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On December 28 2012 23:09 everdrone wrote:
how can zerg beat reapers + mines?
terran just opens with 1 rax reaper + factory and 2nd gas, then he adds 2 more rax, making speed for reapers and +2 CC
so he have like 8-10 speed reapers and some mines, and zerg must build 3-4 roaches per base and 1 spine, or he will lose tons of workers, cuz reapers are really fast + they have heal, but when you build 8 early roaches and don't attack with them, you already economically behind
and finally mines don't let you take 3rd, cuz you can't move out of natural, so there is no way to allin him, and mutas also doesn't work, because if you will go mutas, you should skip roaches and then reapers will kill a lot of workers, and mines can counter muta really easy
Its easier said then done but you could try to go for some 2 base muta with a lot of queens(6-8 i guess). Queens do very well against that push, especially with transfuse, and you can also use them for creep spread. Muta would punish this really hard, mines dont do well against them. You just need to scout the front with an overseer and either snipe or if you dont have enough mutas you fly around them.
I think the same should work with 4-6 Queens and 2-4 roaches and a faster third instead of fast lair. You really need to have good overlord spread for map vision to not lose tons of drones, so its always very tricky to deal with. The sooner you go for three base, the easier you missposition your few units
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Sentry Immortal All-In. Dumber and more powerful than ever. How do you beat it now?
Before i'd do a 7min macro hatch, make many many lings and force forcefield waste at his base. Although it seems now no matter what I do i end up loosing, again. Lings? herpaderp more zealots. Roaches? Not enough to even force anything at his base at that time.
Is it still the same counter as in WoL, or something completely diffrent
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On December 29 2012 05:54 tehcaekftw wrote:
Sentry Immortal All-In. Dumber and more powerful than ever. How do you beat it now?
Before i'd do a 7min macro hatch, make many many lings and force forcefield waste at his base. Although it seems now no matter what I do i end up loosing, again. Lings? herpaderp more zealots. Roaches? Not enough to even force anything at his base at that time.
Is it still the same counter as in WoL, or something completely diffrent
Sentry immortal all in is actually easier to beat in hots then wol. Make swarmhosts with roach/ling support and your golden. I haven't lost to immortal all in yet cause everytime i see it coming I make swarmhosts and beat it easy peasy lemon squeezy.
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How many, and when to get Lair and such? Do you just burrow them at your ramp or something? I could imagine protoss would just go kill your Third and then..
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Russian Federation81 Posts
Why would you use swarm hosts.. If you identify immortal allin, get lair before ling speed, then get hydra den and range upgrade asap. Then hydraling it to the easiest win ever.
Speaking of the devil, has anyone figured a legit way to use swarm hosts yet?
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On December 29 2012 06:20 tehcaekftw wrote:
How many, and when to get Lair and such? Do you just burrow them at your ramp or something? I could imagine protoss would just go kill your Third and then..
Just make as many as possible, and your third should be close so if he keeps trying to jump around you just go to the base burrow - repeat - etc. He'll have to waste FF as well as again it's never a good idea to trade units for free units.
On December 29 2012 06:28 Atthasit wrote:
Why would you use swarm hosts.. If you identify immortal allin, get lair before ling speed, then get hydra den and range upgrade asap. Then hydraling it to the easiest win ever.
Speaking of the devil, has anyone figured a legit way to use swarm hosts yet?
Even going hydra/ling immortal/sentry can still beat it if they use FF's good. Swarmhosts I have never lost to an immortal all in using swarmhosts. Then after you hold it you can go counter aggression and pretty much win right there (although you can also with hydra/ling if you hold with it).
Also swarmhosts can be pretty good zvp, swarmhost/corruptor is actually pretty strong, but you probably won't win the game it will just be a contain while you tech and expand. Think lurker contain in bw if you ever played that.
I think swarmhosts have potential to be decent in zvz, but I need more testing in that department vs good players, I rarely lose when i go muta - swarmhost zvz if they go infestor first, but I am not playing to many pro zergs so it's hard to say.
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When do you tech to Lair, and how many gasses do you get? What about evo chambers?
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On December 29 2012 07:26 tehcaekftw wrote:
When do you tech to Lair, and how many gasses do you get? What about evo chambers?
Normal time for lair 7-7:30, you will want 4 gases, 1 evo.
I would have to look at a rep to know for sure (I haven't faced immortal all in, in a long time) but those timings should be correct.
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7 minute lair sounds pretty late to me if you want to have any good amount of swarm hosts out..
I'd really appreciate a replay, though.
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Shouldn't be to late um you can look here
http://www.mediafire.com/?225xggjm33ify9z
It has all my hots replays from beginning of beta to december 20'th. 234 reps, I don't feel like looking through them all to try and find an immortal all in as I can't remember the last time I played vs one, early in hots I faced it and I have faced it a few times past 2 months but can't remember when or anything sorry xD.
I can tell you the maps to look for.
Daybreak and Akilon wastes (the desert 2 player map). I know I got immo sentry all ind there.
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Is there any way for a late game zerg to beat a max supply Toss Carrier/Void/HT army?
If there is not, (as I've heard that the only way is to not let them get that) what exactly is the timing to attack protoss when they are going for that and what unit comp should I have?
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blade, if the toss camps on 3 bases and gets lets say collosi, tempest, voids, oracles, stalker they will just crush ur contain.... so what do u do to prevent this? Do u pull back ur swarm hosts when u see him pushing out, and what should be ur later transition to defeat sky toss death ball??
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On December 29 2012 22:14 Siggeh wrote:
blade, if the toss camps on 3 bases and gets lets say collosi, tempest, voids, oracles, stalker they will just crush ur contain.... so what do u do to prevent this? Do u pull back ur swarm hosts when u see him pushing out, and what should be ur later transition to defeat sky toss death ball??
but that tactic is to beat sentry immortal allin
protoss dosnt go tempest/void/oracle/stalker/collosus when they do a sentry immortal allin
Obviously your transition is going to be somewhere like attack him and win with whatever you have while maxing out on roachhydra
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On December 29 2012 21:33 Disastorm wrote:
Is there any way for a late game zerg to beat a max supply Toss Carrier/Void/HT army?
If there is not, (as I've heard that the only way is to not let them get that) what exactly is the timing to attack protoss when they are going for that and what unit comp should I have?
If the toss controls correctly no there isn't. You as a zerg need to be aggressive and prevent giving him the time necessary to get that composition.
On December 29 2012 22:14 Siggeh wrote:
blade, if the toss camps on 3 bases and gets lets say collosi, tempest, voids, oracles, stalker they will just crush ur contain.... so what do u do to prevent this? Do u pull back ur swarm hosts when u see him pushing out, and what should be ur later transition to defeat sky toss death ball??
Well like I said you should be teching, expanding while the contain happens. You won't be able to kill him (if he plays smart) with the swarmhosts, but you should be able to contain him for a decent amount of time. Then once he starts breaking out you should be remaxing on another composition aka like ultra/hydra if you go fast hive like I do and stuff.
But I don't normally play swarmhosts because I find them not the best and roach/hydra into fast hive into ultra/hydra/ling/bane/viper to be stronger imo.
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Russian Federation81 Posts
http://drop.sc/289251?pass=9f54b8fc-e830-4acc-a87c-21bdd9a2be54
Standard colossus stalker sentry deathball + a lot of tempest. What's the proper way to play against this? Up until 21st minute I was convinced he only had a few tempest to support his ball, snipe my vipers and such, but even if I knew he was this tempest heavy I'm still unsure what to do. Unit tester doesn't work for some reason so I really don't know how corruptors fare against them, like how many I would need. Help please 
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****EDIT****
I didn't see my answer was already asked.
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hey, i'm sorry, but does the skytoss really works in pvz on master+ level? maybe i'm executing it badly, but i die to roach/hydra pushes every time or at least i fall really behind.
pvz was always my favourite matchup but i'm out of ideas in hots.
could you upload some pvz replays from high level play?
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wrong topic, but it is regarding your race at least :p
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I've been vs. someone who opened Phoenixes, then started making voidrays or carriers or whatever other air units, i just pushed them with hydra/ling, maybe roaches too and pretty much win the game at that point.
I just dont think you can OPEN air only, you're going to die to anything that can shoot up in the early midgame.
A lategame transition would probably work though, heard carrier tempest or something should be quite strong.
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+ Show Spoiler + tehcaekftw Denmark. December 29 2012 22:27. Posts 117 PM Profile Quote #
On December 29 2012 22:14 Siggeh wrote:
blade, if the toss camps on 3 bases and gets lets say collosi, tempest, voids, oracles, stalker they will just crush ur contain.... so what do u do to prevent this? Do u pull back ur swarm hosts when u see him pushing out, and what should be ur later transition to defeat sky toss death ball??
but that tactic is to beat sentry immortal allin
protoss dosnt go tempest/void/oracle/stalker/collosus when they do a sentry immortal allin
Obviously your transition is going to be somewhere like attack him and win with whatever you have while maxing out on roachhydra
I was asking a different question about a different scenario... immortal sentry allin is pretty much the easiest thing to play against ZvP in Hots. Skytoss is not, and it seems like all protosses transition into skytoss or some kind of hybrid skytoss composition when moving into the late game which I have huuge problems dealing with.
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On December 31 2012 05:51 tehcaekftw wrote:
I've been vs. someone who opened Phoenixes, then started making voidrays or carriers or whatever other air units, i just pushed them with hydra/ling, maybe roaches too and pretty much win the game at that point.
I just dont think you can OPEN air only, you're going to die to anything that can shoot up in the early midgame.
A lategame transition would probably work though, heard carrier tempest or something should be quite strong.
Yeah they can't go air all game. They need to get colossi and a ground army and when it hits late game they can start transitioning into pure air.
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EPT
