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I have a question concerning tvz, using this build:
15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine
What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead?
PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish.
On March 28 2013 19:43 Douillos wrote: Hi fellow terrans,
I have a question concerning tvz, using this build:
15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine
What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead?
PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish.
You really want 2-3 Tanks for such dedicated allin. Widow Mines are great, but you can't rely only on them. And well, like every other allin, ïf you get fast 3rd CC and NOT scout allin comming, there is really high chance you won't hold it.
On March 28 2013 19:43 Douillos wrote: Hi fellow terrans,
I have a question concerning tvz, using this build:
15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine
What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead?
PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish.
You really want 2-3 Tanks for such dedicated allin. Widow Mines are great, but you can't rely only on them. And well, like every other allin, ïf you get fast 3rd CC and NOT scout allin comming, there is really high chance you won't hold it.
Thank you for your post. So i should get a tech lab on factory and keep producing marines from reactor.
One other question.... How would you recognize this all in is coming? He didnt take drones of gas? early roach warren? low drone count? With so many people going 2 base muta and safety roach warren im not sure what to look for in this case...
On March 28 2013 19:43 Douillos wrote: Hi fellow terrans,
I have a question concerning tvz, using this build:
15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine
What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead?
PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish.
You really want 2-3 Tanks for such dedicated allin. Widow Mines are great, but you can't rely only on them. And well, like every other allin, ïf you get fast 3rd CC and NOT scout allin comming, there is really high chance you won't hold it.
Thank you for your post. So i should get a tech lab on factory and keep producing marines from reactor.
One other question.... How would you recognize this all in is coming? He didnt take drones of gas? early roach warren? low drone count? With so many people going 2 base muta and safety roach warren im not sure what to look for in this case...
You can swap your factory with rax to get 1-2 Tanks after initial 2-4 mines. Free siege is just very powerful at stopping allins, even 1 Tank can win you the game if correctly positioned. If you are going for fast 3rd CC I feel something like this is needed in order to stay alive. More so, if you are not confident in your scouting info.
To answer your question:
You will recognize roach/ling or similar allin by collecting few key informations. You named few of them. I'd prioritize them:
1) You see no 3rd. 2) You see Roaches or Roach Warren. 3) You see more then 2-3 Roaches (to me, this number is alarming, but depends...). 4) At this point, I'd scan him, see drone count, buildings, check mined gas, see units/drones popping out from larvae and confirm it's an allin.
If you don't see anything, assume it is an allin, otherwise you just flipped a coin.
The best way to defend I'd say is poking with hellions, which basically forces roaches and units generally and you can get a good grasp on what is going on. With Mines and Free siege tech you have more then enough tools to defend any kind of Zerg allin. You can also go for banshee, but Tank is better defensively I think. Banshees force Mutas, Hellions force Roaches.
Hopefully I'm correct, anyways, feel free to complement.
On March 28 2013 19:43 Douillos wrote: Hi fellow terrans,
I have a question concerning tvz, using this build:
15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine
What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead?
PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish.
You really want 2-3 Tanks for such dedicated allin. Widow Mines are great, but you can't rely only on them. And well, like every other allin, ïf you get fast 3rd CC and NOT scout allin comming, there is really high chance you won't hold it.
Thank you for your post. So i should get a tech lab on factory and keep producing marines from reactor.
One other question.... How would you recognize this all in is coming? He didnt take drones of gas? early roach warren? low drone count? With so many people going 2 base muta and safety roach warren im not sure what to look for in this case...
You can swap your factory with rax to get 1-2 Tanks after initial 2-4 mines. Free siege is just very powerful at stopping allins, even 1 Tank can win you the game if correctly positioned. If you are going for fast 3rd CC I feel something like this is needed in order to stay alive. More so, if you are not confident in your scouting info.
To answer your question:
You will recognize roach/ling or similar allin by collecting few key informations. You named few of them. I'd prioritize them:
1) You see no 3rd. 2) You see Roaches or Roach Warren. 3) You see more then 2-3 Roaches (to me, this number is alarming, but depends...). 4) At this point, I'd scan him, see drone count, buildings, check mined gas, see units/drones popping out from larvae and confirm it's an allin.
If you don't see anything, assume it is an allin, otherwise you just flipped a coin.
The best way to defend I'd say is poking with hellions, which basically forces roaches and units generally and you can get a good grasp on what is going on. With Mines and Free siege tech you have more then enough tools to defend any kind of Zerg allin. You can also go for banshee, but Tank is better defensively I think. Banshees force Mutas, Hellions force Roaches.
Hopefully I'm correct, anyways, feel free to complement.
I have a question regarding mid-lategame TvZ. When i play TvZ i usually go for 1 rax expand into heavy bio with Hellbets i really like this unit composition (: The Question is how many Barracks should have a techlab and how many should have a reactor. Im not loosing many marines to like Banelings, but the problem is when he is switching to the new Ultras they destroy my Marines. Do i need a different unit composition or can i kill ultras with more Marauders?
I have a question regarding mid-lategame TvZ. When i play TvZ i usually go for 1 rax expand into heavy bio with Hellbets i really like this unit composition (: The Question is how many Barracks should have a techlab and how many should have a reactor. Im not loosing many marines to like Banelings, but the problem is when he is switching to the new Ultras they destroy my Marines. Do i need a different unit composition or can i kill ultras with more Marauders?
You can still win with bio against Ultralisks but it requires a good spread and you should attack the Ultras with the Marauders, thus do not let the Marauders attack Zerlings or something else. Ususally you can go with 1/3 of your barracks with tech lab and the other 2/3 with reactor, this could be altered though, depending on what units you are seeing. In general this gives you a good setup for the lategame to deal with Ultras.
I have a question regarding mid-lategame TvZ. When i play TvZ i usually go for 1 rax expand into heavy bio with Hellbets i really like this unit composition (: The Question is how many Barracks should have a techlab and how many should have a reactor. Im not loosing many marines to like Banelings, but the problem is when he is switching to the new Ultras they destroy my Marines. Do i need a different unit composition or can i kill ultras with more Marauders?
You can still win with bio against Ultralisks but it requires a good spread and you should attack the Ultras with the Marauders, thus do not let the Marauders attack Zerlings or something else. Ususally you can go with 1/3 of your barracks with tech lab and the other 2/3 with reactor, this could be altered though, depending on what units you are seeing. In general this gives you a good setup for the lategame to deal with Ultras.
yea, whenever you see the ultra cavern coming, add more racks with techlab... you need a lot of marauders... and the most important, use them to FOCUS FIRE... If you focus right with stutter step, you will see that ultras are kinda weak.
If I have 8 barracks- 3 with tech lab & 5 with reactor - and I put all of them in one control group say "6"
If I want now to spam production of mard and marines, I have to remember to hit the maurader hotkey only times 1st to fill up the 3 tech lab rax and then hit the marine hotkey like 10 times to get marines from the reactor add on- half the times I end up making marines in the tech lab rax which is really annoying! Also if you have 10 rax and spam the marines, does it make 1 per rax?
Terran vs. Zerg[Masters League]: What do you guys think of adding Ravens early on in the Mid Game ?
If you go for a Hellbat/Marine/Marauder composition you are very gas heavy when you take all gases on 3 Bases even with Upgrades etc. So if you add ravens early on, right before you get the 3rd CC: a) You can use them with the Seeker Missile/PDD to defend/delay Mutalisk Harrassment b) They are very potent against Roach/Hydra with PDD and the Seeker Missile which can hit clumps of Hydras c) Against Ling/Baneling you can zone the Banelings or snipe them with Seeker Missile also the PDD shuts down the Mutalisks d) The Ravens allow you to clear the creep at no scan cost e) You can harass with Seeker Missile and Turrets f) Turrets can be helpful to create choke positions and can confuse Ultra AI and can tank Banelings g) They prepare you well for an Air Switch or just to counter Broodlords
Actually, I have a pretty easy and quick question. How do the pros pick up their units into the medivacs so easily and quickly? Especially when they get surrounded by zerglings. I always end up getting a few marines killed when picking up, but when I see the pros do it, it almost doesn’t matter if they are surrounded or not they manage to pick up every single marine lighting fast. Is it just the simple click the control group that your marines are in and click the medivacs? Or is there some special move I don’t know about.
Based on the past couple posts about transitioning to a more Sky Terran focus, when should this occur? I mean in terms of adding starports, the base number (4-5?), what to get? Silver level player here so I'm a little lost.
On March 29 2013 00:59 p1cKLes wrote: Actually, I have a pretty easy and quick question. How do the pros pick up their units into the medivacs so easily and quickly? Especially when they get surrounded by zerglings. I always end up getting a few marines killed when picking up, but when I see the pros do it, it almost doesn’t matter if they are surrounded or not they manage to pick up every single marine lighting fast. Is it just the simple click the control group that your marines are in and click the medivacs? Or is there some special move I don’t know about.
I think they use shift queue and then make sure the medivacs are over the marines so they pick up all of them, or that's just how I've been doing it
Hi ! This is my first post and i hope i dont mess it up Currently i am a plat player. I only used 1 Rax FE (with 10 min. stim MMM push) to really learn sc2 (focus on macro) and so far it wasnt bad. But now i really want to switch things up. In HoTs i saw that the Reaper Opening is very good and i want to play it too but most of the time i see player going into bio then. But i would like to have a solid mech build for example against zerg. At the moment i got this going: Against Protoss: Still 1 Rax FE -> No problems with this match up Against Terran: Still 1 Rax FE into Marine-Tank -> i heard Marine-Tank isnt that good anymore in HoTs Against Zerg: Some kind of 1 Reaper Expand into hellion harras into mech.
Zerg is really my problem match up. I feel like bio might work from time to time but most likely im going to die against banes and fungles. So i want to try mech with the 1 reaper opening. But i really dont know a good composition. My build order for zerg:
10 depot 12 rax 13 gas @50 gas reaper 16 orbital comand CC Factory 2n Gas reactor on rax switch fact and rax 6 hellions -> harras
But from then on i dont know how to get a tight follow up into mech (never really played pure mech before). How many Factorys should i add (and when?) ? When is the right time for starport -> vikings ? Playing mech, when do i really need the third ? Around the 10 minute mark or if possible earlier ?
I would be really thankfull for tips. Also: What mech BO should i play in TvT (if i wnat to go pure mech there) ? I dont think i can use the same BO for zerg against terran.
On March 29 2013 00:59 p1cKLes wrote: Actually, I have a pretty easy and quick question. How do the pros pick up their units into the medivacs so easily and quickly? Especially when they get surrounded by zerglings. I always end up getting a few marines killed when picking up, but when I see the pros do it, it almost doesn’t matter if they are surrounded or not they manage to pick up every single marine lighting fast. Is it just the simple click the control group that your marines are in and click the medivacs? Or is there some special move I don’t know about.
I think they use shift queue and then make sure the medivacs are over the marines so they pick up all of them, or that's just how I've been doing it
Great video! This explains why I see some korean terrans whose medivac flies away from the enemy base, lands, and a few minutes flies in again and flies away and unloads again. I never understood why/how they did this until now.
On March 28 2013 19:43 Douillos wrote: Hi fellow terrans,
I have a question concerning tvz, using this build:
15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine
What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead?
PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish.
This is why most pros atm go 4-6 hellions before going into mine production. You need the hellions to scout and give you map control with them you are able to poke and see what the zerg is making without wasting scans. I suggest making atleast 4 hellions before mines(this is what flash,innovation,polt all did in their mlg matches vs zerg) use your 1st pair of hellions to figure out if the zerg has taken a third by the time you get there if its not complete or near complete alarm bells should be going off in your head(you should arrive at 3rd on most maps around 7mins). 1st thing you should do is send the hellions to scout front of base to check composition then you have a few ways to decide to respond. You can cancel stim and switch the tech lab to the factory and make tanks and reactor marines , or you can lay down 2-3 bunkers and keep making hellion and pull scvs to repair. When you actually scout the front of the base with the hellions look to double check he has gone for the ling roach composition(and not mutas) if he reveals roaches or a large group of lings or less then 4 queens keep preparing for the all in. If by 8 min you dont see him moving out or taking a third its most deffinately mutas or something wonky so you can scan the main here to get a clue. Using proper scouting you should be able to hold off almost anything the zerg can throw at you hope this helps ^^
Are gasless FE still viable in TvP, im having a good deal of trouble fending off the new P air all ins and a few people say it's just not possible with gasless FE. Is that true or do I just need to tighten up my play?
If it is true, what kind of a build would you recommend? I'm just getting back from a long time not playing and used to do a standard 1rax fe gasless into 3 rax, then either take a 3rd or drop 2 more rax depending on the situation.
I like that straightforward bio style and would like to know if I can still get away with it, how I can spot these protoss all ins by scouting, and what is an appropriate response if I'm not sure if it's coming? how many bunkers is too many? should I instantly move my stuff to the high ground? etc.
EPT
