EPTDo you think they are viable safe option to go or do you think they are allins ?
If they are ok why are they so unpopular ?
[!] The Pro Zerg Strategy Q/A - Page 9
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yanzi
2 Posts
Do you think they are viable safe option to go or do you think they are allins ? If they are ok why are they so unpopular ? | ||
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ZedraC
South Africa109 Posts
HOTS, dealing with voids early to mid game. The other day I lost horribly trying to engage a army with voids in them. I think I had more than enough hydras but must have done something wrong. I see they asked us not to post replays, thus the edit. Anyway, I engaged a Protoss ball with about 10 voids in it. I had 27 hydras and 14 roaches, he killed every last unit before i managed to kill one void. I do not understand how that was even possible. So the question: What is your advice in engaging a Protoss ball as Zerg that has got majority voids in it? | ||
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SnowShow
1 Post
Before I start, I just wanted to say thanks for answer my question and we all appreciate it. I'm a mid-diamond Zerg. But recently I have been scratching my head to find the underlying reasoning for gas timings. Here is what I got so far for ZvT: - we get double evo and 3rd hatch then 2nd and 3rd gas. This is because we can time out the upgrades as soon as the evo chambers finish and we have enough economy to support it. But I feel like there's much more under the gas timings. What is the ratio of mineral drones compared to the gas drones? Any basic gas timings you guys can give out and explain to us? Any basic concepts that you may offer? Thanks a bunch! | ||
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TheMooseHeed
United Kingdom535 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:44 SnowShow wrote: Hey guys, Before I start, I just wanted to say thanks for answer my question and we all appreciate it. I'm a mid-diamond Zerg. But recently I have been scratching my head to find the underlying reasoning for gas timings. Here is what I got so far for ZvT: - we get double evo and 3rd hatch then 2nd and 3rd gas. This is because we can time out the upgrades as soon as the evo chambers finish and we have enough economy to support it. But I feel like there's much more under the gas timings. What is the ratio of mineral drones compared to the gas drones? Any basic gas timings you guys can give out and explain to us? Any basic concepts that you may offer? Thanks a bunch! I think these questions are a little vague. I mean 1. It depends on what strategy you're doing 2. Gas timings are kinda reactive to what your opponent is doing and what you are aiming to do and 3. Basic concepts for what? Playing zerg in general or basic concepts in relation to gas taking? Not trying to be mean just saying | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 15 2013 01:57 yanzi wrote: What do you think about ling heavy plays in ZvZ with getting +1 carapace or even +1/+1 before spire ? Do you think they are viable safe option to go or do you think they are allins ? If they are ok why are they so unpopular ? Ling heavy play whether it's +1 carpace or 1/1 is sort of an all in because you do have to do damage. A thing you have to remember is your lair tech is really late. If you don't do damage and he holds perfectly while teching to mutalisks you are going to be behind in tech and economy which is never good. They are actually pretty popular just not standard because there are some vulnerabilities. | ||
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Incand
143 Posts
On May 18 2013 07:55 blade55555 wrote: Ling heavy play whether it's +1 carpace or 1/1 is sort of an all in because you do have to do damage. A thing you have to remember is your lair tech is really late. If you don't do damage and he holds perfectly while teching to mutalisks you are going to be behind in tech and economy which is never good. They are actually pretty popular just not standard because there are some vulnerabilities. Hi blade. Me and some other people over in the normal zerg help me thread were wondering on how you defend against this. You say it's sort of all-in but every time I face 1/1 lings I well just lose. I can't really get my third of and even if my mutas can defend somewhat i can't move out while he is free to expand. How do you react to this? do you get 1/1 yourself? When do you take a third? banelings? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:50 Incand wrote: Hi blade. Me and some other people over in the normal zerg help me thread were wondering on how you defend against this. You say it's sort of all-in but every time I face 1/1 lings I well just lose. I can't really get my third of and even if my mutas can defend somewhat i can't move out while he is free to expand. How do you react to this? do you get 1/1 yourself? When do you take a third? banelings? This really depends. If you scout them doing 1/1 and he doesn't have a baneling nest just do a ling/bane all in and you win. You can also just do a ling/bane all in anyway once you see it coming and try to kill him before. The method I do is I get +1 melee and just rely on ling + banes while waiting for mutalisks. The +1 melee is so that I can kill lings in 1 hit with banelings which makes defending the 1/1 defense a lot easier. You can do double upgrades, but I go mutalisks still so I prefer just getting +1 melee. You can also do roach/ling/bane as well which is a pretty hard counter. If you can scout it early enough and you do a reactive roach/ling/bane all in you win unless he scouts it and makes a bunch of spines. | ||
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Incand
143 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:52 blade55555 wrote: The method I do is I get +1 melee and just rely on ling + banes while waiting for mutalisks. The +1 melee is so that I can kill lings in 1 hit with banelings which makes defending the 1/1 defense a lot easier. You can do double upgrades, but I go mutalisks still so I prefer just getting +1 melee. Do you have any replays showing this style? I know you uploaded a replay pack in the past  Maybe one of your nice youtube videos? And thanks for taking the time answering questions, much appreciated. You already answered a question of mine earlier in this thread so seems time to show it's appreciated:D | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On May 15 2013 21:48 ZedraC wrote: Hi, Thank you very much for helping us, I for one appreciate it. HOTS, dealing with voids early to mid game. The other day I lost horribly trying to engage a army with voids in them. I think I had more than enough hydras but must have done something wrong. I see they asked us not to post replays, thus the edit. Anyway, I engaged a Protoss ball with about 10 voids in it. I had 27 hydras and 14 roaches, he killed every last unit before i managed to kill one void. I do not understand how that was even possible. So the question: What is your advice in engaging a Protoss ball as Zerg that has got majority voids in it? Did he open up FFE? Or gate expand? IF he has 10 Voids it sounds closer to late game? There are timing windows where you can do serious damage to the toss before he has 10 void. But if you don't, and need to kill an army like that, You need a few infesters to keep the voids at bay. Voids clump up, so you can pin down half of the voids usually, so your hydra can own the ones not fungled. OR. if you have several vipers. You can pull half of the voids into the middle of your hydra army. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On May 15 2013 21:48 ZedraC wrote: Hi, Thank you very much for helping us, I for one appreciate it. HOTS, dealing with voids early to mid game. The other day I lost horribly trying to engage a army with voids in them. I think I had more than enough hydras but must have done something wrong. I see they asked us not to post replays, thus the edit. Anyway, I engaged a Protoss ball with about 10 voids in it. I had 27 hydras and 14 roaches, he killed every last unit before i managed to kill one void. I do not understand how that was even possible. So the question: What is your advice in engaging a Protoss ball as Zerg that has got majority voids in it? Heya, I played a game vs a toss who just went mass voidray and then added HT. Although I made a few mistakes, I think I dealt with it pretty well (Mid-high master zerg). I could upload the replay if you would like to see it - just let me know. | ||
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Theilo
Germany26 Posts
I play Starcraft II since 2011 (Zerg) and after 2-3 seasons i kinda stabilized myself in high master after all my games. I played about 70gms and lost about 55 of them! I feel grandmasters are just a lot better than masters overall. I don't know how to get this far... What do you guys think is the biggest difference between any gm and a master player? What makes you guys grandmaster and me a master player? I would appreciate an answer <3 | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/3257158 It's a ZvT where my Terran opponent is going for a Thor/Tank/Hellbat/Raven Composition and I can't even think about what beats it. Now, I'm completely aware I was outplayed as I should be ( my opponent here is a past GM player, and I'm anything but ) but I felt that I held the early aggression well and took a 4th a bit late but not hugely so. Thing is that once I saw he's composition I was sure I can't break his 3rd/4th and was too scared to move out, and I was also really unsure as to what I should even build in this case. My greatest mistake was not scouting he was moving out on 18:00 and basically losing my 4th for free but I don't think I could have held it even if scouted. I did punish his army after losing the base but was it too late by then? Please have a look at the game and I would appreciate any suggestion on what I could have done better and whats the right composition against what he did. Thanks. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 18 2013 11:10 Incand wrote: Do you have any replays showing this style? I know you uploaded a replay pack in the past Maybe one of your nice youtube videos? And thanks for taking the time answering questions, much appreciated. You already answered a question of mine earlier in this thread so seems time to show it's appreciated:D Um I would have to do some digging because it's mainly a popular NA strategy (from what I have seen anyway I don't face it that much on kr). I well make sure to save my next few wins vs it and probably do a video over it hehe | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
A good Zerg (probably true for other races) would want to have a sort of cycle in how they do different things. For example, early-mid game Zerg will do something like this in their "cycle". 1. Inject 2. Use larvae (drones or units depending on circumstance) 3. Spread Creep 5. Make 2 or 3 Overlords 6. Scout and think 7. Act accordingly to step 6 (expand/pressure/upgrade/tech w/e?) 8. Back to step 1 (step 2 depends on step 6). Something like a mid-game TvZ where drops can happen: + Show Spoiler + 1. Inject 1.5. Watch map 2. Use larvae (drones or units depending on circumstance) 2.5. Watch map 3. Spread Creep 3.5. Watch map 4. Make 2 or 3 Overlords 4.5. Watch map 5. Spread overlords 5.5. Watch map 6. Scout and think 6.5. Watch map 7. Act accordingly to step 6 (expand/pressure/upgrade/tech w/e?) 7.5. Watch map 8. Back to step 1 (step 2 depends on step 6). 8.5. Watch map Maybe insert another inject step or another spend larvae step in between steps 5 and 6 or something? Not sure if steps 1 to 8 can be done in less than 45s. I don't know anything. ._. So, do pro players think like this or something else entirely? | ||
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Incand
143 Posts
On May 19 2013 15:45 blade55555 wrote: Um I would have to do some digging because it's mainly a popular NA strategy (from what I have seen anyway I don't face it that much on kr). I well make sure to save my next few wins vs it and probably do a video over it hehe Would be very appreciated Since the spore buff I've run into it a couple of times on both eu & na ladder and it's annoying Lowko also did a video about how to execute the strategy a while back so now we need a video on how to counter it^^ | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:38 ymir233 wrote: Why are zergs at the pro level so conservative with their muta base harass ZvT/ZvP? Are the risks of bouncing from base to base with 20-30 mutas while macroing up really that bad? I can answer zvt but I don't know what you are talking about in being conservative with muta zvp as I see zergs being super aggressive with them. zvt the reason they are passive is widow mines as well as you want them to deal with drops. If you are harassing the terran and killing a turret the terran can start dropping while mutalisks are out of position which is really hard to deal with without mutalisks. The threat of running into widow mines + terran drops are the reason why zergs aren't too aggressive with mutalisks in zvt. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
On May 23 2013 04:50 blade55555 wrote: I can answer zvt but I don't know what you are talking about in being conservative with muta zvp as I see zergs being super aggressive with them. zvt the reason they are passive is widow mines as well as you want them to deal with drops. If you are harassing the terran and killing a turret the terran can start dropping while mutalisks are out of position which is really hard to deal with without mutalisks. The threat of running into widow mines + terran drops are the reason why zergs aren't too aggressive with mutalisks in zvt. Yea I guess the dual pronged threat in ZvT would prevent that...but even in ZvP, I see mutas killing 3-5 probes in the main, then move down to the natural where they kill another 3-5 probes, then general scouting/inactivity for 1-2 game minutes. I guess I'm still used to the doggedness of BW mutas where it was "kill 10+ SCVs with 8-12 mutas or bust" mentality, but I'm not sure why mutas can't be multitasked more to kill at least 10-20 probes. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 23 2013 13:36 ymir233 wrote: Yea I guess the dual pronged threat in ZvT would prevent that...but even in ZvP, I see mutas killing 3-5 probes in the main, then move down to the natural where they kill another 3-5 probes, then general scouting/inactivity for 1-2 game minutes. I guess I'm still used to the doggedness of BW mutas where it was "kill 10+ SCVs with 8-12 mutas or bust" mentality, but I'm not sure why mutas can't be multitasked more to kill at least 10-20 probes. I see mutas kill that many probes all the time. Rarely vs terran you'll get many scv's because of missile turrets already being up but idk I see lots of aggression zvp with mutalisks I just wonder if you aren't watching enough zvp who do muta for it maybe? . But you do have to still be careful you don't want to go inside the toss main then have 40 blink stalkers blink under your mutas because that = many dead muta which you don't want. | ||
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PhoenixA
Australia12 Posts
Is this a good or a bad thing? and how do i fix it if its bad? | ||
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