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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On March 29 2013 01:26 awakenx wrote: I think they use shift queue and then make sure the medivacs are over the marines so they pick up all of them, or that's just how I've been doing it You are the man! Thank you! Haven't watched it yet, but much appreciated. **Edit** Exactly what I was looking for!!!!! GM here I come..hahaha.. not. | ||
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Michal
Canada51 Posts
On March 28 2013 19:43 Douillos wrote: Hi fellow terrans, I have a question concerning tvz, using this build: 15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead? PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish. This thread might be of value to you and my latest replay in there, where I think I face what you describe and I use a similar build to you but with earlier gas and tanks. Yeah, it's a lower league game but I'm not sure what level you are. I think the concepts remain. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404215 | ||
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
http://drop.sc/314934 | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
Does anyone have any advice -any at all- on successful widow mine usage? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On March 26 2013 05:24 Spore_ wrote: How good are compositions with ghosts in TvZ ? During mlg some players used them with mixed succes (f.e. Bomber). In pure theory TvZ compostion from twilight of WoL (marine/maruder/medivac/tank) with ghosts, should be provding both strong backbone army (especially with zergs not massing Infestors so often anymore) and mobility like Bio/Widowmine now. Still, players are relying on mines to zone zerg instead of tanks like it once was. Is this a case of gas costs, widowmines being superior to tanks even without vipers around (due to sniping/emping), or just problems with execution ? In theory, Ghosts should be good against Ultralisks/casters (Queens/Infestors/Vipers)—assuming you're still on a high economy as Ghosts are extremely expensive. But then there is the "overqualification issue," which can be summed up as follows: if you have enough time/resources to get Ghosts, can't you just bash him with multi-pronged drops and attacks instead? On March 26 2013 07:13 wag_ wrote: Should I be going mech, bio or marine tank ? Anyone got some proper builds order with a timing push at approx 10mins? Your choice. Pure bio is a reactive composition you can get vs someone going mech. If you stick to Marines/Tanks against mech, you have to include Marauders. The current map pool heavily favors bio or biomech play (except Akilon Wastes). Some kind of gas opening into fast expand into 3 rax Medivacs. Watch for instance Mvp vs YoDa, Cloud Kingdom, IEM. On March 26 2013 18:15 A Wild Sosd wrote: How should I go about breaking contains in TvT? I'm struggling alot when he sieges up at my watch tower on daybreak. The question you should ask is, how come you ended up being contained in the first place? What happened before? Without this information we can't tell you much. Sure people will tell you to get air control and slowly push back his Tanks, etc., but it doesn't matter if you could have avoided this contain with a neater build order or better decisions before. On March 27 2013 00:29 DW-Unrec wrote: how do you guys feel about siege tanks? They used to be made when the zerg is going for roach attacks, but banshees have proven to hold small attacks. Plus now with mines, its much cheaper to control ground when lings charge in for the surround. Against mass roaches, marauders can do the job just fine. The only situation I can think of to make siege tanks, is to prepare for an all in attack when the zerg opens roaches for map control. Since tanks are the only unit capable of competing for territory with early roaches. The roach opening would leave a window open for this siege tank all-in attack, but other than that I don't see another reason to make tanks in tvpz 1) Read my answers to Kasu here and there. Tanks are still valid, but 4M is currently superior as you have more ways to outplay your opponent. 2) Tanks are still the core unit in mech. 3) Tanks are still needed against certain Roaches timings. On March 27 2013 03:23 KingofGods wrote: In which situations would you go hellbats? I seem to have difficulties finding a place for hellbats in my army in the different matchups. TvP: if you play bio, you can add some Hellbats against Zealots-heavy armies. If you play "mech," always (except for raids in mineral lines). TvT: personally I stick to BFH until the big first push (at this time I transform Hellions into Hellbats for better tanking). In mech mirrors, you can stay on Hellbats all the time past early game. TvZ: if you play bio, virtually never (too vulnerable to Banelings, your Reactor Factory production time is better spent on Mines). If you play mech, always past earlygame except for raids in mineral lines. On March 27 2013 04:45 awakenx wrote: Honestly, I'm so lost in TvT right now. I just seem to lose vs anything, mech, bio or marine/tank. The problem is... I really can't find a safe BO for TvT. Yeah, there's reaper FE but that loses to proxy marauder, since there are a lot of 2 player maps in this map pool. I always seem to get cheesed before I can do anything... Can anyone really recommend a safe TvT build? Just 13 scout to check the possible proxy Marauders locations around your base. Gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port is also safe (of course you reactively skip the Reactor against proxies). On March 27 2013 11:33 IgnE wrote: In TvZ: What is the benefit in specific terms of going cc-first vs 1rax expo. I have been using 1 rax expo into double gas, into reactored hellions into banshee. I make ~4-6 hellions and 1 banshee before going into mines. Sometimes drop 3rd oc if zerg goes fast third, otherwise go 2 more rax and 1 more fact for tanks and marines. So what's the benefit of going cc-first in terms of timings and decision tree possibilities compared to 1 rax expo? What maps should you not do cc-first on? Are there any recommended games where cc-first faces 10 pool or roach rush and holds it well? What're a few recommended games where cc-first goes into marine-tank? +3 SCVs, which translates to being a few hundreds ahead mineral-wise once both MULEs come on the field. You can use CC first on all maps against Zerg. Facing 10 pool: just build highground and hope your SCVs don't move outwards. Flash vs Life, Whirlwind, MLG. Facing a Roash rush: Last vs Stephano, Daybreak, MLG. Not many instances of Marines/Tanks given the popularity of 4M. You can check Dream vs TLO, Akilon Wastes, IEM; Last vs Stephano, Daybreak, MLG; Last vs Killer, Daybreak, MLG (reactive addition of Tanks for the Last games). On March 27 2013 12:06 EZR-Aeron wrote: With TvT going mech besides putting up sensor towers everywhere around your base how can you combat drops easily? If you see it coming what is the best way to respond, especially if your army is defending your third from your opponent? Also is the meta still either mech or bio or is it moving towards one or the other? Im finding hellbat/tank/viking pretty solid atm, destroys any marine/tank is a straight up fight. Heck, hellbats alone (well with medivac support) can kill entire tank lines if theres enough of them. On March 27 2013 12:54 ThePianoDentist wrote: you can always make your third a planetary so its a bit easier to defend with fewer units. use marines or floating rax to spot possible doom drops at the earliest possible opportunity, leave a couple of siege tanks in your main base and also try to combine turret rings with widow mines to do splash to medivacs if possible. yes your standing army is a bit weaker but he shouldnt be able to attack into your siege tanks cost effectively anyway. Ideally if you are on 3 bases you will have some vikings so try and have these in a position where they quickly move to intercept drops. i.e. between your bases. when you are on 4 bases and have lots of money make sure you have hi-sec, a ridiculous amount of turrets and dont be afraid to even put a planetary in your main, have TWO planetaries at your fourth If you can make your opponent do a doom drop where you clean it up successfully this can often be gg for the opponent as you just counter and win. Correct for everything except the bolded part. Getting a PF on your third is a bad idea (unbalances your mineral/gas ratio + kills your development and ability to scan, which is critical when meching to know your opponent's army location and scout a possible air transition); if you can't defend your thirds on the current map pool without a PF, just don't play mech. On March 27 2013 12:44 SHODAN wrote: on Akilon Flats, where is the best place to take your third in all matchups? and is this different if you're going mech vT? In TvT and TvZ I always take the third above/below the natural by default because I have nothing by early game to kill the rocks (Dustin Browder too strong for Hellions). On March 27 2013 15:17 Insane wrote: I'm usually opening up with 12 rax/13 gas, which means my marine comes out around when his reaper is first arriving. Ideally I'm following it up with a reaper / reactor at that point, but basically it's impossible to make the reactor for sure, since that stops my unit production for a while. Indeed. If you want to make a Reaper, make it as your first unit going rax 11 gas 11 or rax 12 gas 12. If you want to make a Reactor, build it after two Marines; this way if you see a Reaper coming too early, you just skip this Reactor and keep building Marines. On March 27 2013 20:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Is CC 1st still viable in any form in TvT and TvP in HotS? In TvT, CC first loses to any kind of proxy rax and has a horrible game against continuous Reaper production (probably a build order loss too as your opponent can reactively proxy extra rax or a Factory with a SCV scout). You can try your luck on 4-players maps with long distances like Whirlwind. In TvP, CC first is a possibility to metagame Protoss skipping Probe scout (which is more frequent with the extra scouting tools Protoss was given). The 3 rax Medivacs transition has the same problems (answer to EZR-Aeron) as gasless 1 rax expand against clever Oracle play, but at least you can use the extra minerals you get—compared with gasless 1 rax expand I mean—to build extra defence against that. If you can get away with it while Protoss went for some kind of dual gas "slow" expand without early Oracles, you're in a strong spot (MarineKing vs Seed, Akilon Wastes, MLG Winter Exhibitions). Can I stop 8-8 proxy reaper with CC 1st? No. On March 28 2013 08:39 EZR-Aeron wrote: Been watcing abit of demuslims stream. In TvT hes using alot of 1/1/1 expand opening into 6 hellion/1medivac + marine pressure followed up with more raxes and a third. This getting more common in TvT? Yes, this was already something common at the end of WoL (e. g. Bogus vs Taeja, Daybreak, Code S RO16). Dream was also going this kind of opening against Mvp in their Akilon Wastes game at IEM, though the mutual harass ended up disrupting the thing. Another instance can be found in Bogus vs Flash, Whirlwind, MLG. Another possibility is to get Tanks to cover the early third and dual EB, e. g. Bogus vs Flash, Neo Planet S, MLG (makes you turtly though). Maybe we didn't see the same games, but the build DeMusliM is using lately on his stream is not a 1-1-1 expand but gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port, landing the Factory on the Reactor after 6 Marines. On March 28 2013 18:36 iky43210 wrote: mid master currently, since every zerg blind starts speed for lings very early now, what is the best build I can do to punish that while also ensures i'm doing enough pressure / timing push so I don't get overwhelmed by zerg's econ? You can't punish standard. You can build your third before starting Hellions though. On March 28 2013 18:40 Everlong wrote: I think reactor hellion expo with fast 3rd cc.. You could go for 2 factory bf, but that is risky in case he goes roaches. I find reactor factory expand really good, since you can produce 2-4 mines really fast for roaches or some ling/bling attacks. Then you can secure your 3rd realatively easy with mines and free siege mode. Why would you go for Reactor Hellion expand when you can build the expand earlier and still be safe? Unless you're using the earlier Factory for some kind of super early Armory in a mech build, it's better to go some kind of 1 rax expand. On March 28 2013 19:43 Douillos wrote: Hi fellow terrans, I have a question concerning tvz, using this build: 15 CC 16 Rax 17 1 gas 19 2 marines @100 gas: factory @50 gas: reactor fast 3rd CC ASAP Factory on reactor -> mines tech lab on rax -> marine What i have a lot of trouble is roach all-ins with or without lings. Not the 6-7 roach pressure designed to kill scvs, the full out roach ling all in. Even when I know its coming, I always get raped... Any idea how to get through it? or is it just a build order loss and I have to scout signs of this coming before putting my 3rd CC down and thus get extra rax instead? PS: i can upload a replay when i get home tonight if you wish. Wall natural, and after CC rax gas fact reactor get Marines x2 + Mine before swapping for Hellions. Mine and Hellions behind the Bunker to roast Zerglings, SCVs surrounding the Bunker to mass repair. Something close would be Last vs Stephano, Daybreak, MLG. Tanks are the wrong approach because they let Zerg get away with a failed attempt at little cost since he can drone uninterrupted and end up still ahead in the worker count after the attack, while Hellions threaten a counter-BBQ if he sacrifices everything for SCVs. On March 28 2013 20:14 Douillos wrote: How would you recognize this all in is coming? He didnt take drones of gas? early roach warren? low drone count? With so many people going 2 base muta and safety roach warren im not sure what to look for in this case... No way to know before your Hellions see the Roaches on the map. Don't spend an early Scan, it's useless even if you can see the build. On March 28 2013 23:45 ChillPhiju wrote: Terran vs. Zerg[Masters League]: What do you guys think of adding Ravens early on in the Mid Game ? If you go for a Hellbat/Marine/Marauder composition you are very gas heavy when you take all gases on 3 Bases even with Upgrades etc. So if you add ravens early on, right before you get the 3rd CC ? You have zero gas at this time for Ravens. Bio upgrades and Medivacs absorb everything until some point, and assuming you constantly produce Medivacs it will take some time before you start banking gas. Mines > Hellbats by the way. On March 29 2013 00:59 p1cKLes wrote: Actually, I have a pretty easy and quick question. How do the pros pick up their units into the medivacs so easily and quickly? Especially when they get surrounded by zerglings. I always end up getting a few marines killed when picking up, but when I see the pros do it, it almost doesn’t matter if they are surrounded or not they manage to pick up every single marine lighting fast. Is it just the simple click the control group that your marines are in and click the medivacs? Or is there some special move I don’t know about. Ctrl + click all Marines, shift move on Medivacs, move Medivacs over your soldiers in distress. On March 29 2013 01:11 GimliGloin wrote: Based on the past couple posts about transitioning to a more Sky Terran focus, when should this occur? I mean in terms of adding starports, the base number (4-5?), what to get? Silver level player here so I'm a little lost. 4+ bases in TvT and TvZ, Ravens and/or Battlecruisers with Viking support. Bio can switch to air (Vikings/Banshees, then Battlecruisers) earlier against mech, when your third base is fully saturated. On March 29 2013 01:35 Martin279 wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hi ! This is my first post and i hope i dont mess it up  Currently i am a plat player. I only used 1 Rax FE (with 10 min. stim MMM push) to really learn sc2 (focus on macro) and so far it wasnt bad. But now i really want to switch things up. In HoTs i saw that the Reaper Opening is very good and i want to play it too but most of the time i see player going into bio then. But i would like to have a solid mech build for example against zerg. At the moment i got this going: Against Protoss: Still 1 Rax FE -> No problems with this match up Against Terran: Still 1 Rax FE into Marine-Tank -> i heard Marine-Tank isnt that good anymore in HoTs Against Zerg: Some kind of 1 Reaper Expand into hellion harras into mech. Zerg is really my problem match up. I feel like bio might work from time to time but most likely im going to die against banes and fungles. So i want to try mech with the 1 reaper opening. But i really dont know a good composition. My build order for zerg: 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas @50 gas reaper 16 orbital comand CC Factory 2n Gas reactor on rax switch fact and rax 6 hellions -> harras But from then on i dont know how to get a tight follow up into mech (never really played pure mech before). How many Factorys should i add (and when?) ? When is the right time for starport -> vikings ? Playing mech, when do i really need the third ? Around the 10 minute mark or if possible earlier ? I would be really thankfull for tips. Also: What mech BO should i play in TvT (if i wnat to go pure mech there) ? I dont think i can use the same BO for zerg against terran. Marines/Tanks is fine in TvT (just like in WoL, you still have to add Marauders against mech). With mech you generally go 1 → 3 → 5 facts (3 on 2 bases, 5 on 3 bases, more later depending on the game). Third as soon as possible to have access to your precious fifth and sixth gas; for a benchmark, the Hellions/Banshees build started the third around 7'30. Starport depends on the build order. You can get it right after Factory; the WoL Hellions/Banshees build order is still valid. Mech build orders in TvT: a general recipe is to go for some kind of expand → 1-1-1 (or the reverse, i. e. 1-1-1 expand) → Hellions/Viking → one Raven → extra facts. The build order I use is gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port (swap Factory with Barracks, produce Hellions) Viking lab Raven fact lab BFH with a 8'30 - 9'30 third depending on how many Hellions I produce. Check Flash vs Bogus, Neo Planet S, MLG. On March 29 2013 02:02 rcL wrote: Are gasless FE still viable in TvP, im having a good deal of trouble fending off the new P air all ins and a few people say it's just not possible with gasless FE. Is that true or do I just need to tighten up my play? If it is true, what kind of a build would you recommend? I'm just getting back from a long time not playing and used to do a standard 1rax fe gasless into 3 rax, then either take a 3rd or drop 2 more rax depending on the situation. I like that straightforward bio style and would like to know if I can still get away with it, how I can spot these protoss all ins by scouting, and what is an appropriate response if I'm not sure if it's coming? how many bunkers is too many? should I instantly move my stuff to the high ground? etc. Thx Check my answer to EZR-Aeron here. The build orders I recommend against Protoss to head for bio: a) the "LG-IM build order" i. e. gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port rax rax lab lab EB reactor. Numerous instances of the build at the IEM or MLG. Flash vs PartinG, Neo Planet S, MLG; Bogus vs MC, Daybreak, MLG, etc. b) some kind of Reaper expand → 3 rax Medivacs with an early stim and EB before Factory. Polt vs HerO, Cloud Kingdom, MLG Showdowns and TheStC vs Sage, Cloud Kingdom, Fureur Contest. c) some kind of Reaper expand → 1-1-1 with a bio transition (basically same as the first build except you get a Reaper for extra scouting). Polt vs Creator, Akilon Wastes, IPL FC 48. | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On March 29 2013 03:04 Kasu wrote: Hey all, I'm struggling and becoming somewhat frustrated with the new widow mines. I feel that a zerg who is cautious and has decent control has a good chance to set them off or snipe them, whereas I don't feel able to use my own micro to enhance their effectiveness. It feels as though my success with the unit is more based upon my opponent than myself - all I can do is plant them and hope he fails to react correctly. Does anyone have any advice -any at all- on successful widow mine usage? right click the unit you want it to kill. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
I always seem to simply get ran over, despite being 3/3 and having a nice number of seige tanks/Thors/Hellbats(That or Oracles just come and kill me before I have enough AA). What all should I do, if it's viable? I hate bio .-. And, any chance anyone has any replays ^^''? I typically open gas first, Factory right after Rax, then try to expand while building mines/tanks for early defense... Edit: I only just saw HTOMario's post >< | ||
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Michal
Canada51 Posts
Check my answer to EZR-Aeron here. The build orders I recommend against Protoss to head for bio: a) the "LG-IM build order" i. e. gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port rax rax lab lab EB reactor. Numerous instances of the build at the IEM or MLG. Flash vs PartinG, Neo Planet S, MLG; Bogus vs MC, Daybreak, MLG, etc. b) some kind of Reaper expand → 3 rax Medivacs with an early stim and EB before Factory. Polt vs HerO, Cloud Kingdom, MLG Showdowns and TheStC vs Sage, Cloud Kingdom, Fureur Contest. c) some kind of Reaper expand → 1-1-1 with a bio transition (basically same as the first build except you get a Reaper for extra scouting). Polt vs Creator, Akilon Wastes, IPL FC 48. Hmmm, so far I'm using the gasless FE but reading and watching all the oracle action tells me I'll have to switch it up quickly once the oracle play becomes more popular. Would you recommend this build http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DWnUQfx-HU&ei=9KVUUdfCLuK9ygHE94DQAw&usg=AFQjCNG_aJnXn1qTcv1MOw8zX5dRxofNGA&sig2=nrsBxPKrqj_NOSJF9HV8Tg&bvm=bv.44442042,d.aWc ? (ban hellions, of course) I am currently practicing it for TvT so it would be cool if I could use the same opener for TvP. So I guess no matter what, I should be building a factory after the first rax now? I really liked the WOL 3 rax before factory build, it flowed smoothly but it seems the oracle threat forces 1-1-1 or at least 1-1-2 rax before port. | ||
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Michal
Canada51 Posts
But I think what he means is the opponent can send a single unit to trigger your mine. In that case, targetting has nothing to do with it. I was actually wondering about the same thing. It seems so simple to waste a mine with good micro. You just send a single dude to trigger it. As the mine's owner, you can't stop it from firing or unburrow it so you simply have to rely on surprising the guy with the mines. I guess one tactic is to simply keep them behind some mobile units and try to lure his army into the mines. If he keeps sending small detachments, you'll just get free kills with your mobile dudes. | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
Seriously? If you're not going to be helpful, just don't post. In case you genuinely think I have the micro to: 1)Prevent all of my mines from going off on single units 2)Target fire with each mine individually - since you reset their attack if you target something out of range then surprise surprise I don't have the micro to do that. Nor does anyone. I see engagements all the time on pro streams that are determined heavily by the quality of the mine hits, and I want to know how to put the odds on that in my favour. Really why the fuck would I post for help if "click the unit" was an acceptable answer. Try again now I have clarified the situation or let someone else post something that is worth the effort of reading. | ||
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Picklebread
808 Posts
On March 29 2013 05:32 Kasu wrote: Seriously? If you're not going to be helpful, just don't post. In case you genuinely think I have the micro to: 1)Prevent all of my mines from going off on single units 2)Target fire with each mine individually - since you reset their attack if you target something out of range then surprise surprise I don't have the micro to do that. Nor does anyone. I see engagements all the time on pro streams that are determined heavily by the quality of the mine hits, and I want to know how to put the odds on that in my favour. Really why the fuck would I post for help if "click the unit" was an acceptable answer. Try again now I have clarified the situation or let someone else post something that is worth the effort of reading. Well mines I think are supposed to be a bit random. The trick I think to not letting them all get set off by the opponent is to have units in front of them to kill zerglings or whatnot before they set off and to have them not all bunched up. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On March 29 2013 05:40 Garmer wrote: it's possible to use Tanks\Hellbats\Viking against all race, with success? Why dont you try it really hard as tell as what went wrong | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
On March 29 2013 05:39 Picklebread wrote: Well mines I think are supposed to be a bit random. The trick I think to not letting them all get set off by the opponent is to have units in front of them to kill zerglings or whatnot before they set off and to have them not all bunched up. Yes, that is really what I am getting at - the unit seems somewhat random. Needless to say, I'd prefer a unit that does what I want rather than sometimes being better and sometimes worse than expected. I was hoping for some insight on how to get, if not good, then at least consistent results. Thanks for your piece of advice. When keeping your widowmines behind units, what do you normally do: 1)vs Fungals? 2)to minimise friendly-fire damage? It sounds as though it is basically coming down to my control not being good enough. Was hoping there would be at least something else to it. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On March 29 2013 05:52 padfoota wrote: Why dont you try it really hard as tell as what went wrong i'm trying it, it's good for now, but i'm only diamond | ||
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Picklebread
808 Posts
On March 29 2013 05:53 Kasu wrote: Yes, that is really what I am getting at - the unit seems somewhat random. Needless to say, I'd prefer a unit that does what I want rather than sometimes being better and sometimes worse than expected. I was hoping for some insight on how to get, if not good, then at least consistent results. Thanks for your piece of advice. When keeping your widowmines behind units, what do you normally do: 1)vs Fungals? 2)to minimise friendly-fire damage? It sounds as though it is basically coming down to my control not being good enough. Was hoping there would be at least else to it. Vs fungals if your going bio then you'd want everything split. send tiny groups of units so that only like 3 of them can get hit by a single fungal and have them poke. splitting is the only way to minimize friendly fire. I still feel like i haven't had enough experience with them though, i've like only faced ling bane muta. | ||
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
On March 29 2013 01:26 awakenx wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hV1TL_0PZg I think they use shift queue and then make sure the medivacs are over the marines so they pick up all of them, or that's just how I've been doing it I don't get it. Can you give step-by-step instructions? As I understand it it's: 1) Select the bio forces AND the medivacs 2) Shift-Right-Click everything on each medivac 3) Before everything's been picked up, Shift-Right-Click everything to the destination. Is this correct? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On March 29 2013 05:26 Michal wrote: Hmmm, so far I'm using the gasless FE but reading and watching all the oracle action tells me I'll have to switch it up quickly once the oracle play becomes more popular. Would you recommend this build http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DWnUQfx-HU&ei=9KVUUdfCLuK9ygHE94DQAw&usg=AFQjCNG_aJnXn1qTcv1MOw8zX5dRxofNGA&sig2=nrsBxPKrqj_NOSJF9HV8Tg&bvm=bv.44442042,d.aWc ? (ban hellions, of course) I am currently practicing it for TvT so it would be cool if I could use the same opener for TvP. Yep. I use the same opening too in TvT and TvP, with different transitions of course. So I guess no matter what, I should be building a factory after the first rax now? Yes, it's a lot safer. It's not impossible to defend Oracle play with gasless expand, especially if Protoss sticks to hackneyed tactics such as only making 1 Oracle to take cognizance of your 2 Turrets, but if Protoss is smart I see no way to defend certain things without cumbersome defensive measures, which is bound to mean overreaction and thus waste against a Protoss simply messing around with a single bubble plane without any elaborate plan. Too coinflippy either way. On March 29 2013 05:01 Seam wrote: Is mech viable vs protoss? I always seem to simply get ran over, despite being 3/3 and having a nice number of seige tanks/Thors/Hellbats(That or Oracles just come and kill me before I have enough AA). What all should I do, if it's viable? I hate bio .-. Can't give a definite answer yet, but so far and based on personal experimentation and observation: no. Mech still seems in the gutter in TvP. Hellbats are nice, Mines are nice, having valid openings is nice, but in the end none of this is enough because the problem is always the same: Tanks just lack firepower against Protoss. The primitive trade of mech is "mobility vs firepower," and with Tanks against Protoss you just give up the former without having the latter in return. Protoss barely raise their eyebrow when thinking about 30 Tanks, while even Ultralisks will anxiously look at each other to determine who should charge first against such a critical mass. But. If heavy metal is your thing and you're not afraid of clunky big robots, your best bet is probably to build your army around the Thor, capitalizing on the fact they lost they energy bar and thus their vulnerability to Templars, are better than Tanks against Zealots/Archons and even Immortals, and have at least a built-in anti-air to help against Stargate play. The best composition is thus probably Hellbats/Thors + whatever Ghost/Viking/Mine support is needed. Of course this mish-mash is only a travesty of mech since most of the positioning play is expelled, but this "mechanical style" seems more viable than Tanks. Competent Protosses will have no trouble trashing it with good mixes from Warpgates/Robotics/Stargates, but at least you will spare yourself the pain of seeing Immortals dancing around the smoking ruins of 20+ Tanks after your opponent 1a'd them from a single angle with everything in a blob at the start. | ||
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owned4ursake
Australia59 Posts
I was used to the 10 min medivac +1, stim, shields timing against toss after a gasless expand but now I feel it gets shut down pretty hard by MSC. Also is it still safe to 1 rax gasless expand? I feel with the 2 stalker 1 MSC poke that many toss do recently, it is quite hard to pull off. | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
Has anyone run into Swarm Hosts in Diamond+? I had some Masters guy (in unranked) go ling/hydra/SH against me and it eventually whittled me down into nothing, despite killing off almost all of his mining bases. I burned a lot of scans trying to snipe them down, but it didn't do much. What can I do? How do the Oracle and MSC effect TvP now? And how useful are hellbats in vP? I haven't had the opportunity to play much vP. Widow Mines are fucking AWESOME. I've found they're really effective in TvZ/T, but can't determine how to fit them into TvP, despite the vs. shields damage. Are they basically to support mech comps in vP or is there a use in bio? Finally, has the lategame in vP and vZ changed any? | ||
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