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On January 18 2013 04:52 LonelyClock wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 04:01 Papulatus wrote:
I feel like Zerg is just unplayable right now in HotS.
ZvP is unwinnable if the protoss is half competent and knows how to build void rays. I just had a game where the opponent was on 4 base and I was on 8 base and he won easy.
ZvT is unwinnable if terran half knows what he's doing. Widow mines shut down any attack at all early game and widow mines used correct make mutas useless. With the new medivac speed and the inability to use mutas, this match up is impossible.
ZvZ is completely stale with the only possible viable option muta v. muta.
I'm really really starting to lose hope in Blizzard, especially when DB goes and makes jokes about how his stalker army lost to a bunch of void rays. This VR issue is so clear and Blizzard has been silent on it. I think people are too quick to criticize what blizzard is doing. Some things just take time to develop. Maybe if player x does y build, then z build can kill it. At the moment there are not enough consistent builds to be able to determine things. Each player is kinda doing his/her own thing and that is why sometimes it is hard to adjust. Personally in ZvP i go ling/hydra (some roaches) if they open stargate and pressure with that and get a spire behind it. If they over prepare for the spire by making loads of pheonix then I just continue on with ling/hydra and maybe add some corrupters and transition into late game. However if they go robo or open robo then I like going mutas. Again this is how I play and what works for me might now work for you but currently I have roughly 65~70% winrate vs Protoss at GM level. Against Terran I have had much success with ling/bane/muta into ultra/infestor/viper/bane. I think mutas are very useful to stop and more importantly discourage drop play. If facing widow mines, getting ovie speed and using a speed overlord with a pack of mutas is helpful (ie. run in a muta to tank the widow shot, then kill it with the rest of the mutas while sending the injured muta home until it regens). Speed overlords are also useful since it takes 2 widow mines (150/50) which is 4 supply worth to take out a no supply (100/0) unit. Sending in a group of speed ovies ahead of your army will help tank the widow mine shots. Late game I believe zerg is at an advantage since ultras are much better. ZvZ is very versatile I think nowadays. Most people have trouble defending mass muta which is why they tend to go mutas themselves, however it is not impossible to hold. Also +1 ling infestors are strong currently. With games I have played it seems that it is possible to play ZvZ in 3 ways. Old roach/infestor/hydra, ling/infestor/ultra, and mass muta. This seems to give more flexibility to the match up where in my opinion roach>ling>muta>roach. By greater than I just mean that with the games I have played and seen that the person that counters the other persons build is slightly ahead or has an easier time. This could also make scouting more important and seeing clues with what their composition in the mid and late game will be. Obviously this is all my opinion so if any of you disagree then obviously you are eligible to have your own opinion on things. However I think that we as a community are too quick to criticize some things. If you could travel back in time to early WoL and play somebody that was slightly better then you, you would still probably win since your understanding of the game is greater, and that's what I think the greatest problem in HotS is. It is too short of time to get used to how to play with patches coming every 2 weeks or so and with each player having their own style some builds that might be terrible in 2 years time will beat you now since we do not know how to react properly.
Thanks for the post. Those are very helpful suggestions, I never thought of using speed overlords to clear widow mines. If these strategies become standard in HotS, I will be much happier with HotS than WoL as a zerg.
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How exactly does Reccall work?
I select my Core, R, select unit (only one?!), select nexus ?
I tried to click the nexus on minimap but either i misclick or it takes forever 
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On January 22 2013 18:54 WeedRa wrote:How exactly does Reccall work? I select my Core, R, select unit (only one?!), select nexus ? I tried to click the nexus on minimap but either i misclick or it takes forever
Yeah it works like that I think. I know toss can pick which nexus but no idea how they do it I just know they can do it  .
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Hello I need some advice. I just meet someone in ZvZ instead of mass Muta he mix in some corruptor and it's quite annoying to kill him. The map is Could Kingdom and it's quite small and he got third earlier than me so it's hard for me to find a good angle to attack
So what should I do in that case?
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So this is against Skytoss I destroy'd his 3rd twice with Hydra/Roach/Corrupter.
No idea how I lost
So yeah here's the replay feel free to tell me what I did wrong.
(Let him get a 2nd base? Sarcasm)
http://drop.sc/297648
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On January 22 2013 23:18 BlueKatz wrote:
Hello I need some advice. I just meet someone in ZvZ instead of mass Muta he mix in some corruptor and it's quite annoying to kill him. The map is Could Kingdom and it's quite small and he got third earlier than me so it's hard for me to find a good angle to attack
So what should I do in that case?
abuse his lack of mobility
also you should have been trying to kill the third
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On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help?
not really
ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units
ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage
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On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage
Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby
Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer?
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On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help?
Zvp is hard you have to try and kill them before they get critical sky toss up. If they get sky toss up you lose unfortunately not much you can do about it if they get it up.
For zvt vs mech you should make a spore crawler and move it so that you can kill the mines or get a third at least if he has a widow mine at the third base.
Mech is actually not that hard to beat all you need to do is once you hit lair - get infestation pit - start hive asap as soon as hive finishes get vipers immediately. You will use roach/hydra/ling to hold off any mech timings (there shouldn't be if he is doing widow mines aggressively early in the game, most mech timings hit later and you should have vipers out + energy for blinding cloud by the time they attack).
I rarely lose vs mech and this is what I do every time I face mech. I do add in ultralisks as well after initial vipers.
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On January 25 2013 05:56 raybasto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer?
Yes I think roaches are the way to go, roach hydra in the mid game, play aggressive and expand a lot, then add Vipers and Ultras on Hive. No attack upgrades on ultras don't matter, they do tons of damage either way and you can get them for the super lategame. Mix in banes against heavy bio with good upgrades to survive the mid game.
Against Bio or bio tank ling/bling/muta into ultras is super good now I think. Don't know about roach into muta against mech, didn't try yet.
Just my thoughts from diamond level games and Idra's stream :D.
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On January 25 2013 05:56 raybasto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer?
if they have widow mines then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper (hydras thankfully outrange the mines) if there going bio/tank and have some mines then best thing you can do is to use lings/overlord to bait out the mines and make sure you kill the mines, if there not going mech they dont have the factory power to keep producing mines
id say 4 queen is still the best opening get a fast-ish evo chamber and put a spine at your front and he wont be able to easily sneak in widow mines and when they do have an overlrod eat the shot, burrow a spore near it and kill it (overlrods can tank 2 shots and widow mines reload ridic slow)
im starting to experiment with jsut opening 8~ roachs and just sending them to pressure makes him less likely to want to put pressure back and if they do something like hellion/banshee into 3 CC you can pretty much kill them there
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On January 25 2013 13:30 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 05:56 raybasto wrote:On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer? if they have widow mines then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper (hydras thankfully outrange the mines) if there going bio/tank and have some mines then best thing you can do is to use lings/overlord to bait out the mines and make sure you kill the mines, if there not going mech they dont have the factory power to keep producing mines id say 4 queen is still the best opening get a fast-ish evo chamber and put a spine at your front and he wont be able to easily sneak in widow mines and when they do have an overlrod eat the shot, burrow a spore near it and kill it (overlrods can tank 2 shots and widow mines reload ridic slow) im starting to experiment with jsut opening 8~ roachs and just sending them to pressure makes him less likely to want to put pressure back and if they do something like hellion/banshee into 3 CC you can pretty much kill them there
I just want to state something you said that is incorrect. Bio + widow mines is actually really powerful and very viable. Widow mines does not mean mech at all. I am seeing more and more terrans (although really only a select few are using them good) going widow mine + bio.
It is very powerful and can be a good replacement for tanks (at least for now). It's hard to trigger it with a ling or 2 cause their bio kills the lings before the mine can activate. So when you engage you are almost forced to be hit by the mines which means as a zerg you are going to need to split army before engaging so you don't take to much splash damage.
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On January 25 2013 13:34 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 13:30 Forikorder wrote:On January 25 2013 05:56 raybasto wrote:On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer? if they have widow mines then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper (hydras thankfully outrange the mines) if there going bio/tank and have some mines then best thing you can do is to use lings/overlord to bait out the mines and make sure you kill the mines, if there not going mech they dont have the factory power to keep producing mines id say 4 queen is still the best opening get a fast-ish evo chamber and put a spine at your front and he wont be able to easily sneak in widow mines and when they do have an overlrod eat the shot, burrow a spore near it and kill it (overlrods can tank 2 shots and widow mines reload ridic slow) im starting to experiment with jsut opening 8~ roachs and just sending them to pressure makes him less likely to want to put pressure back and if they do something like hellion/banshee into 3 CC you can pretty much kill them there I just want to state something you said that is incorrect. Bio + widow mines is actually really powerful and very viable. Widow mines does not mean mech at all. I am seeing more and more terrans (although really only a select few are using them good) going widow mine + bio. It is very powerful and can be a good replacement for tanks (at least for now). It's hard to trigger it with a ling or 2 cause their bio kills the lings before the mine can activate. So when you engage you are almost forced to be hit by the mines which means as a zerg you are going to need to split army before engaging so you don't take to much splash damage.
i think i remember a terran doing that once on IdrAs stream, are widow mines really an effective replacement of siege tanks?
seems like you can fly a few dummy overlords in with your army, youll take some of the forward mines hits on your lings but the marines wont autotarget the OLs down before the widow mines attack them
how i see it is run in with your ling army while flying overlords above so the marines are busy engaging the zergligns and the OLs can soak mines
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On January 25 2013 13:39 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 13:34 blade55555 wrote:On January 25 2013 13:30 Forikorder wrote:On January 25 2013 05:56 raybasto wrote:On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer? if they have widow mines then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper (hydras thankfully outrange the mines) if there going bio/tank and have some mines then best thing you can do is to use lings/overlord to bait out the mines and make sure you kill the mines, if there not going mech they dont have the factory power to keep producing mines id say 4 queen is still the best opening get a fast-ish evo chamber and put a spine at your front and he wont be able to easily sneak in widow mines and when they do have an overlrod eat the shot, burrow a spore near it and kill it (overlrods can tank 2 shots and widow mines reload ridic slow) im starting to experiment with jsut opening 8~ roachs and just sending them to pressure makes him less likely to want to put pressure back and if they do something like hellion/banshee into 3 CC you can pretty much kill them there I just want to state something you said that is incorrect. Bio + widow mines is actually really powerful and very viable. Widow mines does not mean mech at all. I am seeing more and more terrans (although really only a select few are using them good) going widow mine + bio. It is very powerful and can be a good replacement for tanks (at least for now). It's hard to trigger it with a ling or 2 cause their bio kills the lings before the mine can activate. So when you engage you are almost forced to be hit by the mines which means as a zerg you are going to need to split army before engaging so you don't take to much splash damage. i think i remember a terran doing that once on IdrAs stream, are widow mines really an effective replacement of siege tanks? seems like you can fly a few dummy overlords in with your army, youll take some of the forward mines hits on your lings but the marines wont autotarget the OLs down before the widow mines attack them how i see it is run in with your ling army while flying overlords above so the marines are busy engaging the zergligns and the OLs can soak mines
Well splash damage would still hit lings still. Overlords going over might help buffer damage but then you have to realize you better be remaking overlords as throwing away 5 or so overlords everytime to try and get rid of 10 mine detonations is expensive that is 500 minerals.
I imagine that is going to be good in theory, but even then it's still strong even if you can get some of the mines to hit overlords.
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On January 25 2013 13:49 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 13:39 Forikorder wrote:On January 25 2013 13:34 blade55555 wrote:On January 25 2013 13:30 Forikorder wrote:On January 25 2013 05:56 raybasto wrote:On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer? if they have widow mines then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper (hydras thankfully outrange the mines) if there going bio/tank and have some mines then best thing you can do is to use lings/overlord to bait out the mines and make sure you kill the mines, if there not going mech they dont have the factory power to keep producing mines id say 4 queen is still the best opening get a fast-ish evo chamber and put a spine at your front and he wont be able to easily sneak in widow mines and when they do have an overlrod eat the shot, burrow a spore near it and kill it (overlrods can tank 2 shots and widow mines reload ridic slow) im starting to experiment with jsut opening 8~ roachs and just sending them to pressure makes him less likely to want to put pressure back and if they do something like hellion/banshee into 3 CC you can pretty much kill them there I just want to state something you said that is incorrect. Bio + widow mines is actually really powerful and very viable. Widow mines does not mean mech at all. I am seeing more and more terrans (although really only a select few are using them good) going widow mine + bio. It is very powerful and can be a good replacement for tanks (at least for now). It's hard to trigger it with a ling or 2 cause their bio kills the lings before the mine can activate. So when you engage you are almost forced to be hit by the mines which means as a zerg you are going to need to split army before engaging so you don't take to much splash damage. i think i remember a terran doing that once on IdrAs stream, are widow mines really an effective replacement of siege tanks? seems like you can fly a few dummy overlords in with your army, youll take some of the forward mines hits on your lings but the marines wont autotarget the OLs down before the widow mines attack them how i see it is run in with your ling army while flying overlords above so the marines are busy engaging the zergligns and the OLs can soak mines Well splash damage would still hit lings still. Overlords going over might help buffer damage but then you have to realize you better be remaking overlords as throwing away 5 or so overlords everytime to try and get rid of 10 mine detonations is expensive that is 500 minerals. I imagine that is going to be good in theory, but even then it's still strong even if you can get some of the mines to hit overlords.
wait if they ahve no siege tanks cant you jsut 10 range fungal them to death?
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On January 25 2013 13:50 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 13:49 blade55555 wrote:On January 25 2013 13:39 Forikorder wrote:On January 25 2013 13:34 blade55555 wrote:On January 25 2013 13:30 Forikorder wrote:On January 25 2013 05:56 raybasto wrote:On January 23 2013 15:18 Forikorder wrote:On January 23 2013 15:02 IronyDK wrote:
I havent won a single ZvP/T the last 3 days except against bio. Protoss players just seem to turtle then 1a and especially on certain maps it's really hard for me to find anywhere to attack. And lategame, they just have a million voidrays with some hightemplars and colossus or carriers, any amount of corrupters just dies to it, and hydras get owned by storms really hard.
vs terran I just find it hard to get a 3rd if they open with agressive widow mines that just contains me for way too long, and if their follow up is a mech timing I'm going to be DOWN on bases AND supply and just get owned by their timing. And since they have widow mines with them roaches also die like flies so it's really hard to even engage the timing without some hive tech units, OR a supply advantage.
Any help? not really ZvP the best you can do is stephano style aggression with hydras and jsut try to keep him on 3 bases at least and not making stargate units ZvT widow mines are so hard to deal with since even with detection we have no choice but to face tank the damage Is it better to go Roach/Ling/Infestor just because of the threat of Widow Mines then? I've been having trouble against this as well. Usually I just try defend everything and try to rush Ultras and kill them that way but if I don't kill them with Ultras, it gets a little sketchy. Widow mines deflect runbys and its hard to get the Terran to give up their position without any sort of runby Another question regarding ZvT: What's the safest opening now? I used to go 4 Queens double gas at 36, 1/1 Lings and then Lair. Take Third right after you Lair. The thing is there are so many potent openings that Terrans have now a days (Hellbats, Hellbats drop, Hellion Banshee, and Widow Mine opening) that its hard to safety tech and take a third. Are Roaches the answer? if they have widow mines then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper (hydras thankfully outrange the mines) if there going bio/tank and have some mines then best thing you can do is to use lings/overlord to bait out the mines and make sure you kill the mines, if there not going mech they dont have the factory power to keep producing mines id say 4 queen is still the best opening get a fast-ish evo chamber and put a spine at your front and he wont be able to easily sneak in widow mines and when they do have an overlrod eat the shot, burrow a spore near it and kill it (overlrods can tank 2 shots and widow mines reload ridic slow) im starting to experiment with jsut opening 8~ roachs and just sending them to pressure makes him less likely to want to put pressure back and if they do something like hellion/banshee into 3 CC you can pretty much kill them there I just want to state something you said that is incorrect. Bio + widow mines is actually really powerful and very viable. Widow mines does not mean mech at all. I am seeing more and more terrans (although really only a select few are using them good) going widow mine + bio. It is very powerful and can be a good replacement for tanks (at least for now). It's hard to trigger it with a ling or 2 cause their bio kills the lings before the mine can activate. So when you engage you are almost forced to be hit by the mines which means as a zerg you are going to need to split army before engaging so you don't take to much splash damage. i think i remember a terran doing that once on IdrAs stream, are widow mines really an effective replacement of siege tanks? seems like you can fly a few dummy overlords in with your army, youll take some of the forward mines hits on your lings but the marines wont autotarget the OLs down before the widow mines attack them how i see it is run in with your ling army while flying overlords above so the marines are busy engaging the zergligns and the OLs can soak mines Well splash damage would still hit lings still. Overlords going over might help buffer damage but then you have to realize you better be remaking overlords as throwing away 5 or so overlords everytime to try and get rid of 10 mine detonations is expensive that is 500 minerals. I imagine that is going to be good in theory, but even then it's still strong even if you can get some of the mines to hit overlords. wait if they ahve no siege tanks cant you jsut 10 range fungal them to death?
Yeah you can fungal, but you still have to be careful when moving in with infestors or pop goes the infestor when a widow mine hits. I am not saying bio + widow mines is OP, it is counterable and everything, but it's strong as well at least at higher levels of play. At lower levels bio + widow mine I am not sure how good/bad it is, but for example watch thorzain do his widow mine + bio play. It's really strong ^^.
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On January 28 2013 15:20 IronyDK wrote:
How am I supposed to beat a critical mass of tempest with a few archons and rest is chargelots? they kill everything before it gets in range. 6bases vs 3, and I can't kill him because whenever I move close to his base his tempest destroy everything. Eventually he just 1a's into my 36 corrupters, with his 13 tempest and 2 archons. 9 tempest and 2archons remain after. splitting my corrupters didnt do anything,
sounds like roach/hydra would jsut shit all over that
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EPT
