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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On October 25 2013 01:36 Smurfett3 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 17:16 iaguz wrote:
Idk I just veto it.
There's nothing particularly special about roach busts on that map though I should think. if it's slow roaches then pray to god you spot it before it hits your front door and then just have scvs around a bunker and full wall off whilst you have at least 1 marauder and you're set. If it's speed roaches it can be a little trickier to detect and really at that point all I can say is "outplay them". Which is unhelpful but a lot does come down to how the openings have played out. But do know that you can easily afford to throw away an entire base full of scv's at speed roaches if it means you survive so don't be afraid to do that.
And if there's banelings as well you're going to need more than one bunker. And micro. Spread dat shit.
Alternatively if you open tanks or banshees you have 2 very potent tools to defeat roaches, but banshee openers are easy to spot on polar night and opening tanks without scouting aggression is kinda bad if they don't open aggressively and really fucking bad if they see your tank, realise you have no plans to be aggressive anytime soon and just drone to 80 without making units. Bomber makes excellent use of a single siege tank early on in the game. In his WCS Season 2 Finals series vs scarlett, he would make a single siege tank for defensive purposes, and then utilizes the siege tank with his push with a 3-3 timing vs lair tech units.
I guess siege tanks are really good! wow
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I have no idea what to do in TvT. I really like playing Econ and hate using banshees. The matchup changes so much so quickly I can't figure out what build to use.
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On October 27 2013 23:29 BOJINKINS wrote:
I have no idea what to do in TvT. I really like playing Econ and hate using banshees. The matchup changes so much so quickly I can't figure out what build to use.
My personal favourite when I'm not playing Banshees is a 15-gas Reactor Expand into Hellion/Marine/Medivac Elevator or pressure.
10 Depot
12 Rax
15 Refinery
~20 CC (in-base if opponent 1-basing or aggro, @ nat if opponent is also expanding)
@ 50 gas, Reactor
@ 100 gas, Factory
@ 100% Factory and 6 Marines, swap Factory to Reactor, begin Hellions, build Starport
@ 100% Starport, choose first air unit; if no Banshees are coming, Medivac and elevator him when it pops; if he is going Banshees, get a Viking, 2nd Refinery, Tech Lab on Rax, and swap for a Raven once the Viking is done (save a Scan or two as well)
Use your Marines to defend against Banshees until your Viking/Raven/Turret defense gets set up, and use the Hellions for map control - find out if he is pushing behind the Banshees or trying to 3CC it. Take a 3rd CC of your own, and go up to 3 Factories, getting Blue Flame next. Grab an Armory, all of your gases, and go up to 5 Factories, using a silly amount of Blue-Flame Hellions to ensure he can't move out without you either knowing or punishing it.
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On October 27 2013 23:29 BOJINKINS wrote:
I have no idea what to do in TvT. I really like playing Econ and hate using banshees. The matchup changes so much so quickly I can't figure out what build to use.
Learn to use banshees. 12 gas 13 rax into cloak banshee is the strongest build in the matchup currently (though you do risk getting metagamed by certain builds or just having the banshee fly into a widow mine or something else stupid, the micro required can be pretty damn precise).
If you REALLY DON'T LIKE BANSHEES then 15 gas reactor expands is your best bet. You can get a starport out and an ebay and some turrets and a viking and a fwe mines and if you're lucky your opponent opening banshees doesn't completely demolish you. And if your opponent isn't getting banshees then just get them yourself!
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On October 28 2013 00:21 Jazzman88 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 23:29 BOJINKINS wrote:
I have no idea what to do in TvT. I really like playing Econ and hate using banshees. The matchup changes so much so quickly I can't figure out what build to use. My personal favourite when I'm not playing Banshees is a 15-gas Reactor Expand into Hellion/Marine/Medivac Elevator or pressure. 10 Depot 12 Rax 15 Refinery ~20 CC (in-base if opponent 1-basing or aggro, @ nat if opponent is also expanding) @ 50 gas, Reactor @ 100 gas, Factory @ 100% Factory and 6 Marines, swap Factory to Reactor, begin Hellions, build Starport @ 100% Starport, choose first air unit; if no Banshees are coming, Medivac and elevator him when it pops; if he is going Banshees, get a Viking, 2nd Refinery, Tech Lab on Rax, and swap for a Raven once the Viking is done (save a Scan or two as well) Use your Marines to defend against Banshees until your Viking/Raven/Turret defense gets set up, and use the Hellions for map control - find out if he is pushing behind the Banshees or trying to 3CC it. Take a 3rd CC of your own, and go up to 3 Factories, getting Blue Flame next. Grab an Armory, all of your gases, and go up to 5 Factories, using a silly amount of Blue-Flame Hellions to ensure he can't move out without you either knowing or punishing it.
Have you ever tried using this build to go into bio?
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On October 28 2013 07:06 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 00:21 Jazzman88 wrote:On October 27 2013 23:29 BOJINKINS wrote:
I have no idea what to do in TvT. I really like playing Econ and hate using banshees. The matchup changes so much so quickly I can't figure out what build to use. My personal favourite when I'm not playing Banshees is a 15-gas Reactor Expand into Hellion/Marine/Medivac Elevator or pressure. 10 Depot 12 Rax 15 Refinery ~20 CC (in-base if opponent 1-basing or aggro, @ nat if opponent is also expanding) @ 50 gas, Reactor @ 100 gas, Factory @ 100% Factory and 6 Marines, swap Factory to Reactor, begin Hellions, build Starport @ 100% Starport, choose first air unit; if no Banshees are coming, Medivac and elevator him when it pops; if he is going Banshees, get a Viking, 2nd Refinery, Tech Lab on Rax, and swap for a Raven once the Viking is done (save a Scan or two as well) Use your Marines to defend against Banshees until your Viking/Raven/Turret defense gets set up, and use the Hellions for map control - find out if he is pushing behind the Banshees or trying to 3CC it. Take a 3rd CC of your own, and go up to 3 Factories, getting Blue Flame next. Grab an Armory, all of your gases, and go up to 5 Factories, using a silly amount of Blue-Flame Hellions to ensure he can't move out without you either knowing or punishing it. Have you ever tried using this build to go into bio?
No, I typically don't go into bio from this; however, having seen it done by pros, it's straightforward enough, swapping the Tech Lab back to Factory for Tanks, getting two more Rax and Stim/Shields, then transitioning into the standard double Ebay, 5 Barracks, 1 Factory (tanks) and 1 Reactor Starport for the midgame, aiming to secure your third and take position on the map.
As a second however, I feel that if you're going Reactored Hellions plus getting the safety Viking->Raven, you might as well be throwing yourself down a mech pathway. Mech is very viable in the matchup, and requires a very different approach from Marine/Tank.
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Not to be a pain but can anyone give me some insight on my question?
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On October 25 2013 08:01 Fhiz wrote:
Hey guys, big noob here (silver) I played in WoL up to gold and recently came back, didnt see anything about this in the op so here we go.
TvP
I saw the recommended builds for each match up but a lot of them (especially TvP) suggested some sort of reaper play or a CC first build, being the low level player I am, I find the reaper really hard to control and have a hard time multi tasking with things as simple as building workers and microing, would you recommend I go for the reaper builds and still try it out and practice with the reaper or go for CC first or?
Also in TvZ, I know this is kind of a broad question, but I am having a hard time controlling mines and splitting marines when engaging, again should I just keep practicing? I feel like such an idiot when i lose like 100 supply to around 15-20 banelings ~_~ And reaper openings are pretty much standard for this from what i've seen but again it's really hard for me to do anything funky with it.
TvT
How do I engage vs him if it is marine tank vs marine tank as usual? I want to be on the aggressive but I don't know how to attack especially in the late game when there are turrets everywhere and tanks positioned in key spots. Do i just need to win before the late game and go for like an 11 minute doom drop?
Thanks in advance ^.^
Again sorry if these things have been asked
TvP
Don't feel the need to do anything special with the reaper. It only has to scout and stay alive, it doesn't need to kill anything, you don't need more than one.
You can still go 1 rax expo without reaper, but it'll be harder to scout your enemy.
TvZ
Try and do some splitting before the battle, just push forward with smaller groups and you take much less risk.
TvT
It's the same for him. At lower levels TvT is very much a game of patience, let him suicide into you!
TvT is really hard, you need to study pro games.
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No, I typically don't go into bio from this; however, having seen it done by pros, it's straightforward enough, swapping the Tech Lab back to Factory for Tanks, getting two more Rax and Stim/Shields, then transitioning into the standard double Ebay, 5 Barracks, 1 Factory (tanks) and 1 Reactor Starport for the midgame, aiming to secure your third and take position on the map.
As a second however, I feel that if you're going Reactored Hellions plus getting the safety Viking->Raven, you might as well be throwing yourself down a mech pathway. Mech is very viable in the matchup, and requires a very different approach from Marine/Tank.
I tried both ForGG opening and reaper expand and from my point of view reaper expand is really the go to build for bio. The main advantage is that you can get a very good scout on what your opponent is doing without throwing a scan. It's very versatile to deny allin and as you produce marines instead of hellions, the early unit you made are the core bio unit.
I feel that in general forGG build is way better for mech play.
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What do you guys think of tvt cc first on ladder into 3 rax --> medivac --> marine tank (pure bio vs mech)
I play at masters lvl and I don't have any aspirations entering high masters. I feel with good bio control it's good vs banshees, elevators, fast marine/mine drops and 1 base tank allins if you pull all your natural scv's with or without medivacs. And marauders mop up mass hellions. The thing I noticed is how often players now try to start aggressive on 1 base in tvt and do silly stuff like a tank allin and then still trying to expand. Though I think pure bio is great vs hellion/tank it's awkward vs hellbat/tank. Wouldn't marauder tank be better vs hellbat tank than a bio tank play with more emphasis on marines? At least that's what I saw Polt doing on his stream a while ago.
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Mar tank is so hard to use to fight Hellbat tank for 1 thing your production for Mar is 1/2 that of hellbats and it uses gas which is needed for tank production. #2 while mar are tanky and hellbats are tanky hellbats do more damage vses mar then mar do to hellbats even though they may slow them all hellbats are is a good meatshield for tanks to get set up and tanks do bonus damage to mar and not to hellbats + since they will have more tanks because they are not producing marauder you will quickly fall behind after 1 bad engagement
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In TvZ/TvP and I'm at the Protoss/Zerg's base, and the Zerg/Protoss is at my base and it's been a relatively even game. Do I just base trade? What do I even do after? Try and establish a base somewhere else or just all in? I never understand these weird game scenarios.
http://drop.sc/363544
Replay. I played this out completely poorly though and I'm just trying to show the situation in this game.
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On October 28 2013 22:17 Chaggi wrote:In TvZ/TvP and I'm at the Protoss/Zerg's base, and the Zerg/Protoss is at my base and it's been a relatively even game. Do I just base trade? What do I even do after? Try and establish a base somewhere else or just all in? I never understand these weird game scenarios. http://drop.sc/363544Replay. I played this out completely poorly though and I'm just trying to show the situation in this game.
The key to winning in base-trade scenarios is anticipating them, and being mentally prepared with your reaction.
Every game will have a different reaction depending on your opponents army strength and your/his number of bases etc..
Either way, lifting your buildings and securing another base is important. Fortifying a planetary or if you don't have one, make bunkers at one of your safer orbitals. Then if you see that he's finishing your base, reconstruct depots and start building units out of your buildings as soon as possible (don't make new addons).
As for your own army in his base, in the case of protoss - prioritize his pylons to unpower his gates, and in the zergs case prioritize his tech structures and economy.
You need to estimate how long you have before you need to come back to save your base.
Terran has an advantage in these situations, both because of your ability to lift your buildings and because you have extreme mobility with medivacs. So run around the map denying him bases and production while trying to sneak build as much army as possible until you can engage him. If he splits his army snipe small unit packs and run etc.
Also - at the first stage of the base trade, while you're still producing and mining at your main, rally all your units to the back of your main to build up as much as possible and then based on the size of his army, either fight his army trying to kill off as many important units as possible or pick up in medivacs to join up with your main force/remaining expansions.
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GOLD league
in TvZ i believe reaper are the best way to open up
in TvP and in TvT, i usually go reaper openings
i thought TvT you should go reaper openings because it techs faster but sometimes i think 1 rax gasless expo is better
im actually confused on what i could open up in the TvP matchup
basically my question is...
in TvT and TvP, is it better to go reaper opening than a 1 rax gasless expansion?
*my thought is because you tech faster in reapers for TvT*
**i dont know whats better in the TvP matchup**
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In TvT you have to ask yourself how are you using that extra gas to gain an advantage vses lets say a Banshee opener or 1 Rax Gasless expansion?
For example because of the investment of Banshees and cloak you will have the possibility to go a +1 Stim timing with Marines and Medivac before he will have stim or +1
Or 1 Rax Gasless expansion What will be a normal stim timing for that where you can get Stim + Tanks faster than him or even medivacs faster than him to make up for possibly not having as many marines as him.
TvP you should open with one of the two which I suggest opening with CC first and get used to the all in timings that you are vunerable to. This will also teach you how to play midgame quite well by giving you a bigger army by getting your 9:45-10:00 5 rax and 12:30-13:00 8 rax powering into late game.Just remember to scout so that your SCV is leaving your base at 2:50-3:00
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On October 29 2013 01:06 Pirfiktshon wrote:
TvP you should open with one of the two which I suggest opening with CC first and get used to the all in timings that you are vunerable to. This will also teach you how to play midgame quite well by giving you a bigger army by getting your 9:45-10:00 5 rax and 12:30-13:00 8 rax powering into late game.Just remember to scout so that your SCV is leaving your base at 2:50-3:00
Easier is just to say: scout with an SCV sometime after dropping your first Barracks, but before or as you are starting the second one. Personally I usually just go 14 CC, 15 Rax, 16 scout (rally that SCV to Protoss base), 17 Rax. Nice easy-to-remember timings that way. Also, you can just say, if an early Probe comes in, I attack it with an SCV, and as soon as he either ducks out or isn't harassing my SCVs, go scout the Protoss with said SCV.
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Haha we all read your guide which is freaking awesome ^^ but I like to say 2:50-3:00 because no matter what build that is the most optimized times on Most maps for your scv to leave to scout as it will get there right before MSC or zlot or stalker as long as not a 10-10 and you will be able to see whether or not they proxied or have 2 gas or just 1 gate FE. Its pretty nice you can test this too 
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Someone please convince me that scouting with an scv is important in TvT. I usually open 12 gas cloaked banshee in the matchup and don't specifically feel I'm in danger of anything not proxy 2 rax. If I do scout, what should I be looking for, and how should I prepare for them?
Also in TvP, I'm always worried by potential counterattacks when making my first push with medivacs. When I used to watch pro play months ago, I'd often see terrans rallying their units outside of the protoss base to keep the pressure up and contain the toss for as long as possible, so I've been doing the same for a while. But that makes it really easy for protoss to make an early warp prism and just warp in 5 zealots that can't be beat easily since all my units are so far away. What should I be doing in these positions?
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On October 29 2013 14:53 halpimcat wrote:
Someone please convince me that scouting with an scv is important in TvT. I usually open 12 gas cloaked banshee in the matchup and don't specifically feel I'm in danger of anything not proxy 2 rax. If I do scout, what should I be looking for, and how should I prepare for them?
??
Most Terrans agree that you should not SCV scout when going gas first.
On October 29 2013 14:53 halpimcat wrote:Also in TvP, I'm always worried by potential counterattacks when making my first push with medivacs. When I used to watch pro play months ago, I'd often see terrans rallying their units outside of the protoss base to keep the pressure up and contain the toss for as long as possible, so I've been doing the same for a while. But that makes it really easy for protoss to make an early warp prism and just warp in 5 zealots that can't be beat easily since all my units are so far away. What should I be doing in these positions?
Reference a specific game you are thinking about it might help to rewatch it. Also, if you have pinpointed what you know is something requires a reaction then you need to pinpoint how you will scout the fact that he is going to do that tactic and then have a plan in place to deal with it.
Watch his robo unit count and/or ID the flight paths that are viable and spot them.
Maybe rally a specific number of production cycles forward and then have the rally set to be in your base for when the timing that is hurting you hits.
Alot of solutions come to mind but I have no idea what your actual game plan is so I can't really give good advice as to how to deal with this mid game issue.
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EPT
