EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 188
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On October 24 2013 00:51 SC2Toastie wrote: MVP used a lot of these in WCS Europe. Hellbat nerf happened, but they should still work with some slight adaptations. Flash vs Hyvaa on polar night last GSL. It's about 3 months old and it uses a recently nerfed unit that almost doesn't exist anymore but if you want to relive the bad old days there you go. | ||
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
There's nothing particularly special about roach busts on that map though I should think. if it's slow roaches then pray to god you spot it before it hits your front door and then just have scvs around a bunker and full wall off whilst you have at least 1 marauder and you're set. If it's speed roaches it can be a little trickier to detect and really at that point all I can say is "outplay them". Which is unhelpful but a lot does come down to how the openings have played out. But do know that you can easily afford to throw away an entire base full of scv's at speed roaches if it means you survive so don't be afraid to do that. And if there's banelings as well you're going to need more than one bunker. And micro. Spread dat shit. Alternatively if you open tanks or banshees you have 2 very potent tools to defeat roaches, but banshee openers are easy to spot on polar night and opening tanks without scouting aggression is kinda bad if they don't open aggressively and really fucking bad if they see your tank, realise you have no plans to be aggressive anytime soon and just drone to 80 without making units. | ||
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Strater
12 Posts
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On October 24 2013 17:16 iaguz wrote: Idk I just veto it. There's nothing particularly special about roach busts on that map though I should think. if it's slow roaches then pray to god you spot it before it hits your front door and then just have scvs around a bunker and full wall off whilst you have at least 1 marauder and you're set. If it's speed roaches it can be a little trickier to detect and really at that point all I can say is "outplay them". Which is unhelpful but a lot does come down to how the openings have played out. But do know that you can easily afford to throw away an entire base full of scv's at speed roaches if it means you survive so don't be afraid to do that. And if there's banelings as well you're going to need more than one bunker. And micro. Spread dat shit. Alternatively if you open tanks or banshees you have 2 very potent tools to defeat roaches, but banshee openers are easy to spot on polar night and opening tanks without scouting aggression is kinda bad if they don't open aggressively and really fucking bad if they see your tank, realise you have no plans to be aggressive anytime soon and just drone to 80 without making units. Bomber makes excellent use of a single siege tank early on in the game. In his WCS Season 2 Finals series vs scarlett, he would make a single siege tank for defensive purposes, and then utilizes the siege tank with his push with a 3-3 timing vs lair tech units. | ||
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FlowerBunny
Sweden187 Posts
Thanks for any help! :D | ||
Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Edit: Oh and make sure you save 1 scan at about 6:20 for the initial banshee attack also make sure you build supply depots around your base with enough space marines could get inbetween the supply depot and the banshee and have some room to micro without misclicking on the sd. Also build ur first rax in a secure location that your TL can't get sniped..... | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On October 24 2013 16:22 iaguz wrote: Flash vs Hyvaa on polar night last GSL. It's about 3 months old and it uses a recently nerfed unit that almost doesn't exist anymore but if you want to relive the bad old days there you go. This is exactly what I was looking for, cheers man | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Fhiz
361 Posts
TvP I saw the recommended builds for each match up but a lot of them (especially TvP) suggested some sort of reaper play or a CC first build, being the low level player I am, I find the reaper really hard to control and have a hard time multi tasking with things as simple as building workers and microing, would you recommend I go for the reaper builds and still try it out and practice with the reaper or go for CC first or? Also in TvZ, I know this is kind of a broad question, but I am having a hard time controlling mines and splitting marines when engaging, again should I just keep practicing? I feel like such an idiot when i lose like 100 supply to around 15-20 banelings ~_~ And reaper openings are pretty much standard for this from what i've seen but again it's really hard for me to do anything funky with it. TvT How do I engage vs him if it is marine tank vs marine tank as usual? I want to be on the aggressive but I don't know how to attack especially in the late game when there are turrets everywhere and tanks positioned in key spots. Do i just need to win before the late game and go for like an 11 minute doom drop? Thanks in advance ^.^ Again sorry if these things have been asked | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On October 25 2013 01:36 Smurfett3 wrote: Bomber makes excellent use of a single siege tank early on in the game. In his WCS Season 2 Finals series vs scarlett, he would make a single siege tank for defensive purposes, and then utilizes the siege tank with his push with a 3-3 timing vs lair tech units. And you'll note in their first game bomber got completely steamrolled by Scarlett because he thought he could outgreed zergs through passive play. I don't think this is a very good idea. If you think you can bulldoze your opponent through sheer mechanics (Which bomber does) then maybe it's not so bad but generally speaking I don't like just getting tanks blindly. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On October 25 2013 08:54 iaguz wrote: And you'll note in their first game bomber got completely steamrolled by Scarlett because he thought he could outgreed zergs through passive play. I don't think this is a very good idea. If you think you can bulldoze your opponent through sheer mechanics (Which bomber does) then maybe it's not so bad but generally speaking I don't like just getting tanks blindly. Iaguz, I hate to disagree with you on this knowing that you are far, far better than i am, and I am potentially speaking out of my ass, but i think it's important to note that in game 1 of Scarlett vs Bomber, Bomber doesn't build hellions at all, whereas in later games vs. both Scarlett and Jaedong, as well as his most recent GSTL match, he goes hellion into 3 siege tank into mines and keeps the zerg relatively under control. In the games where he goes hellion --> tank, he doesn't get nearly as close to the pure power of an 80 drone 4 base zerg as he does without the hellions. I would argue that tanks don't hurt you unneccesarily as long as you build hellions to go along with it. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
EDIT- Symbol vs bomber recently perfect example of what I mean. He makes tanks and finds himself turtling hard. Symbol responds like a sensible person and creeps/drones the whole map. Bomber struggles a lot then dies. But maybe there's some merit to it. I don't know. Bombers push did almost take out symbol despite having to advance over a mile of creep, bomber could of tightened up his defences vs the runbys and mutalisks ab it better and he also lost 4 hellions at the start for basicaly no reason, and they could of been denying creep a bit. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On October 25 2013 11:20 iaguz wrote: I'd probably have to go over those games again. It's highly likely bomber knows something I don't but making a few tanks blindly generally isn't that great unless they open really aggressively. It was bad in wings and it's bad in this game too. EDIT- Symbol vs bomber recently perfect example of what I mean. He makes tanks and finds himself turtling hard. Symbol responds like a sensible person and creeps/drones the whole map. Bomber struggles a lot then dies. But maybe there's some merit to it. I don't know. Bombers push did almost take out symbol despite having to advance over a mile of creep, bomber could of tightened up his defences vs the runbys and mutalisks ab it better and he also lost 4 hellions at the start for basicaly no reason, and they could of been denying creep a bit. I think part of the logic behind Bomber's tanks is because it fits with the nature of his push. His goal is: once he moves out with 2/2, he just wants to move, move, move, and not be delayed at all. He wants to make or break his game within a couple minutes, so he doesn't have time to engage in the extended pressure that most TvZs work as, where terran and zerg sit their armies within striking distance of each other and send out only small groups of units. The tanks allow him to keep pushing no matter what, and eventually make a check move with a siege on a hatchery. But if you don't play his style, or have his macro or incredible push micro, the tanks are mostly useless. | ||
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klup
France612 Posts
Hey guys! GM terran on EU, what builds are good TvT? I know it is a wierd question, but I kind of feel of track with the opening stage and securing a safe mid game. I don't like opening banshees, so if we eliminate those builds, what are good openings that are pretty solid? I use to do reaper expand into reactor and factory/starport with mines, then into 2 more rax and then standard marine tank. But I always seem to get behind no matter what I am playing against. So what openings are viable to secure a safe mid game with marine tank? Thanks for any help! :D The reaper expand is the safest build to get the game into the mid/late game if you want to go bio tank. I have a lot of sucess with it because it is very adaptable to the situation. It counters pretty well any 1/1/1 build with good macro and positioning. If your opponent open something economic, you should drop him with 4 marines and with 2 mines you build from your factory. I only see a 1 rax expo no gas to be more economic than this build in TvT but remember that with your early scouting ability you can spot this and even attempt some greediest things going for quick 3rd CC for example by cutting your gas for a little bit. Besides that you have the forGG build but it's more for mech players and not really well for Bio imo as you delay stim too much. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
This is because the tanks delay the push in general you figure every tank is 150-125 thats 1 upgrade or rax how ever you want to look at it. So if you make 3 you have to cut something in order to get those 3 tanks out which if they don't have a purpose early on such as defending a 3rd with zerg investing in the lair attack then there is a lesser return on investment later on in the game and they actually hinder and delay your push significantly...... | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On October 25 2013 22:03 Pirfiktshon wrote: Just to be clear the Siege tanks against scarlett where a reaction to not only the map being a Wide open 3rd but also Scarlett's ability to do very very very good timings with lair tech. That being said Opening tanks is O.K. though it delays some important upgrades so that if zerg didn't invest in the lair tech timing attacks which hits approx 13 mins ( which is just about when Terran is getting into full swing with a 3cc opener ) that were performed in that game and tech to hive while he tried to push and delay that push with smaller amounts of lair tech then scarlett would have opened up new timings with either BL or Ultra infestor which against siege tanks Either one of those comps rofl stomps siege tank play...... This is because the tanks delay the push in general you figure every tank is 150-125 thats 1 upgrade or rax how ever you want to look at it. So if you make 3 you have to cut something in order to get those 3 tanks out which if they don't have a purpose early on such as defending a 3rd with zerg investing in the lair attack then there is a lesser return on investment later on in the game and they actually hinder and delay your push significantly...... Actually he did that build vs Jaedong and GSTL zergs as well. It was his star station tvz build. For fun (and a bit of exasperation because my tvz right now is shit), I mucked around a bit with tanks in tvz. What I found, other then the obvious which is 3 tanks shit on aggression really bloody hard, is that if you're playing on a map where zerg wil have difficulty getting their creep past a 4th it's actually not all that bad. Getting 3 tanks, a few mines and a shitload of 2/2 marines parked right up on that is a right bugger for zerg to deal with. Derelict watcher is a perfect example of a map where this sort of thing is good as zerg can easily creep all down the middle but not past their 4th. So that was a pleasant surprise. I suppose bomber looks silly when the zerg is focusing really hard on getting creep all over, which is what scarlett and symbol are good at (also jaedong in WCS S2 finals but for some stupid reason he didn't win). | ||
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