EPT[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…
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Mythodea
Mexico4 Posts
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derive
France31 Posts
For example as zerg you sometimes have to take 100 gas (speed) then take drone off, and put them back later. You could also take a third base mostly for mineral if you go for a heavy roach strat. Learning how much gas you need is actually a really useful thing to know. Also the "saturation speed" meter from ggtracker only track mineral saturation so no worries about that  . | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
level 3 we are asked to saturate both geysers at all three bases nope, miscommunication. You can get gas at Step 3, but that doesn't mean you have to. The box of possibilities becomes larger , but that doesn't mean you use every tool in the toolbox every/all game/situation. | ||
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Mythodea
Mexico4 Posts
"Try to get 66 workers on all other Steps (3 base saturation)" That means,16 on minerals + 6 on gas in every base; I guess that's where the confusion comes from. But yeah, actually learning how much gas I need makes much more sense. Maybe JaKaTaK can add a little note to the spreadsheet to clarify this. Cheers! | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Mythodea
Mexico4 Posts
1. How does GGTracker account for Spending Skill once you're maxed out on food. I mean I have to start buidling CC like they're Supply Depots to keep the money down lol but it still gets way too high :/ EDIT: Ok, we have a problem. I just played an amazing game when I was literally spending all my minerals down to 0, however, my gas sat at like 2,700 for more than half of the game. When I upload to GGTracker, I get Gold rank with 2036 unspent resources. Someone said GGTracker didn't account for gas so I decided to test it, and sadly, it does. I played a custom game where my money never got past 150 minerals (except for when expanding) and I stockpiled as much gas as I could. I managed to get around 3,000 gas by the end of the game, and then GGTracker gave me Bronze SK with 1691 unspent resources. This is the replay so you can see for yourself: Replay And this are the GGTracker stats for that game: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5572208 So yeah, it does seem GGTracker takes gas into account as well. That just makes things a lot more complicated lol thoughts? 2. To "Pass" a game, do I need to achieve my Saturation Speed goal league for all three bases? Just two would do? Just the first? Thanks and awesome work here, I'm loving the training! :D | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On November 06 2014 14:38 Mythodea wrote:Someone said GGTracker didn't account for gas so I decided to test it, and sadly, it does. That's a misunderstanding I guess. GGtracker does account for gas, when it comes to the spending skill. It does not for the base saturation speed. | ||
Rebite
Canada3 Posts
1. Should I be trying to have 4 bases mining with just zerglings allowed or am I making it overly hard to spend my money for myself? 2. Is it normal to be getting bronze spending skill for 5-10 games then getting 1-2 games with master level spending skill? 3. Should I practicing stuff like hot keying my army or scouting more while doing the staircase? Thank you! | ||
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sjTaylor
5 Posts
Would it be better to play (at least)one game of each race every day, or only play as one race on any given day? Maybe there's something in-between that is more effective, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say. | ||
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ThunderChild.EU
France5 Posts
@Rebite: 1. I guess you mean 4 fully saturated bases? Then no, keep at 3 bases with saturation. 4 x 16 workers eats up too much supply, so your army will be too small. Build macro hatches, try to be effective with Inject Drones and most important: Play aggressive harassment and counter-attacks with your zerglings. 2. Yes. You're experiencing a quantum leap in your learn performance, it's quite normal to get such a "whow"-effect.3. Absolutely! On November 06 2014 14:38 Mythodea wrote:[...] So yeah, it does seem GGTracker takes gas into account as well. That just makes things a lot more complicated lol thoughts? 2. To "Pass" a game, do I need to achieve my Saturation Speed goal league for all three bases? Just two would do? Just the first? Mythodea, there's no "problem" with GGtracker accounting for gas income. In fact that's an important feature. I've struggled quite a bit at first myself, but it's quite easy to manage once you get the hang of it. Zerg players have known this principle for a long time: Only take gas when you need it and as long as you need it. Many Zerg players take 100 gas with three workers and then stop mining. All you need to do is keep an eye on your gas income and take workers out of gas production once you can't spend it any more. For example: I play Protoss. I have one Assimilator with 3 Probes to get Warpgate Tech and MS Core, then I move on to a Forge and Upgrades, plus Twilight Council for Zealot Charge. After that I take a second gas, but only with 2 workers in each. On that income, I research all Forge Upgrades (Weapons / Armor / Shields). Once I have enough gas for the last upgrade, I take the workers off gas. Long story short: The Spending Skill encourages you to plan and manage your Gas income while you're playing. 2: Your goal is to get 3 bases in a safe way and saturate them quickly - it's not about rushing to 3 bases, but plan them, have enough army and workers to defend and use them. If the game ends before you have 3 bases, then of course you only need to meet the benchmark for 2 bases. But this should happen because your opponent Allins or gets clobbered by an early push. In other words: Try to play for 3 bases, don't allin on 1 or 2 bases. And then just do what comes naturally. | ||
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sjTaylor
5 Posts
By improve independently do you mean you think I should only focus on one race at a time? If so do you think I should change on a daily basis, or use some other decision process? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On November 06 2014 14:38 Mythodea wrote: Two quick questions: 1. How does GGTracker account for Spending Skill once you're maxed out on food. I mean I have to start buidling CC like they're Supply Depots to keep the money down lol but it still gets way too high :/ EDIT: Ok, we have a problem. I just played an amazing game when I was literally spending all my minerals down to 0, however, my gas sat at like 2,700 for more than half of the game. When I upload to GGTracker, I get Gold rank with 2036 unspent resources. Someone said GGTracker didn't account for gas so I decided to test it, and sadly, it does. I played a custom game where my money never got past 150 minerals (except for when expanding) and I stockpiled as much gas as I could. I managed to get around 3,000 gas by the end of the game, and then GGTracker gave me Bronze SK with 1691 unspent resources. This is the replay so you can see for yourself: Replay And this are the GGTracker stats for that game: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5572208 So yeah, it does seem GGTracker takes gas into account as well. That just makes things a lot more complicated lol thoughts? 2. To "Pass" a game, do I need to achieve my Saturation Speed goal league for all three bases? Just two would do? Just the first? Thanks and awesome work here, I'm loving the training! :D So sorry if I misspoke. Spending Skill is about all of Spending (gas and minerals) while Saturation Speed is just about Minerals. Saturation Speed is very clunky right now and I'm not happy with it at all. However, I have other projects that need to take priority for the time being. Feel free to skip on the Saturation Speed if it is not feeling right. We should have a Saturation speed replacement that uses either worker count or income, however GGTracker is rarely updated/worked on aside from maintenance and bug fixing so we'll either move to a new site that will work with me or catch GGTracker with some time to make changes. On November 10 2014 10:12 Rebite wrote: Just some questions. 1. Should I be trying to have 4 bases mining with just zerglings allowed or am I making it overly hard to spend my money for myself? 2. Is it normal to be getting bronze spending skill for 5-10 games then getting 1-2 games with master level spending skill? 3. Should I practicing stuff like hot keying my army or scouting more while doing the staircase? Thank you! 1. go for 3 bases 2. yes, you will start off pretty inconsistent and improve with time. There is a chance its a bug but you'd have to look a the replays more in depth 3. Here are some ideas of things to work on while training in TheStaircase: The short answer is yes On November 10 2014 12:55 sjTaylor wrote: I'm looking to play random. Does anyone know what the most effective way to do this would be in conjunction with the staircase? Would it be better to play (at least)one game of each race every day, or only play as one race on any given day? Maybe there's something in-between that is more effective, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say. Whatever fits your style. I like to do 1 race per day that way I can push for 4/5 to pass to the next step, but if you like the variety do that. For quality of practice, decrease variance and increase repetition as much as possible, but don't forget to balance Quality of Practice with Fun GLHF Everyone! JaK | ||
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sjTaylor
5 Posts
My question isn't really about me trying to force myself to do what is most optimal, but rather one about education/learning. Remembering a work of fiction which suggested that one should practice only one sub-discipline on any given day while training is what got me asking the question. I'm curious if anyone know whether or not this approach would actually be more effective for improving in Sc2 given that the sub-disciplines would be the races. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Yes, one sub-discipline per day is more effective (based on my reading/research). | ||
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BenMcLean
United States20 Posts
Then, as soon as I start mining gas again, my spending quotient shoots back down to bronze! Check it out: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5583960 Isn't saving some money to buy a ton of cannons all at once to defend your expansion a reasonable strategy in some situations? | ||
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sjTaylor
5 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/5572977 So probalby has more to do with not making units when you could be, and not gas. Also, if you aren't hitting benchmarks any time you mine gas why are you jumping to step 6? (Immortals, collosi, and stalkers aren't given units for step 3) | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On November 11 2014 17:23 sjTaylor wrote: @Ben: You maxed out around 4k minerals, and 1.1k gas. 4k minerals probably translates roughly to 300 zealot by the time you make the pylons and gateways to get that many by the time you had 4k minerals(didn't really do the math on it). The spending skill was probably bronze since you could have made a lot more units. You could have potentially been maxed out on supply purely with zealots by the time you reached 4k minerals. I've gotten bronze w/ Terran for floating less minerals with similar mineral income. http://ggtracker.com/matches/5572977 So probalby has more to do with not making units when you could be, and not gas. Also, if you aren't hitting benchmarks any time you mine gas why are you jumping to step 6? (Immortals, collosi, and stalkers aren't given units for step 3) 300 zealots seems like a reasonable number to you?  Anyway, your point stands, despite the extra zero. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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sjTaylor
5 Posts
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svinto
Sweden3 Posts
I just started following this with protoss and have a question. I currently get good scores on spending skill, 1st base saturation and 2nd base saturation but not very good on 3rd base saturation. The reason for this is that I simply lose to a drop, roaches push or whatever and dont have time to get my third base up. I need to get to step 2 to be allowed to micro my units to have any chance of defending. Any advice? | ||
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