EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 209
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
On November 24 2013 08:10 Sakoha wrote: Thors work great vs ultras, tanks not so much. Thors take a lot of punishment so you can have bio behind them helping deal damage. As you said, marauders are really what you'd like but its understandable that you wouldn't always have the production ready for that. Make sure you're always ready for the greater-spire switch as well =). So at the late game it doesn't hurt to get some additional starports (even if you're not necessarily producing out of them). The tank vs ultra relationship is kinda weird actually. ultras are definitely a counter to tanks, but like anything on the ground once you get enough tanks, they start to overpower everything. Im not sure but I think its around 9 or so tank volleys to start killing ultras. If you have low number of tanks you should always focus fire baneling or infestors. Also the new tanks can sometimes get extra shot off on closing ultras now, so if you have 5+ tanks firing with a decent buffer they don't do too bad. | ||
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
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Fhiz
361 Posts
On November 24 2013 08:10 Sakoha wrote: Thors work great vs ultras, tanks not so much. Thors take a lot of punishment so you can have bio behind them helping deal damage. As you said, marauders are really what you'd like but its understandable that you wouldn't always have the production ready for that. Make sure you're always ready for the greater-spire switch as well =). So at the late game it doesn't hurt to get some additional starports (even if you're not necessarily producing out of them). On that note do you guys just lift off your reactors and build tech labs once it gets to this state of the game? | ||
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Sakoha
United Kingdom25 Posts
On November 25 2013 00:51 Fhiz wrote: On that note do you guys just lift off your reactors and build tech labs once it gets to this state of the game? At my 4th base onwards, I'll start creating all my subsequent rax with tech labs and build a few extra instead of making more reactors. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
Got a few scouting questions, Kind of general all matchup question, when i scv scout what are the main things im looking for and what do they mean? I mean I know you could probably go on for hours about scouting and scan timings but on a very basic level in TvP and TvZ what exactly am I looking for when I scout the gas? Main questions, TvZ what does a gasless expand mean? quick 1 gas, quick 2 gas? And scan timings at all? I hear polt say 6:30 but im not entirely certain. TvP I literally have no idea what im looking for x( how do I spot (or sense) a proxxy/ in base oracle? TvT what are some warning signs he is going for banshee (with or without cloak) also what is a good scan timing to see if he is going for banshees, that gives me time to react? | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On November 25 2013 05:51 Fhiz wrote: Alright great thanks man ^^. Got a few scouting questions, Kind of general all matchup question, when i scv scout what are the main things im looking for and what do they mean? I mean I know you could probably go on for hours about scouting and scan timings but on a very basic level in TvP and TvZ what exactly am I looking for when I scout the gas? Main questions, TvZ what does a gasless expand mean? quick 1 gas, quick 2 gas? And scan timings at all? I hear polt say 6:30 but im not entirely certain. TvP I literally have no idea what im looking for x( how do I spot (or sense) a proxxy/ in base oracle? TvT what are some warning signs he is going for banshee (with or without cloak) also what is a good scan timing to see if he is going for banshees, that gives me time to react? TvZ: I assume you mean gasless by the zerg? It means he wants to drone up before doing whatever he's doing and it rules out some very early cheeses. Usually it's followed up by 2 gas, 2 evos and a 3rd, or if he's very greedy he'll make a bunch of queens and a 3rd before adding gasses. 1 gas can mean speedling into standard or various cheese if he continues to mine gas (or just fast lair). Quick 2 gas is probably some kind of bust. You should scan to see if he's still mining gas after 100 assuming you didn't check that with your reaper. If you see he did you should probably scan/check his natural to see if he has tech structures. If you didn't scout his main at all on a 4 player map and you went CC first you can probably scan around 5:30 to see what hes doing or risk dying to a very early roach attack. TvP - signs of a proxy -> you can't find a 3rd pylon (if you cant find a 2nd pylon its quite clearly an early proxy), he has 2 gas, and he has some chrono saved. Also the units he produces out of his gateway give you a hint. If he has a missing pylon and he isn't making anything out of his gate he's obviously using that money elsewhere. TvT 6:30ish is a good scan timing, if he went gas first you can scan before that so you have turrets in time. Later banshee timings are hard to scout unless you play aggressively in which case you'll get a scout of what he's doing. Also if he makes a raven there's a chance he'll go cloak banshee since he already has the techlabed starport. | ||
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King Fog
Sweden20 Posts
/rant User was warned for this post | ||
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Survivor61316
United States470 Posts
1. Put down your two ebays 2: Build and land the third 3: Add the starport, 2nd factory, and last 4 rax (to a total of 7 rax) | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
On November 25 2013 13:56 Survivor61316 wrote: In TvZ when opening 1 rax FE into 2 reapers and 6 hellions when do you want to do the following: 1. Put down your two ebays 2: Build and land the third 3: Add the starport, 2nd factory, and last 4 rax (to a total of 7 rax) 1. Around 7 minutes 2. 3rd CC is built around the 5 minute mark, normally 5:20, and land it at the 3rd between 8:30-10:00 3. add starport after you start +1/+1, add the extra rax when your eco can support it See this thread for more info | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
Just so I'm clear what is the normal time to send out an scv scout? Also if you see a roach bane bust, is it kind of over reacting if say you fuck up and dont think you have ample defense to throw down 2 ebays at your wall to help soak the damage? | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Your wall should be up around 6:20 anyway otherwise you might just straight up lose to speedlings. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On November 25 2013 08:07 King Fog wrote: TvP below fucking Korean GM level is nothing but pure cancer, what the fuck is this? it's in NO way balanced, holy fucking shit, I've always known Toss is a cancerous race due to shitty game design from the very beginning of WoL-beta, but the state of the game today is completely fucking retarded. Every toss unit is a fucking joke, but MSC and HT has to take the fucking prize. how the actual fuck do I win TvP? Sometimes I beat them with an early push but 85% of the time a photon overcharge is enough to deal with 25 Marines and 1-2 siege tanks. /rant User was warned for this post Can assure you it stays about that good at KR GM level. | ||
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SomethingWitty
Canada94 Posts
On November 25 2013 14:30 iaguz wrote: Can assure you it stays about that good at KR GM level. No. Luckily for Korean GM Terrans the Korean GM Protosses don't make MSC or HTs. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
Is this a bo loss because i loss nearly all matches against this with my 2 reaper FE opening. thx | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On November 25 2013 13:56 Survivor61316 wrote: In TvZ when opening 1 rax FE into 2 reapers and 6 hellions when do you want to do the following: 1. Put down your two ebays 2: Build and land the third 3: Add the starport, 2nd factory, and last 4 rax (to a total of 7 rax) 1. Your options are either put them down after your hellions/3rd CC, or after your addition 2 barracks. Or if you delay your 3rd CC you put down 1 e-bay along with the 2 rax. On 2 player maps usually the racks come before the e-bays to be safe and apply earlier pressure. 2. Again you have a choice of adding 2 rax and an engi before your third which gives you a very early medivac timing that surprises the zerg, or going hellion banshee and then 3rd. Excluding these options or other aggressive 2 base (mine/hellbat/rauder drop/blueflame hellion/ 1 gas cloakless banshee), you make the 3rd as soon as possible which means before even starting your hellions with reaper expand or right after your second depot/bunker with CC first. - You land it as soon as you can based on what the zerg is doing. If the zerg is saturating his third then its safe to land your third, and you can check for this with your hellion/reaper. If his 3rd is very late you should be more careful. Generally try to land it as soon as possible and then you'll learn when it's possible to defend. 3. Starport goes down very shortly after the 2 engis, 2 rax, 2 gas unless you opt for the more aggressive options above. 2nd factory usually goes down after you start 2-2, but generally when you have 5 rax on 3 base. Personally I go to 5 rax and add +3 rax after that once I have the extra minerals (you can add them earlier if your macro slipped and you're floating minerals or if you forgot to add your gasses at a perfect time), but if you macroed perfectly it should be around the time your 3rd is saturated. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
TvP is just brutal these days. Had this one game where I expected DT which I defended with zero loses. He only lost 2 DT so wasnt a big deal really. He then went for a archon/zealot all in with +2 attack. It was insane how fast he had 6-7 archons and 15 zealots. Was around 11-12 and it just killed me. I did lose a drop cuz of poor control so I know its not like it cant be held. Its just that there are so many weird timings and builds that can just simpy kill you. Meanwhile as terran you are on the virge of killing the P lots of times, have huge advantages etc, but P turns it around with a few storms, feedbacks or whatever it is. The good news is that it feels so freaking good to win vs P. It really feels like you are the boss and you climbed mount everest or something  | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 25 2013 17:27 saaaa wrote: What is the otimal response with a 2 reaper openig against a 2 rax reaper opening? Is this a bo loss because i loss nearly all matches against this with my 2 reaper FE opening. thx Yes, it's a build order loss. You have to deviate and get a Reactor after the first Reaper to defend with Marines. On November 25 2013 20:31 Fjodorov wrote: If you had to be aggressive earlier in TvZ and keep trading I feel its even more so now. More and more im getting run over by just lots of stuff a-moving. Zergs are understanding that mines are very weak. With out the right set up and pre split its very difficult now to win unless you damaged zergs economy or macro ability. I can take being outmacroed, outsmarted etc but its so annoying to lose to just lots of stuff just a-moving. Is anyone having any success with marine tank 2 -2 timings or something like that? Like the oldschool parade push? Ive tryed tanks a couple of times but havent had much success against standard muta ling. TvP is just brutal these days. Had this one game where I expected DT which I defended with zero loses. He only lost 2 DT so wasnt a big deal really. He then went for a archon/zealot all in with +2 attack. It was insane how fast he had 6-7 archons and 15 zealots. Was around 11-12 and it just killed me. I did lose a drop cuz of poor control so I know its not like it cant be held. Its just that there are so many weird timings and builds that can just simpy kill you. Meanwhile as terran you are on the virge of killing the P lots of times, have huge advantages etc, but P turns it around with a few storms, feedbacks or whatever it is. The good news is that it feels so freaking good to win vs P. It really feels like you are the boss and you climbed mount everest or something Quite on the contrary, the weakened Mine doesn't allow constant midgame trades anymore unless you have some lead from the opening. If you try to engage with low or medium-sized army, you will get absolutely rolled. Don't bother with Tanks in midgame, the a-click into being stomped issue is even worse with them. So far, it seems the best way to play is 4M + Thors, systematically with a quick fourth since it's very unlikely you manage to kill Zerg by midgame in an even game. Walls will save your life against this kind of push (and it's the same for variants with Storm). If your opponent had that much, he had likely no robo or Cannon in his mineral lines, so you could have tried dropping 1-2 Mine(s) with your Medivac push. Producing Mines will also help you to defend. 4-5 Bunkers behind your wall is the key to hold those attacks. | ||
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Slydie
1927 Posts
It seems like mass lings is becomming more and more fashionable after the mine nerf, has the point come when blindly opening bfh/helbats is a good idea? | ||
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cptjibberjabber
Netherlands87 Posts
Those builds in the opening post seem to be outdated. They're from february 2013, on maps like daybreak and ohana, using widow mine drops that still have the old damage... | ||
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