• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:43
CET 05:43
KST 13:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1935 users

[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 62 63 64 65 66 78 Next
ObeseZealot
Profile Joined June 2014
United States5 Posts
June 27 2014 16:08 GMT
#1261
Hey Jak,

As Protoss, after TheStaircase would you recommend learning 3-4 standard-safe builds (to defend cheese) as well as 1-3 cheeses? Like, should I learn the four builds on your YT channel and 4gate (I already know 4gate)?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 27 2014 16:40 GMT
#1262
As protoss I'd say learn a 2 gas core expand for all matchups and just vary the # of workers in gas for w/e you need. Also pick 1 cheese. 2 gate proxy/cannon rush/4 gate are all good options. Remeber the key to improvement it reducing variance and increasing repetition.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
ObeseZealot
Profile Joined June 2014
United States5 Posts
June 28 2014 13:58 GMT
#1263
On JuNe 28 2014 01:40 JaKaTaK wrote:
As Protoss I'd say learn a 2 Gas Core expand for all matchups and just vary the # of workers in Gas for w/e you need. Also pick 1 Cheese. 2 gate prOxy/cannon rush/4 gate are all good options. Remeber the key to improvement it reducing variance and increasing repetition.


I'm sorry but could you give me an example of a 2 Gas Core expand? I'm doing a bunch of research and I can't figure out which build to pick. Thank you.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 28 2014 20:40 GMT
#1264
Any build where you get your gate, then 2 gas, then core then, expand will work fine. You can choose to pressure with the first couple of units that come out of your gateway with the MsC, or not.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
AzhiDahaka
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada4 Posts
July 10 2014 20:40 GMT
#1265
Hi Jak;

I'm planning to learn the StairCase for each race as a basic way to get accustomed to how they play and decide which I plan to stick with. I'm doing Terran right now, and it's a lot of fun. I'm in Plat on step #2 (so basic units+gas for upgrades). TvT and TvP aren't a lot of fun, since I have no way to deal with splash damage once it shows up. TvZ is fun though, good opportunity to work on my splits! I'm pretty sure doing this for Zerg will be super hard to actually win games with until the later steps.

Anyway, thanks for making this available, I appreciate it!
OneBaseKing
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Afghanistan412 Posts
July 16 2014 16:39 GMT
#1266
Hey Jak, I have a question for meeting the benchmarks for the saturation speed. Do the saturation speed 1&2&3 all have to meet the requirements of my goal league in order to make the game as passed? Or is it just one of the saturation speeds
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 16 2014 16:40 GMT
#1267
hey hey, that is correct you have to pass on all of them. If you take 3 bases, you have to be saturating them on time to pass. If you only take 2, you don't need to worry about the 3rd
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
UW_Meatshield
Profile Joined May 2014
6 Posts
July 17 2014 07:50 GMT
#1268
Hey, JakaTak, just wanted to thank you for making these videos. I have actually just introduced 2 friends to SC2, and I was playing games where we raced to 200 drone/queens to get used to the macro process, spending, and How to expo. These challenges are exactly what they're looking for so they can get control of the concepts before the game starts.

I think there's nothing better than getting the basic mechanics down before strategy arrives. Only then can you actually begin to consider strategy. Day9 says it, you've said it, and I've heard about 4 of the pros during their tutoring sessions say it.

Props on you, sir.
OneBaseKing
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Afghanistan412 Posts
July 17 2014 11:43 GMT
#1269
Sorry Jak, but I have also another question. Is TheStaircase viable for a former masters player coming back after a 2 year hiatus? I am currently in Platinum league in the Korean server (NA Low Masters)
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 17 2014 15:56 GMT
#1270
@OneBaseKing
It'll work, but I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time on it. Use your own judgement when to move on to the next step and then get into learning one build for each matchup.

@UW
Glad to help. And I'm especially glad that you're introducing your friends to Starcraft! We need more people like you!!
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Hot_Ice
Profile Joined January 2013
139 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-22 16:45:58
July 22 2014 16:40 GMT
#1271
--- Nuked ---
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 22 2014 18:07 GMT
#1272
Hey hey, that's actually something I am working on! Very much on the back burner for that particular thing, but improving the idea of training in general is how I spend a lot of my time and build orders are very much a part of that.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
arho
Profile Joined July 2014
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-25 11:19:51
July 25 2014 11:05 GMT
#1273
For some reason, after doing Creep or Die, when I completed my placement matches, I got into silver. 24 hours passed since then, now I have the third rank in silver ladder. The only major problem that I have now is "Spending Skill" and APM. It's like I totally forget what I should be doing 10+ mins in, so any recommendations? Anyways, great guide! helped me A LOT.
ZedraC
Profile Joined February 2011
South Africa109 Posts
July 25 2014 11:26 GMT
#1274
For some reason, after doing Creep or Die, when I completed my placement matches, I got into silver. 24 hours passed since then, now I have the third rank in silver ladder. The only major problem that I have now is "Spending Skill" and APM. It's like I totally forget what I should be doing 10+ mins in. Anyways, great guide, helped me a lot.


I find the same on Zerg Step 1. Since Zerglings are SO cheap, spending all that money is a major problem with the little larva you get. Obviously we have to add a bunch of hatches and macro hatches and injecting queens.... I still want to experiment and see how many macro hatches you need on 3 saturated bases.... Think its at least 3 macro hatches, thus 6 in total injecting hatches.
"What am I supposed to build to kill the things that look like giant dung beetles that eventually show up?" - beginner on battlenet forums. LMAO
arho
Profile Joined July 2014
2 Posts
July 25 2014 17:34 GMT
#1275
On July 25 2014 20:26 ZedraC wrote:
I find the same on Zerg Step 1. Since Zerglings are SO cheap, spending all that money is a major problem with the little larva you get. Obviously we have to add a bunch of hatches and macro hatches and injecting queens.... I still want to experiment and see how many macro hatches you need on 3 saturated bases.... Think its at least 3 macro hatches, thus 6 in total injecting hatches.

The main problem is that if you want to have a chance, you need a ton of zerglings and you'll end up with empty second hatch since you need to spam zerglings to make sure he really doesn't get enough time to upgrade and kill you (and he eventually will if he doesn't gg early). You'll also end up with a lot of minerals in bank, which is... bad. Still, I think it's really helpful for starters since he wants you to go slowly increase the things that you should "worry" about, that "Don't look at fights" part is also pretty good, he wants you to not forget that you have a base and the production shouldn't really stop.
DrTrouserPlank
Profile Joined July 2014
United Kingdom1 Post
July 27 2014 10:24 GMT
#1276
I'm really having trouble getting my spending skill to go up much as far a rank goes in step 1 and it's basically for the following reason.

I am improving my spending and managing to be low on minerals a lot of the time; building and saturating new command centers and minimising supply cappage. The problem comes when I hit my supply limit and then my banked minerals skyrockets and throws my average off a lot. For example, at 18min I had about 900 minerals having hit the supply cap a little earlier; at 23 minutes (when the game ended) I had 6500. My collection rate was about 1600/minute.

I am playing against the AI and I usually allow myself to amass a decent force before I send them off, partly so that I'm not rushing the AI and it gg's before I've even started to expand and actually spend enough to get a decent idea of how I'm doing. Maybe I am waiting too long and should send them off earlier to help keep some supply available so that I can continue to spend on units etc.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 27 2014 13:54 GMT
#1277
hey hey DrTrouserPlank!

Just attack earlier, an 23 minute game is well beyond average. To avoid your problem, just attack before you get maxed, or leave the game when you get maxed and make a little challenge for yourself to see the fastest time you can get maxed on each map
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Socup
Profile Joined June 2014
190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-28 10:07:14
July 28 2014 09:39 GMT
#1278
Nevermind, I assume it's a personal choice thing not an actual tracking web browser based business apart from it telling you.

Is it correct to assume that the steps 1-6 after ggtracker and the benchmarks to meet or exceed belong within those steps, such as meeting certain league benchmarks after completing a game of "click attack only on the minimap"?

There's no reason blizzard can't release new units or fixes to a game without creating another costly "expansion" you've already paid 100$ for, unless they want to treadmill the gambler with future promises of "it gets better"
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 28 2014 16:46 GMT
#1279
Can you rephrase?
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Socup
Profile Joined June 2014
190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-29 04:46:33
July 29 2014 04:07 GMT
#1280
I mean like each Step is done and then loaded into Ggtracker, and then you get a badge for spending skill and base saturations that equates to the desired league you want, right?

I've got a question about the base saturation badges, though. ForGG is a GM player, but his base saturation badges are often bronze because gameplay doesn't work like 10 minute no rush. Is it just meant to track how efficiently you can saturate if you have no pressure or timing attack builds going?

On July 27 2014 19:24 DrTrouserPlank wrote:
I'm really having trouble getting my spending skill to go up much as far a rank goes in step 1 and it's basically for the following reason.

I am improving my spending and managing to be low on minerals a lot of the time; building and saturating new command centers and minimising supply cappage. The problem comes when I hit my supply limit and then my banked minerals skyrockets and throws my average off a lot. For example, at 18min I had about 900 minerals having hit the supply cap a little earlier; at 23 minutes (when the game ended) I had 6500. My collection rate was about 1600/minute.

I am playing against the AI and I usually allow myself to amass a decent force before I send them off, partly so that I'm not rushing the AI and it gg's before I've even started to expand and actually spend enough to get a decent idea of how I'm doing. Maybe I am waiting too long and should send them off earlier to help keep some supply available so that I can continue to spend on units etc.



I think it's less about what you get as a badge and more about mechanically learning how to macro well.

But if it were me and I needed the badge I want, I'd hit sooner and get the game over, or I'd build more production buildings, more hatch/nex/CC, more (redundant) supply depots, etc. If the goal is to manage your money after maxing, then you want to start making more stuff so that you're safer from counter attacks (via supply block or lost production buildings/lost CCs, etc), or so that you can remax faster after an army wipe.

It's basically baseline stuff.

I don't know if any of you have played the Armored Core series, but its giant robots that you use about 20 different stats per arm/leg/jetpack/engine/radiator/etc and attempt to "build order" a mech out of. Pretty fun game for a min/max type of person, and basically a system of building to counter specific other builds, etc, like sc2. Anyway, in one of the last PS2 versions, Nine Breaker, they had a massive battery of tests you could run. From Simple Fire Control System selection to target quickly and accurately, to shooting through moving targets or moving while shooting, and then additional layers of complex control and fire behavior.

The point of that system happens to be how pretty much everything is learned "well". You break all of the goals down into specific little blocks, learn that block until you have a thorough skill in it, and then go to the next block. In doing that, you can put it all together in the end to simultaneously perform all the complex actions you need to win.

The Staircase basically seems like this. It's smart, and it's realistic if you want to get better. Pro's play the micro/marine split arcade for a good reason.


Staircase seems like it can also give a good foundation for understanding build orders and why they work (or dont sometimes). When you practice spending money, if you have the wrong facilities to spend your income with, you can float upwards in gas or minerals. A build order is designed to maximize units or tech for a goal, while minimizing excess that is wasted time and economic losses comparable to your opponent who is able to perfectly spend it all.
There's no reason blizzard can't release new units or fixes to a game without creating another costly "expansion" you've already paid 100$ for, unless they want to treadmill the gambler with future promises of "it gets better"
Prev 1 62 63 64 65 66 78 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
ChoboTeamLeague
01:00
S33 Finals FxB vs Chumpions
PiGStarcraft415
Discussion
Replay Cast
23:00
WardiTV Mondays #60
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft415
RuFF_SC2 175
StarCraft: Brood War
Sexy 46
Noble 30
yabsab 20
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever654
NeuroSwarm116
League of Legends
JimRising 746
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv288
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox485
Other Games
summit1g11288
C9.Mang0295
Maynarde136
Trikslyr44
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1270
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 76
• practicex 11
• Adnapsc2 7
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1122
• Lourlo672
• Stunt293
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur131
Other Games
• Scarra1915
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Korean Royale
7h 17m
BSL: GosuLeague
16h 17m
PiGosaur Cup
20h 17m
The PondCast
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
IPSL
5 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.