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Andinel
Profile Joined August 2014
United States7 Posts
August 22 2014 00:32 GMT
#1301
I'm on Step 2 (or Step 3 revised) and mining gas and minerals with Protoss, but other than upgrades and Observers and Warp Prisms, I can't figure out what to do with it. I've been ending up with a lot of extra gas at the end of each game. Any thoughts as to how I should spend my gas?
Andinel
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
August 22 2014 00:34 GMT
#1302
Learn to take only the gas you need. This is a skill that will serve you in standard play as well.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Destrae
Profile Joined August 2014
1 Post
Last Edited: 2014-08-22 18:46:00
August 22 2014 17:38 GMT
#1303
TheStaircase is really amazing. I've spent 40 hours this week working my way through it and when I faced my more experienced friend I managed to win in under eight minutes! If you want to work on your mechanics, this is the way to go.
MoonFan
Profile Joined July 2013
Vietnam55 Posts
September 01 2014 12:32 GMT
#1304
why is it under 8 mins? Just curious
mGGNoRe
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia124 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-04 17:34:32
September 04 2014 13:58 GMT
#1305
Hey I'm doing the zerg staircase and I'm struggling to consistently hit the master level saturation speed (main base only) for Zerg against Terran. My spending skill is GM so I'm not delaying making the drones but somehow I can't seem to hit master level timings on the saturation for my main. Is there a specific build to do to get to 16 drones mining + spawning pool & expo by 3:38?

[EDIT]
After going into custom games and straightening out my initial b/o I've been able to hit the saturation benchmark for the main quite consistently with 14 pool/15 hatch. I'm now moving on to step 2! :D
Bold Elf
Profile Joined August 2014
England6 Posts
September 06 2014 14:41 GMT
#1306
I think GG tracker is slightly off. I just played a game and hit an income of 640 at 4:22 against a terran this became constant about 4:33 at around 680 etc but the site says I hit it at 6 minutes giving me a bronze speed when it should have been gm. the site also states it counts it when you 1st hit 640 income so is something wrong here? another issue I think there is with the saturation speed counter is if you get attacked or harassed et you time is going to be off and that isn't taken into consideration I know you can't really program that in but if your practicing against people its not always going to be X time. Iv got up to stage 3 atm and I am really tempted to skip ahead a bit
E.P.G
mGGNoRe
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia124 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-06 18:13:11
September 06 2014 18:12 GMT
#1307
On September 06 2014 23:41 Bold Elf wrote:
I think GG tracker is slightly off. I just played a game and hit an income of 640 at 4:22 against a terran this became constant about 4:33 at around 680 etc but the site says I hit it at 6 minutes giving me a bronze speed when it should have been gm. the site also states it counts it when you 1st hit 640 income so is something wrong here?


I'm pretty certain that it just counts the workers on each base rather than the actual income you have globally. It always measures the time it takes to get atleast 16 workers mining at a base after it has completed construction. For the 1st base (main) just work out a build order. As zerg I've found you can hit the timings with a variety of openings.

On September 06 2014 23:41 Bold Elf wrote:
another issue I think there is with the saturation speed counter is if you get attacked or harassed et you time is going to be off and that isn't taken into consideration I know you can't really program that in but if your practicing against people its not always going to be X time. Iv got up to stage 3 atm and I am really tempted to skip ahead a bit


I've faced this in a lot of games too and lately I've realised that if I dont care about winning I can usually keep up with the saturation speeds at the master level. The important lesson is to get us to keep paying attention to macro in every situation.
ShadowTrainer
Profile Joined September 2014
1 Post
September 16 2014 01:05 GMT
#1308
I have a question, I just started the game a few days ago and I happened upon this topic. I'm trying to reach at least gold on my Spending Skill as a Zerg and I really have no idea what to spend it on. I'm still on Step 1 and I can get low Platinum on saturation on the first base and low Silver on the second base. I reach 3 bases by about 5 minutes in and I just have too much money piling up once I get the Queens up and running.

With me just producing Zerglings and the minimum workers, I still have a surplus of about 3k-4k around 10 minutes where I start to attack with a Zergling army of about 80 or so. In that timeframe, what could I have spend money on to improve my spending skill? Does this mean just purchasing Spawning Pools and other buildings for the sake of spending?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
September 16 2014 02:22 GMT
#1309
No need to purchase extra spawning pools, but extra hatches are a way to go. Check your larva. 9/10 the issue is you don't have enough larva (lings and drones are both larva heavy). To start you will need extra hatches, but in time you will get better with your injects and will need less and less hatches
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Garsecg
Profile Joined September 2014
United States129 Posts
September 18 2014 16:24 GMT
#1310
It's stunning how well this works. STUNNING. I had a blast last night and just wanted to record a few thoughts here.

Before last night I had never done the staircase. I was skeptical because although I am (and have been) in the top 8 of gold league, I feel like I have an above-average level of understanding of the game. True or not (most likely false hehe), this made me skeptical of the staircase. I mean, before, my general strategy that I practiced was always going roaches, then transitioning into roach/hydra or transitioning into swarmhosts, turtling up a bit, and going for a muta switch.

I want to improve and I'm a deliberate practice, quality-over-quantity kind of guy, so I gave it a try.

I played a few games of creep or die at the highest level and at my best, got halfway across the map. I played a few games with slow lings only... and then I decided I would skip up to the level where you can get gas and ONE other unit. And I started playing game after game with nothing but zerglings and banelings.

Never before has the inadequacy of my play been laid out before me in such a clear way. The most telling example is when I went against a protoss with only ling bane, against colossus, stalker and immortal, and WON. I kept him on two bases with harass and speelings, but as the game went on, I couldn't help but think "I'm so fucked". He had 5 colossus, a few dozen stalkers, and an immortal or two. Turns out that, while that's a good composition... it's not good enough to beat 60 banelings. I mean... I knew mechanics were important in theory, but HOLY SHIT!

The ONLY game I lost out of 5 last night... was against a masters level protoss (somehow got matched up against dragon streaming on NA last night). I felt like I was doing well and I was bummed with my loss, but I was SHOCKED after the game to see that he was masters level. I mean, looking at his stream after, his mechanics are CLEARLY better than mine. And I felt like the game was closer than it would have been had I employed any other strategy.

Practicing is more fun than it's ever been. Losses are easy to shrug off (limited units//practicing) and wins feel more glorious than ever (they are based in a trackable skill improving, not on 'intuition' or other things I would chalk wins up to before).

I'm a complete believer and sharing this with everyone I know who enjoys Starcraft and wants to learn more about it. It really, really helps you UNDERSTAND what is important in the game by having you just do it.

Thank you!
WigFlipper
Profile Joined September 2014
United States1 Post
September 18 2014 17:22 GMT
#1311
I'm finding that it's much easier to hit my benchmarks in step 1 when fighting humans than AI, but that's mostly because the games are much, much shorter (that is, I'm getting cheesed instantly). When I have to juggle my spending for more than 10 minutes, I start losing the race against my saturation. Should I focus on AI games, then?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
September 18 2014 18:17 GMT
#1312
@garsecg
that's awesome! any good games of the slow ling only w/ micro I could use for the next video?

@wigflipper
human opponents are better IMO, but more importantly - do what is most fun for you long term your improvement is greatly affected by your ability to find what way to play the game you enjoy most. So w/e is clever
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
sherifusa1988
Profile Joined August 2014
Egypt6 Posts
September 20 2014 19:10 GMT
#1313
I am on Step 1 Zerg, and I can't seem to get a high spending quotient, I get 3 bases and saturate them master level, but I get a bronze spending skill, I get queens right from the start of each base, and my inject is 80%, and I create with all the larvae I have zerglings to attk the enemy base, so I don't know what to do, it's very frustrating, tried 8 games and still no luck, I tried using macro hatches and in one game I got diamond spending skill, but that was only one game and I had 3 macro bases, any help on how to get my spending skill higher with just 3 bases, even if with a building order, or a replay of a game of successful master spending skill, or better even grandmaster :D....
Thx
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
September 20 2014 20:24 GMT
#1314
more hatches, better injects. You'll get it!
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
sherifusa1988
Profile Joined August 2014
Egypt6 Posts
September 20 2014 21:05 GMT
#1315
more hatches like 6-7?
sherifusa1988
Profile Joined August 2014
Egypt6 Posts
September 20 2014 23:00 GMT
#1316
Does anybody have a master or grandmaster spending skill step 1 zerg replay file or video that he/she would share with me
mGGNoRe
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia124 Posts
September 21 2014 00:44 GMT
#1317
On September 21 2014 08:00 sherifusa1988 wrote:
Does anybody have a master or grandmaster spending skill step 1 zerg replay file or video that he/she would share with me


http://ggtracker.com/matches/5398462

Here is a GM level spending ZvP with only slow lings. It also has Master level Saturation Speed. Hope it helps.
sherifusa1988
Profile Joined August 2014
Egypt6 Posts
September 21 2014 06:05 GMT
#1318
Awesome, thx a lot mGGNoRe, but is it ok to build spine and spore crawlers in zerg step 1?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-21 12:44:40
September 21 2014 12:44 GMT
#1319
more hatches as in the # doesn't matter. Spend your larva, then spend your extra money. Spending fuels everything, to think about how many hatches is backwards. Go from the source
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
AgamemnonSC2
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada254 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-21 16:03:50
September 21 2014 16:01 GMT
#1320
Thanks for the Staircase Jak, I am having a lot of fun. :D

One question: As a Protoss player moving on to Step 4 on the spreadsheet, what unit would you recommend? (not just a question for Jak, like to hear people's choices)

And, to graduate must I use that same unit for all 4 of 5 games? I imagine that would be best.

And if anyone cares, here is my experience with the staircase so far:

Currently I am in platinum league, which is the best I have ever done. I got into plat by using All-in build orders for each match up. So, I am only in plat because of the strong timing attacks, not because of my mechanics/macro. I know my macro is not great.

So, after losing a few games because I have no idea what to do after my build doesn't end the game, I decided to give the staircase a try.

Over the last 3 days, I have been practicing vs. the Ai, and am currently beating the Elite Ai easily with only upgraded zealots (Step 3). Which is really fun. Replay here if anyone wants: http://drop.sc/386375

EDIT: I have NEVER beat the Elite Ai before the staircase. I could only beat the Very Hard if my all-in was perfect.

My spending skill is consistantly GM level and my saturation speed is Masters. My goal is to get into Masters, although I think that is a long way away.

Thanks also to GGTraker for giving us a way to benchmark our Macro. Otherwise, it is so hard to know if your mechanics are good or not.
Co-Founder of SC2 Mistakes
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