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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On April 07 2013 05:51 Magpie842 wrote:
Ok, another very blunt question: When is it right to go mech?
Usually, it's a matter of preference as you may prefer this style, or on the contrary dislike it. Now for the actual strength—mech is valid in TvT, though it's harder to play (especially on the current map pool) and its efficiency depends on the map. In TvZ, it's inferior to 4M and harder to play (assuming competent opponents who don't lose dozens of Drones to harass). In TvP, it's considerably inferior to bio, and probably not viable against Protoss who know how to fully exploit the various tools and large advantages at their disposal.
On April 07 2013 08:16 peter22 wrote:
can you guys recommend me a good safe cheeseproof 2v2 build?
Many of the gas builds in the OP can work depending on the match-ups.
On April 07 2013 12:08 Smackzilla wrote:
When doing a 15 gas reactor FE in TvT, where's best place for the reactor as you add your fact and starport and how/when do you get stim?
Currently I'm keeping the reactor on the rax until the port nears completion, and then getting tech lab and stim immediately with that rax. With the fact I'm immediately going for a tank and not doing any swapping.
This is all to go into bio tank play.
Depends on your transition. The Barracks can stay on the Reactor for an offensive or defensive Marines/Tanks phase, then you get +2 rax with labs to search bio tech.
On April 07 2013 19:08 Garmer wrote:
i was believing that without siege upgrade, it was becoming more relevant
Nope. You should always skip early Tanks unless you have no other choice to survive (or you want to use them agressively in TvT). It's much better to start with Hellions (vs T/Z) or Mines (vs P), especially if you intend to mech afterwards. Cheaper, more flexible and provides map control and/or dynamic harass options.
On April 07 2013 21:11 Sprite825 wrote:
hey guys, I'm a diamond terran struggling to find a nice bo per match up with wich I can practice hard on ladder. I would like to have one build by mu mainly evolving in safe macro bio play(mixed with mines/tank/ghost, vicking depending of the mu). I looked at the bo at the beginning of the first post, but I feel like they are all very greedy, or too agressive..
What are you talking about? None of the recommended build orders in the OP are "very greedy"...
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What is the replay from the 3rd bo in tvt ? : " Some kind of Reaper expand into 3 rax Medivacs with EB before Factory (bio/biomech).
Same as above." I looked above but there is no such thing
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On April 07 2013 21:11 Sprite825 wrote:
hey guys, I'm a diamond terran struggling to find a nice bo per match up with wich I can practice hard on ladder. I would like to have one build by mu mainly evolving in safe macro bio play(mixed with mines/tank/ghost, vicking depending of the mu). I looked at the bo at the beginning of the first post, but I feel like they are all very greedy, or too agressive...
(I wanted to look at polt's play because I really like it,but there is no vod on his twitch...)
http://sc2casts.com/?q=polt Here is a list of polt games. The builds listed in the op really arent super greedy. If you last played in Wings builds have become more macro focused, because maps are larger, certain things were nerfed (warpgate stim bunkers barracks etc) and races are stronger defensively early (mothership core, mines, spores not requiring an evo chamber) with better scouting (hallucination no longer needs an upgrade, mothership core, reaper, faster overlords)
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Yes ok I understand that way. Thank you btw !
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United States341 Posts
Is it worth it to just throw down a turret per mineral line if you scout double gas vs Protoss? It could either be DT or Oracle, so I'm not so sure if blindly turreting up is a good idea because it can put you behind in the early game.
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On April 08 2013 02:28 awakenx wrote:
Is it worth it to just throw down a turret per mineral line if you scout double gas vs Protoss? It could either be DT or Oracle, so I'm not so sure if blindly turreting up is a good idea because it can put you behind in the early game.
First step is to count the pylons, make sure he has 3 in base, then get the fuck out of dodge and rescout to see if he has a nexus building. Most times you can sneak back in, sometimes you can't. If they don't poke, or prod, with stalker, stalkerzeal, stalker/z/msc etc any combo... I'd be suspicious.
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i dont understand this game, a toss just comes in my base, makes a pylon, i try and kill it with 4 scvs and i fail at killing it on time, he gets a gateway and puts down more pylons... chronos a zealot and just kills me what am i supposed to do seriously... i couldn't attack with more than 4 workers because of the angle he put it on.
im seriously about to rage quit because of protoss cheese.
i attacked it as fast as possible...
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On April 08 2013 02:42 mokumoku wrote:
i dont understand this game, a toss just comes in my base, makes a pylon, i try and kill it with 4 scvs and i fail at killing it on time, he gets a gateway and puts down more pylons... chronos a zealot and just kills me what am i supposed to do seriously... i couldn't attack with more than 4 workers because of the angle he put it on.
im seriously about to rage quit because of protoss cheese.
i attacked it as fast as possible...
Post a replay. Go for the gateway, not the pylon. Pylon has alot of HP, and is cheap. 6 SCVs can bring down a gateway if you get it early enough before a chrono zealot can get out. Put 1 scv to follow the probe. Put a bunker in your mineral line, or side of it, and defend your minerals.
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On April 08 2013 02:42 mokumoku wrote:
i dont understand this game, a toss just comes in my base, makes a pylon, i try and kill it with 4 scvs and i fail at killing it on time, he gets a gateway and puts down more pylons... chronos a zealot and just kills me what am i supposed to do seriously... i couldn't attack with more than 4 workers because of the angle he put it on.
im seriously about to rage quit because of protoss cheese.
i attacked it as fast as possible...
It's kind of hard to understand exactly what went on, but the correct way to handle this kind of cheese is get a bunker in your mineral line with a marine, and then get up a marine count large enough to kill his pylon/gates.
If you opened gas you can get a reaper which makes it gg since you can kite zealots all day long.
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On April 08 2013 02:42 mokumoku wrote:
i dont understand this game, a toss just comes in my base, makes a pylon, i try and kill it with 4 scvs and i fail at killing it on time, he gets a gateway and puts down more pylons... chronos a zealot and just kills me what am i supposed to do seriously... i couldn't attack with more than 4 workers because of the angle he put it on.
im seriously about to rage quit because of protoss cheese.
i attacked it as fast as possible...
There are a bunch of training scenarios in game for the Spectre portrait. One of them deals exactly with this. Basically, you immediately drop your rax next to your CC and ASAP bunker up your mineral line. From here, add rax on, push back once you have a good number of marines, kill all of his gates and 1A his base.
The scenario is called "Rush Defense", under Campaign and the Expert category.
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So someone got an answer to this DT Tails build? Even if I scout it is a pain in the ass.
Protoss gets his base up super early. He forces scans, he can force turrets, he gains map control and he is save against anything (except 1 base wonky builds)
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On April 08 2013 04:36 EuSpex wrote:
So someone got an answer to this DT Tails build? Even if I scout it is a pain in the ass.
Protoss gets his base up super early. He forces scans, he can force turrets, he gains map control and he is save against anything (except 1 base wonky builds)
Yeah help!, hardcounter anyone?
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On April 08 2013 05:39 Luddff wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:36 EuSpex wrote:
So someone got an answer to this DT Tails build? Even if I scout it is a pain in the ass.
Protoss gets his base up super early. He forces scans, he can force turrets, he gains map control and he is save against anything (except 1 base wonky builds)
Yeah help!, hardcounter anyone?
I'm anxious to figure this out also. I'm wondering if you can't identify the build early on and go on the offensive with your reactor rax marines and 1st widow mine. Seems like at the very least you should be able to punish it/slow it down while preparing for it back at home.
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On April 08 2013 06:15 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 05:39 Luddff wrote:On April 08 2013 04:36 EuSpex wrote:
So someone got an answer to this DT Tails build? Even if I scout it is a pain in the ass.
Protoss gets his base up super early. He forces scans, he can force turrets, he gains map control and he is save against anything (except 1 base wonky builds)
Yeah help!, hardcounter anyone? I'm anxious to figure this out also. I'm wondering if you can't identify the build early on and go on the offensive with your reactor rax marines and 1st widow mine. Seems like at the very least you should be able to punish it/slow it down while preparing for it back at home.
Considering the only unit until the stalker pops is the MSC... just rescout and run into the main and see robo and twilight, and know it's going to be a DT warp build?
I haven't faced it yet, but it seems just to be a meta game abuser... SCV should not leave until the MSC pops because there will be no zealot, and you can keep checking his gas saturation, and see no stalker qued, and only MSC...with no zealot actually coming out.
Stalker comes out after robo, after twilight, after nexus... You should assume with 2 gas, and no stalker, and only a MSC being made that something is up.
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On April 07 2013 10:31 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 07:56 Thor.Rush wrote:
Im a high master terran, kinda new to HotS. Im having trouble dealing with Oracles in TvP when I 1 rax FE. Whats the best way to deal with them? Ive figured that I need 2 turrets to covers the mineral line and gases and possibly 1 turret to cover the raxes. Then I need a bunker at the ramp because the Stalkers come and own the marines with the Oracles. My 2nd CC is in my main ofc.
I can survive playing like that, but the problem is that this is too much resources spent so early on defense, so I get way behind; or so it seems.
Is there a better way to deal with Oracles + Stalkers more effectively? Thx.
Edit: So its 125 for ebay + 200-300 for turrets + 100 for bunker = 425-525 minerals, which is an insane amount for that early in the game imo. Open a delayed gas and get a widow mine or two. They zone out minerals really effectively, by one shotting oracles. It's what I had to start doing, and see many terrans do. Not many I've watched are going gasless FE in TvP, I don't think.
Thx, this makes more sense
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Based on my own experience and from watching Polt execute it, is there even a Terran mid to late game anymore? He was cheesing around the other day and all he did for game after game after game was go mass Reapers off one base, then eventually off two and slowly teching up to Factory and Starport. I just tried it in a TvT and by the time I had 4 reapers, my opponent had his 1 Rax FE done, doing the 1/1/1 and getting widow mines. Good thing I did a bad split because only 1 Reaper died. Pretty much cheesed my way to a win. How do you even defend this if I ever encounter it on ladder?
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Polt was first playing against lowbies when he changed to NA. Then in the tournament he was going 2 rax reapers + expand vs terrans. That's not "mass" reaper. It seems really strong though, and honestly I can't think of a stronger opening. Would also like to know the answer to your question.
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On April 08 2013 07:22 geokilla wrote:
Based on my own experience and from watching Polt execute it, is there even a Terran mid to late game anymore? He was cheesing around the other day and all he did for game after game after game was go mass Reapers off one base, then eventually off two and slowly teching up to Factory and Starport. I just tried it in a TvT and by the time I had 4 reapers, my opponent had his 1 Rax FE done, doing the 1/1/1 and getting widow mines. Good thing I did a bad split because only 1 Reaper died. Pretty much cheesed my way to a win. How do you even defend this if I ever encounter it on ladder?
The same way u would defend against a 888?
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Had some trouble with Zergs tonight whilst trying build that DeMusliM uses (similar to Flash one in the OP). See spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +This game I just couldn't get my third up, I was really slow with my bio upgrades but regardless I just felt SWAMPED by the amount of ling/bling/muta he had. He suggested to add some extra siege tanks at my third, perhaps I could have walled in with barracks or PF's at the bottom choke? http://drop.sc/319246In this game I scouted the roach tech really late and because I was fucking around with my hellions/reaper my barracks were really slow in getting up - I only just held his 2base aggression and I feel if he had better macro and got some bloody upgrades he would've beat me. Did I do the right thing in turtling up on my 2bases as I knew he didn't have a third up. http://drop.sc/319245I am not used to this hellion style openers that were common in WoL as I used marine style drop play and then 11/11 once infestors got really popular, I find my macro really slipping when I am trying to scout with reaper/hellions and forget things like stim and CS because I am used to opening bio and getting them asap. Games are plat level btw
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On April 08 2013 07:29 Thor.Rush wrote:
Polt was first playing against lowbies when he changed to NA. Then in the tournament he was going 2 rax reapers + expand vs terrans. That's not "mass" reaper. It seems really strong though, and honestly I can't think of a stronger opening. Would also like to know the answer to your question.
No he said the build is very good against KR GMs as well. Like all builds, if it doesn't get scouted then you're fine. But for mass reapers, even if you get scouted, well how to defend? LOL. Cus my build got scouted. I mean who goes 4 rax and takes 2 gas in a TvT haha.
Also, how do I counter mass Swarm Host in TvZ? Had a 80 supply lead, but blew it. He backed up his 15 Swarm Host with mass Hydras and Overseers so my Widow Mines were effectively useless.
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EPT
