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On September 03 2013 22:20 PPN wrote:
jarod> Unless you wall off which is a very fishy tell for the protoss opponent, I don't see how you can make make sure probe does not see you took gas early and more than necessary for a mere reaper. I'd suspect quite fast something is amiss especially if there is no add-on on barrack.
Another issue is that I'm not sure I understand how mines are supposed to delay 2nd base apart from forcing detection (going robo or stargate before nexus instead of the other way around) since protoss could very well keep his stalkers up the ramp and scout/sacrifice a probe down and bring another one to build 2nd Nexus if he knows there is only a mine or 2. Mines don't hit buildings.
Also oracle opener could very well kill you on the spot, especially if proxied and chronoboosted. I think you're underestimating how fast it can be.
Depending on the map you can or cannot wall of. Even so... you are right about the protoss scouting your gas income... and if they see that you take too much gas income they something is up but they dont really have the time to wait to see what... since the baracks is done they don`t have much time to stay in your base anymore... And after the barack is done you can remove 1 2 scvs from the gas, mines are 25 gas.. so after you have your factory and reaper you don`t need that much.
If they put down the 2nd nexus is really hard for them not to take too much damage.. since they will be on 1 gate vs reapers and mines.. even with 2 stalker is hard not to let mines in your mineral line cause of reaper. Once you mine is up on the ramp you are in advantage.
About the proxy stargate you can 1. scout with you reaper for close proxy or see on their base. If they go proxy fast stargate they can skip/delay stalker, mothership core.. depends on player and positioning.. so is ok.
About going undetected out with a probe.
Case 1. you leave your base on diff path before hes probe arrives.
Case 2. His probe is on your base you put 1 scv to follow it.. he will make circles while you sneak out another scv when not in sight for the 2nd probe.
Then again.. this is far from a really good build or so.. but its working out for me for some reason. Please dismantle it.
The mined gas is a good observation. I said i guess before that even if you factory get discovered.. you can react and be in advantage.. usually wehnyou factory is discovered they don`t do nexus that fast.. cause of faster detection.
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Can anyone tell me or link me how to beat Scarllet stype TvZ. 4 queens or more.. I have trouble with this lately since a lot of zergs I faced play this style.. my scouting is denied... my aggression in mid game when i move out is denied... my drops are denied.. since they are not that strong in 10 min mark..
What i face is lot of queens with creepsrepad and with defensive spore crawlers at the 3rd base. Wall at natural.. This almost denies all my pressure.. I play bio with some hellion presure like 6 into moving out when my first 2 medivacs are out while taking the 3rd. My hellions are deflected... my drops are also and queens can heal themselves a really long time on a straight fight until the zerlings overwhelm me.
From here some zerg go directly to ultralisk... which is really safe for them to defend with this style.. this is what i feel
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On September 04 2013 10:01 Whatson wrote:Last night's TvP was actually super interesting for those of you who watched AxiomAcer vs FXO GSTL. + Show Spoiler +Innovation went standard CC first, but he stayed on 2-bases, building his 3rd CC at 11:30. Instead of a faster 3rd CC he went for 2 additional rax (3 techlabs, 2 reactors), and started his ghost academy at 10:30 right after starting his +1 armor, and even before his armory started, which is entirely different from the metagame right now. When Hurricane's 1/1 chargelot archon timing hit, Innovation was only a few seconds away from having EMPs on his 5 ghosts. Has anybody seen/tried something like this before? I have no idea if this was merely reactionary play or if this will become a new style.
There was a build MKP did in WoL which focused around early ghosts. 1rax FE, 2 extra rax, 2xTL and 1 reactor on rax, then ghost academy on 46supply. Push with MMM ball and 2 ghosts with stun, cs, conf and energy for 1 EMP on ghosts each. This was pre-radius nerf though iirc.
This style of innovations sounds more researched/reactionary. Can't see it being great vs protoss who get colossi first.
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On September 04 2013 15:21 jarod wrote:
Can anyone tell me or link me how to beat Scarllet stype TvZ. 4 queens or more.. I have trouble with this lately since a lot of zergs I faced play this style.. my scouting is denied... my aggression in mid game when i move out is denied... my drops are denied.. since they are not that strong in 10 min mark..
What i face is lot of queens with creepsrepad and with defensive spore crawlers at the 3rd base. Wall at natural.. This almost denies all my pressure.. I play bio with some hellion presure like 6 into moving out when my first 2 medivacs are out while taking the 3rd. My hellions are deflected... my drops are also and queens can heal themselves a really long time on a straight fight until the zerlings overwhelm me.
From here some zerg go directly to ultralisk... which is really safe for them to defend with this style.. this is what i feel
How is your 2/2 attack going? Z shouldnt be able to tech to ultras and survive your pain train. When they build enough base defense just concentrate on macro and good engagements, the dmg was done already.
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What is good way to push forward against a siege line in a TvT where both sides go Marine/Tank?
I often come across my opponent's siege line and have more Vikings but how do I push ahead?
Especially if he's still on 2 bases I've found that drops often get shut down by Vikings or Turrets.
I could try expanding more but I think that makes me more vulnerable to drops.
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On September 04 2013 16:50 gingerfluffmuff wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 15:21 jarod wrote:
Can anyone tell me or link me how to beat Scarllet stype TvZ. 4 queens or more.. I have trouble with this lately since a lot of zergs I faced play this style.. my scouting is denied... my aggression in mid game when i move out is denied... my drops are denied.. since they are not that strong in 10 min mark..
What i face is lot of queens with creepsrepad and with defensive spore crawlers at the 3rd base. Wall at natural.. This almost denies all my pressure.. I play bio with some hellion presure like 6 into moving out when my first 2 medivacs are out while taking the 3rd. My hellions are deflected... my drops are also and queens can heal themselves a really long time on a straight fight until the zerlings overwhelm me.
From here some zerg go directly to ultralisk... which is really safe for them to defend with this style.. this is what i feel How is your 2/2 attack going? Z shouldnt be able to tech to ultras and survive your pain train. When they build enough base defense just concentrate on macro and good engagements, the dmg was done already.
Well first atacks are liek this for me.. reaper at start.. hellions... marine widow with 2 medivacs..
After this 2/2 atacks and some drops. But somehow the zergs have units when I arrive with 2/2 .. enough to delay until ultras.. Maybe I`m just bad... So your sugestions is that if they turtle 3 base without taking any damage.. I should relly on my 2/2 atack and win the game there.. ? or gain an advantage.. Even if 5 ultras are out.. i`m kindof screwed.. they will have at least 2/4 on those ultras..
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On September 04 2013 17:29 Thezzy wrote:
What is good way to push forward against a siege line in a TvT where both sides go Marine/Tank?
I often come across my opponent's siege line and have more Vikings but how do I push ahead?
Especially if he's still on 2 bases I've found that drops often get shut down by Vikings or Turrets.
I could try expanding more but I think that makes me more vulnerable to drops.
If you have air control, he has to constantly use scans to make sure you aren't advancing your siege tanks. Wait for his scan to run out, and then advance 2-3 siege tanks a little bit so they're in range. This way you can slowly push him or force him to retreat/attack. Also if you have a definitive lead in army and it's the right terrain, you can flank him from several angles with your army. And if you have air control how can your drops get shut down by vikings?
There is almost always a weak spot where you can drop. Even through missile turrets you can sneak in 2-3 medivacs if you boost past them and stutter-drop.
Also out-expanding him at the same time is correct, while using turrets/sensor towers yourself to secure yourself vs drops. And putting PFs at the more vulnerable expansions.
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On September 04 2013 18:35 jarod wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 16:50 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On September 04 2013 15:21 jarod wrote:
Can anyone tell me or link me how to beat Scarllet stype TvZ. 4 queens or more.. I have trouble with this lately since a lot of zergs I faced play this style.. my scouting is denied... my aggression in mid game when i move out is denied... my drops are denied.. since they are not that strong in 10 min mark..
What i face is lot of queens with creepsrepad and with defensive spore crawlers at the 3rd base. Wall at natural.. This almost denies all my pressure.. I play bio with some hellion presure like 6 into moving out when my first 2 medivacs are out while taking the 3rd. My hellions are deflected... my drops are also and queens can heal themselves a really long time on a straight fight until the zerlings overwhelm me.
From here some zerg go directly to ultralisk... which is really safe for them to defend with this style.. this is what i feel How is your 2/2 attack going? Z shouldnt be able to tech to ultras and survive your pain train. When they build enough base defense just concentrate on macro and good engagements, the dmg was done already. Well first atacks are liek this for me.. reaper at start.. hellions... marine widow with 2 medivacs.. After this 2/2 atacks and some drops. But somehow the zergs have units when I arrive with 2/2 .. enough to delay until ultras.. Maybe I`m just bad... So your sugestions is that if they turtle 3 base without taking any damage.. I should relly on my 2/2 atack and win the game there.. ? or gain an advantage.. Even if 5 ultras are out.. i`m kindof screwed.. they will have at least 2/4 on those ultras..
If you see your opponent is going queen heavy, sending his queens far out on creep to attack your hellions or even getting a spine to help secure his creep spread there's a good chance he's droning heavily and doesn't have many lings at this point. Try to bait his queens as far out as possible and run past to his nat/main to fry his drones. Versus this greedy style a mistake in queen positioning will cost him dearly.
Also with 2 reapers and 6 hellions you can often fight and kill a few queens.
Your next timing should be at 11:30ish with 1/1 2 medivacs and about 130ish supply where you clear creep and engage if he has too little.. From that point on you want to start engaging him constantly, not waiting around until you have 2-2. The TvZ guide in the strategy forum gives a good idea on how to approach this matchup. You want to be applying constant pressure on the zerg so he has to defend with his mutas until you have 3-3 at which point you have a large advantage.
If your pushes are failing, check to see if you're meticulous enough with your mine placement/control. Your mines should be spread out and in a line back so that when you retreat, there will be mines to fall back on. Then you also want to try and target baneling clumps with them (re-clicking the mines will delay their attack until you stop).
Finally, don't panic when you see ultras. Just transfer a few rax to techlabs and build some more rax. Make a planetary outside your base and drop him a bit. Then when you have a good composition you should be able to engage them, while buying time with your drops.
Also "turtling on 3 base" is pretty bad for zerg.. That's very little gas for him and shouldn't make for a very scary hive army.In this case I wouldn't worry about breaking him as much as containing him on 3 base, denying a 4th.
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On September 04 2013 18:35 jarod wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 16:50 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On September 04 2013 15:21 jarod wrote:
Can anyone tell me or link me how to beat Scarllet stype TvZ. 4 queens or more.. I have trouble with this lately since a lot of zergs I faced play this style.. my scouting is denied... my aggression in mid game when i move out is denied... my drops are denied.. since they are not that strong in 10 min mark..
What i face is lot of queens with creepsrepad and with defensive spore crawlers at the 3rd base. Wall at natural.. This almost denies all my pressure.. I play bio with some hellion presure like 6 into moving out when my first 2 medivacs are out while taking the 3rd. My hellions are deflected... my drops are also and queens can heal themselves a really long time on a straight fight until the zerlings overwhelm me.
From here some zerg go directly to ultralisk... which is really safe for them to defend with this style.. this is what i feel How is your 2/2 attack going? Z shouldnt be able to tech to ultras and survive your pain train. When they build enough base defense just concentrate on macro and good engagements, the dmg was done already. Well first atacks are liek this for me.. reaper at start.. hellions... marine widow with 2 medivacs.. After this 2/2 atacks and some drops. But somehow the zergs have units when I arrive with 2/2 .. enough to delay until ultras.. Maybe I`m just bad... So your sugestions is that if they turtle 3 base without taking any damage.. I should relly on my 2/2 atack and win the game there.. ? or gain an advantage.. Even if 5 ultras are out.. i`m kindof screwed.. they will have at least 2/4 on those ultras..
Imo the 2/2 is the strongest timing T has. Also you can take your own 3rd quite early if there are no roaches coming. When Z wants to prevent your 3rd, he has to spend gas, cause lings alone get slaughtered by clumped marines.
I suck at this game, but i mostly trust in the 2/2 pain train to get the upper hand in this matchup. Its hard for the Z imo to deal with spread mines. I also use 2 tl rax for marus which i dont micro and use for tanking.
can you plz post a replay?
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On September 04 2013 17:29 Thezzy wrote:
What is good way to push forward against a siege line in a TvT where both sides go Marine/Tank?
I often come across my opponent's siege line and have more Vikings but how do I push ahead?
Especially if he's still on 2 bases I've found that drops often get shut down by Vikings or Turrets.
I could try expanding more but I think that makes me more vulnerable to drops.
If you have air control you can also go Banshee with Cloak or eventually Battlecruisers. Slowly chip away where he is weak and micro back from his marines as you slowly leapfrog your tanks.. I like to add in Sky Terran to my Mech in the late game.
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On September 04 2013 15:21 jarod wrote:
Can anyone tell me or link me how to beat Scarllet stype TvZ. 4 queens or more.. I have trouble with this lately since a lot of zergs I faced play this style.. my scouting is denied... my aggression in mid game when i move out is denied... my drops are denied.. since they are not that strong in 10 min mark..
What i face is lot of queens with creepsrepad and with defensive spore crawlers at the 3rd base. Wall at natural.. This almost denies all my pressure.. I play bio with some hellion presure like 6 into moving out when my first 2 medivacs are out while taking the 3rd. My hellions are deflected... my drops are also and queens can heal themselves a really long time on a straight fight until the zerlings overwhelm me.
From here some zerg go directly to ultralisk... which is really safe for them to defend with this style.. this is what i feel
What other people have said regarding Queen positioning is good. I will add that if you are opening Reaper FE, you should go up to 2 Reapers and 6 Hellions, which if he doesn't build and position Zerglings AND Queens perfectly, you have an excellent chance to deny his third for a VERY long time, because you either need Roaches or a lot of Zerglings with Queen support to take care of that many anti-light units which can kite for a long time.
For instance, contain his front, watch for an attempt to take the third, and start attacking the third as SOON as he tries to plant it. He either has to bring all 4 Queens towards the third and hope you haven't denied creep so much that you can kill the Hatch before they get there or try to fight the Reaper/Hellion force off creep and waste Transfuses trying to push off the units. Meantime, you should be getting a third, upgrades, and preparing for a Medivac/Mine moveout to back up the Reapers and Hellions.
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Does anyone have some type of trick to TvP? Or maybe some good all in (maybe the 14 minute scv pull?) I'm just getting destroyed past 3 bases even if I deny the 3rd base for a decent amount of time
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Canada8159 Posts
Hey guys,
I was wondering how you have your hotkeys set up. Currently I have:
1. Command centers
2. Barracks
3. Main army
4. Specialty units
5. Natural command center
6. Factories
7. Starports
8-10 unused
My camera locations are F1-F5, and I've rebound idle worker to insert. Currently my select army is hotkeyless, I just click it in game.
I was thinking of changing all upgrades and unit production keys to A,S,D,F,G,T hotkeys as they are all the defaults right now.
So what do you guys think? Would it be better to have the army hotkeys grouped up instead of having them dispersed and same for the production? Should I add more hotkeys for my army and if so where?
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On September 04 2013 23:58 Chaggi wrote:
Does anyone have some type of trick to TvP? Or maybe some good all in (maybe the 14 minute scv pull?) I'm just getting destroyed past 3 bases even if I deny the 3rd base for a decent amount of time
I am using Inno's CC-First build from IMBABuilds for 3 days.
My winrate currently is 50% compared to 40% last season.
Two things:
1. It's okay if they scout you. Actually its more than ok.
2. They gonna see it, and they would try to punish you. But you are terran, you are smart, you throw 2 bunkers. You scout no expansion, and blink\4gate incoming, you stop it easily. They try dts, but you already got 2 turrets, they see it. They try to attack with their failed cheese, but no it's not working. You push out with your big army with 2 to 4 medivacs. You know they have photon charge, so you boost into their base with medivacs and quickly get out. Now they don't have energy. You push, they make some zealots for you to earn free xp. They cry, you cry, everybody cries. They don't write gg, but you won, you was better. YOU ARE TERRAN
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On September 05 2013 00:23 Jer99 wrote:
Hey guys,
I was wondering how you have your hotkeys set up. Currently I have:
1. Command centers
2. Barracks
3. Main army
4. Specialty units
5. Natural command center
6. Factories
7. Starports
8-10 unused
My camera locations are F1-F5, and I've rebound idle worker to insert. Currently my select army is hotkeyless, I just click it in game.
I was thinking of changing all upgrades and unit production keys to A,S,D,F,G,T hotkeys as they are all the defaults right now.
So what do you guys think? Would it be better to have the army hotkeys grouped up instead of having them dispersed and same for the production? Should I add more hotkeys for my army and if so where?
Personally I use
1 vikings/tanks/mines
2 Main army
3 Ghost
4CC
5RAX
6 factory
7 Starport
I've been working to incorporate the camera hotkeys - I always set them up but forget using them. I'm also going to start putting my extra CCs on 8-9-0
@ chaggi:
The scv pull for sure is the strongest all in as far as I know. Only works vs Colo-play as far as I know. I haven't lost when doing it yet, pull after you've gotten some vikings against their colo. You must hit some time before he gets HT. Put all scvs on your ghost hotkey and make sure they engage first as meatshield against zealots.
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I think in general ladder has gotten tougher lol I think there is alot of people that quit SC2 WOL and are now coming back to SC 2 HOTS that's just my opinion I have nothing to back up this claim just the fact that this is what I did recently and I've had alot of my Friends do the same recently so its kind of shifted the Ladder
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I think Blizzard has also been shrinking leagues / demoting lots of people, ~1300-1600pt masters are now mostly in diamond.
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On September 05 2013 04:21 Pursuit_ wrote:I think Blizzard has also been shrinking leagues / demoting lots of people, ~1300-1600pt masters are now mostly in diamond.
Hm, that actually makes some sense =)
I was master last season, and diamond this season. After an 8-18 record i left my league and got platinum. But even here i'm strungeling from time to time against other platinums i meet.
But atleast i now know that it isn't all that my fault, thanks
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Hmm, i was having this conversation with a fellow ladder terran today too.
In Wol i was master league. In Hots, though ive only been playing it for around a month, have yet to break back into master league (hovering around mid-high diamond). I check a lot of my opponents and it appears many of them were masters at one point or another, maybe the upper leagues are condensing...
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EPT
