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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On March 03 2013 22:29 StarscreamG1 wrote: The skytoss has a lot of weaknesses early and mid game, it can be exploit. Void rays and tempest aren't an all around unit like infestor. Which isn't an all-around unit anymore. Yeah... | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On March 03 2013 22:29 StarscreamG1 wrote: That's why you hide behind cannons just like infestors did behind spines.The skytoss has a lot of weaknesses early and mid game, it can be exploit. Void rays and tempest aren't an all around unit like infestor. | ||
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mantequilla
Turkey779 Posts
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ZzKaelzZ
51 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:48 mantequilla wrote: Forgive my ignorance but doesn't streaming roaches and lings endlessly early-mid game work like before? Have you heard of the mothership core yet? | ||
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uLysSeS1
Germany210 Posts
mothership core offers nothing vs roaches, it's the new voidray ability that enables you to kill roaches before they destroy your base. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On March 04 2013 02:45 uLysSeS1 wrote: mothership core offers nothing vs roaches, it's the new voidray ability that enables you to kill roaches before they destroy your base. time warp and photon overcharge would like to have a word with you  | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On March 04 2013 02:45 uLysSeS1 wrote: mothership core offers nothing vs roaches, it's the new voidray ability that enables you to kill roaches before they destroy your base. i would love some theorycraft so il just throw it there : what if protoss makes like 4 cannons in a spot where he can defend main base and 2 more bases + he throws near cannons a nexus . 400 minerals not such a big deal when you go air . you eighter drump all minerals in warp prism zealot harass or cannons . then i ask what if he adds a nexus with cannons :> i dont think zerg can break this . | ||
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uLysSeS1
Germany210 Posts
On March 04 2013 02:55 Mavvie wrote: time warp and photon overcharge would like to have a word with you asdf, that timewarp change from oracle to msc still makes so little sense to me that my brain tries to ignore that fact  timewarp is pretty good vs roaches of course (although i still dont think overcharge does a lot) | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
On March 03 2013 22:29 StarscreamG1 wrote: The skytoss has a lot of weaknesses early and mid game, it can be exploit. Void rays and tempest aren't an all around unit like infestor. Actually voidrays are exactly what an all round air unit is O.O The mothership core for scouting purposes and for the Air to Ground vs single queens (with a zeal or stalker help) as well as the overcharge on nexus to defend allins gives makes ZvP harder for zerg in HOTS. Muta being stronger but phoenix getting 1 extra range may balance each other out New swarm hosts gives protoss an allin they should be worried about Vipers make collosus+stalker less favorable lategame possibly as roach+hydra+viper does decent against collosus stalker Infestors are relatively the same with +1 range on fungal but projectile cast imo Ultras are stronger vs zealots Creep spread is nerfed cuz the tumor has to travel for ~2 seconds before rebuilding as it spreads. This makes creep spread slower in HOTS. New voidray is sick good vs litterally everything when combined with storm. Hydras? blanket storm makes them worthless once protoss gets enough gas to get it. Vipers die to feedback before they can abduct anything and they cost more gas than templar. Corruptors do well vs everything except for voidrays which demolish them. Storm+voidrays makes it even more 1 sided. Ultras are better vs zealots but are very weak to voidrays and weak when attacking into buildings (cannon/pylon walls). As the protoss wants to max out before attacking if they ever try to attack at all. mothership overcharge+mothership AtG makes allins or runbys vs skytoss more difficult to pull off in HOTS than in WOL. Now you can get away with fewer cannons than before. Skytoss playstyle just gets a million voidrays, a few tempest and 4-10 templar for storm then camps behind a ton of cannons while inching forward with tempest. Nothing zerg can do to cost effectively stop that IMHO. | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
HOTS isn't even out yet and Z is crying already. If Z's are having trouble it's because they are bad any everything but macro. Time to learn how to actually play, omg. Skytoss will be gone in 3 months. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 04 2013 04:51 lorestarcraft wrote: Tempets are really low DPS, Storms kille interceptors, Vipers can blinding cloud and pull, Corruptors are Corruptors... HOTS isn't even out yet and Z is crying already. If Z's are having trouble it's because they are bad any everything but macro. Time to learn how to actually play, omg. Skytoss will be gone in 3 months. haha I love when people like you say stupid things like that when most protosses (will pro's) agree that it's over powered (MC has stated that any protoss who loses a pvz after 20 minutes might as well quit sc2). Also if sky toss is gone in 3 months it will be because blizzard nerfed it. Zerg has hydra/swarmhost/ultra which is the best chance you have at killing it, but the sky toss composition is still to powerful. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On March 04 2013 04:51 lorestarcraft wrote: Tempets are really low DPS, Storms kille interceptors, Vipers can blinding cloud and pull, Corruptors are Corruptors... HOTS isn't even out yet and Z is crying already. If Z's are having trouble it's because they are bad any everything but macro. Time to learn how to actually play, omg. Skytoss will be gone in 3 months. your post implies that zergs have high templar and protoss don't storms and voidrays demolish corruptors storms demolish hydras feedback nullifies vipers tempests don't need high DPS, they do infinite free damage because no unit can ever attack them. not saying it's unbeatable, but pretty much all I've heard from pros and forum members of all skill levels and races is that it's a little too strong. also, I like your balance whine attitude. All zergs are actually terrible at the game and only beat you in WoL because of infestors and broodlords, right? edit: I think blade explained it better than me. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Creep spread is nerfed cuz the tumor has to travel for ~2 seconds before rebuilding as it spreads. This makes creep spread slower in HOTS. It's more like a buff. You can cancel tumor if there is enemy nearby, when in WOL it will be instakilled with 1 shot Creep Tumor scouting trick. Heart of the Swarm expansion introduced one nice cosmetical upgrade to Creep Tumors. Instead instant tumor spawn, you can see snake-animation, which lasts 3 ingame seconds. During this time you can cancel it. But the trick is about small range scouting around future placement for Creep Tumors. Even if it's not placed, you still will be able to see around at 3,5 range. It means that you can do some scouting at the edge of your creep zone by placing tumors and cancelling them during 3 ingame seconds. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iKFSazq.png) | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On March 04 2013 04:51 lorestarcraft wrote: Tempets are really low DPS, Storms kille interceptors, Vipers can blinding cloud and pull, Corruptors are Corruptors... HOTS isn't even out yet and Z is crying already. If Z's are having trouble it's because they are bad any everything but macro. Time to learn how to actually play, omg. Skytoss will be gone in 3 months. Nice trolling post, it worked quite well. OT: the nerfs gonna come, i guess enjoy the next month to the fullest. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On March 04 2013 04:13 TheGreenMachine wrote: Infestors are relatively the same with +1 range on fungal but projectile cast imo Except Infestors don't do bonus to armored anymore, which is most Protoss units. | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
Infestors are relatively the same with +1 range on fungal but projectile cast imo The projectile is too slow to catch the faster units The damage is too low to affect the heavier unit Infestor are complete garbage and shouldnt ever be made | ||
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xPrimuSx
92 Posts
On March 04 2013 09:14 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Nice trolling post, it worked quite well. OT: the nerfs gonna come, i guess enjoy the next month to the fullest. Can we stop talking about nerfs and focus on buffs instead? The Corruptor has been aching for some kind of rework or buff to make it a more capable unit like its siblings the Viking and Phoenix. I think bringing back some of the Corruptors Alpha abilities would neatly fit in for this. Move NP from the Infestor to the Corruptor, but modify it so that the affected units are rendered immobile, like the Alpha Corruptor Corruption abilitiy (if Zerg want to move them, just use Vipers). Since the Infestor is now down a spell I think that at least warrants giving ITs back their upgrades. Even better, split Fungal into 2 abilities (1 slow that gains the +damage from the Corruptor's original Corruption and 1 damage spell). | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On March 04 2013 10:34 xPrimuSx wrote: Can we stop talking about nerfs and focus on buffs instead? The Corruptor has been aching for some kind of rework or buff to make it a more capable unit like its siblings the Viking and Phoenix. I think bringing back some of the Corruptors Alpha abilities would neatly fit in for this. Move NP from the Infestor to the Corruptor, but modify it so that the affected units are rendered immobile, like the Alpha Corruptor Corruption abilitiy (if Zerg want to move them, just use Vipers). Since the Infestor is now down a spell I think that at least warrants giving ITs back their upgrades. Even better, split Fungal into 2 abilities (1 slow that gains the +damage from the Corruptor's original Corruption and 1 damage spell). Nice, constructive post! + Show Spoiler + i guess we have to wait for lotv -__- It would be awesome if they could experiment a little bit in that direction. But i guess Blizz is afraid to change the game too much, if only there was some kind of sandbox environment to test such changes without confusing the current player base. IMO using a dedicated server with only a small population could be a nice approach. They can give this setup even a unique, cool name like "Beta Test". lol | ||
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uh-oh
Hong Kong135 Posts
The key does not lie in beating the composition itself, but exploiting how much time/resources is needed to make it work. I feel like instead of working towards a perfect composition to beat skytoss, zergs should figure out specific timings to scout/pressure the protoss and prevent the protoss fleet from achieving 3-3 upgrades and 200 supply. | ||
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
Since it seems very difficult to touch a FFE now that Mscore is in game ,maybe zerg can exploit the weakness of the third while protoss is establishing it. maybe you could deny 3rd with a lot of roaches back and forth just sniping the nexus and go back and abuse the lack of mobility of voidray. Somebody have already tried to sacrifice roach to deny indefinitevly the 3rd? Is it worth it? | ||
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