi-harass, ghost, stim, raven, siege it seems hots terran really needs all the CGs it can get. 3) If using the all-army group to cast spells, you have to use next-subgroup which varies depending on unit comp and is slower than selecting a dedicated CG for the spell (e.g. stim, siege, EMP). | ||
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