Yes, but the saturation speed benchmarks are all based on matchup specific data, so the mules are taken into account (in a way). It's certainly not perfect but it's the best we can do for the time being.

Tio

5 Posts

April 30 2014 21:16 GMT

#1222

I just did a couple of games with the first step of the program, where you can only mine minerals, and it was a lot of fun.
In the end I had 8 bases and 52 baracks constantly pumping out balls of marines to a-move across the map. The zerg player had no idea what hit him. After 20 min game time or so there was just nothing that could stop the huge amount of marines walking across the map. It was a lot of fun, I'll be sure to continue with this, as it really shows how strong macro can be. Thanks a lot for the program !

SpaceDoge

1 Post

May 02 2014 16:59 GMT

#1223

Love the staircase
doing step one for terran at the moment did some bot games on harder and have done a few ladder games. even came back after getting hit with a proxy bunker thanks to the power of macro( and a gold base)!
http://ggtracker.com/players/1498461/SpaceDoge there my gg tracker profile, hopefully gonna keep improving and get out of bronze cheese league soon haha
Thanks for coming up with the program

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

May 02 2014 21:29 GMT

#1224

Sounds excellent Tio and SpaceDoge :D

New videos added to the OP:

Ender1887

United States2 Posts

May 07 2014 16:38 GMT

#1225

I just wanted to post and say that I love the work that is put into this and the Core. I am fairly new to playing Starcraft - I've played it before, but I haven't really gotten a chance to play on a consistent basis due to work, school, etc, but I've watched the pro league games and am always entertained by the game as well as the talent and competitiveness of the players. So I picked up the game for the first time in about a year a couple days ago and started playing. I think one thing that really turns new players off of any game is not having an understanding of how to play or how to get better. Having a method like the Staircase that gives players direction is extremely helpful. As someone who always strives to improve in everything they do, this is definitely a motivating factor for me to continue playing. I've played two games on level one so far after practicing hot keys with The Core, and have gotten very good results. Granted, I'm playing against AI because I have no confidence in my game yet, but I was able to hit the top benchmarks in saturation in the first game, then top benchmarks for spending in the second. Undoubtedly, there is still much room for improvement.

Here is my question for the experts, though. While I am just starting and working on Macro, should I be focusing on walling off, or focusing on how many gateways I put down and where I put them? As I said, I've hit high benchmarks in saturation speed and economy, but I am kind of just laying buildings down anywhere my mouse guides me right now.

Thanks for reading and any responses. It may seem insignificant to others, but having a new challenge and people to share it with(none of my friends play) is pretty exciting to me.

Ender1887

United States2 Posts

May 07 2014 16:44 GMT

#1226

On May 01 2014 06:16 Tio wrote:
I just did a couple of games with the first step of the program, where you can only mine minerals, and it was a lot of fun.
In the end I had 8 bases and 52 baracks constantly pumping out balls of marines to a-move across the map. The zerg player had no idea what hit him. After 20 min game time or so there was just nothing that could stop the huge amount of marines walking across the map. It was a lot of fun, I'll be sure to continue with this, as it really shows how strong macro can be. Thanks a lot for the program !

That is awesome and hilarious. The other guy's reaction would be priceless. I would love to see that replay.

Tio

5 Posts

May 08 2014 20:16 GMT

#1227

On May 08 2014 01:44 Ender1887 wrote:

Show nested quote +

That is awesome and hilarious. The other guy's reaction would be priceless. I would love to see that replay.

Yeah it was awesome! He raged pretty hard and wanted a rematch after that haha.
Can't show the replay though because sadly my PC died a few days ago. It'll be a while before I get acces to my profile again.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

May 09 2014 17:03 GMT

#1228

Protoss video is now up! Enjoy:

TedBurtle

Belarus201 Posts

May 10 2014 15:11 GMT

#1229

On May 10 2014 02:03 JaKaTaK wrote:
Protoss video is now up! Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5UAyFJyCvA&feature=share&list=PLiejbQlQAdGmMwrXvgmMwGDvCDsxgZ2wi&index=3

Thx for the video! :D Looking forward for steps 2-3-4-5

Ninjury_J

Canada408 Posts

May 10 2014 15:20 GMT

#1230

For anyone who is interested, Jak is doing an all day stream from 9-5 PST in honor of his birthday. Check it out at twitch.tv/thejakatak

Nott

Peru5 Posts

May 12 2014 03:39 GMT

#1231

@JaKaTaK hey, I was just checking the pdf version of the staircase and in the given units for terran it says I can use medivacs but the online version places medivacs in the battle units. Which one is it?

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

May 12 2014 03:51 GMT

#1232

Thanks, nice catch. PDF is wrong. Spreadsheet is correct.

Nott

Peru5 Posts

May 12 2014 04:34 GMT

#1233

On May 12 2014 12:51 JaKaTaK wrote:
Thanks, nice catch. PDF is wrong. Spreadsheet is correct.

Great, thanks!

Morik

65 Posts

May 16 2014 02:41 GMT

#1234

Hey, question about the rules.

For the steps where you choose one or more battle units: is the recommendation that you stick with that choice for the 4 out of 5 games? Or can you swap each game?

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

May 16 2014 15:25 GMT

#1235

swap as much or as little as you like. Whatever is more fun for you

ZedraC

South Africa109 Posts

May 19 2014 10:51 GMT

#1236

Hi,

Since I started playing Random I thought the perfect place to start is with the Staircase, thus concentrating on macro and not a bunch of build order which confuses the hell out of me for 3 different races..... Even though my progress is slow (since I don't get a lot of time to play) I do see progress, thanks to the staircase method.

I noticed my saturation speed, spending, supply blocks and APM improving over just a few games for every race.

I believe if this Staircase is done correctly, you can only improve and have fun at the same time. What I like about it the most is that I actually play better because I have a clear goal every game and I do not tend to get so nervous like before and that the goal is not to win, but improve.

Thanks for a good idea here. I think any low league and new player can benefit from this.

ZedraC

South Africa109 Posts

May 19 2014 16:10 GMT

#1237

Hi JaKaTaK,

Did I mention before that I love your work?

From your posts and videos I can see you are extremely intelligent and think things through to the DNA strands, I absolutely love it. I like clever people.

Now, since I have kissed your butt shiny, let me get to the point… ;D

(I am serious though: I DO love your work!) I was considering posting this in the Creep or die thread, but think it is more appropriate here.

Reading this thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/449624-mastering-zerg-mechanics-for-high-level-play) it made me think of a few things, but for the purposes of this post I am specifically referring to the “Production cycle” mentioned in there, namely:

Define and master what is commonly referred to as a Production Cycle or an Inject Cycle. This is taking to a full, start-to-finish Zerg breath. An inject cycle takes crucial actions required for macroing effectively and groups them together, to train muscle memory and pace the game. An effective example used by EGJD is:

1. Inject;
2. Queue Overlords x # of hatcheries injected (IE 3 hatcheries injected = 3 overlords);
3. Pre-rally overlord eggs to desired position on mini-map;
4. double-tap dedicated creep queen key and drop tumor;
5. spread nearby tumors;
6. double-tap dedicated scout key and queue up scouting route (can be done with forward lings or main army as well).

Maybe - just maybe - it may be beneficial to add a Step 0.1 (or whatever) to Zerg in the staircase. Thus practicing:

1. building the correct amount of ovies per “production cycle” dependant on step 2 above, and
2. pre rally ovies to certain points
3. scouting…

You are the clever one and have contact with the "creep or die" creator… I am just throwing and idea out there.

Lastly: I have no idea how the “create with mod” thing works, but will it be possible to get a “create with mod: creep or die” option for the new ladder maps?

Thanks a lot kind Sir for just reading this...

AmicusVenti

United States61 Posts

May 30 2014 07:56 GMT

#1238

I've noticed lately that I've been having trouble hitting the Masters benchmark for saturation speed on the first base, even though looking at the replays I don't think I'm failing to produce SCVs at any time nor am I substantially late on calling down the first mule. It seems possible that this is the result of my choice to open with a 15 gas, as I feel confident that if I didn't, my mineral income would climb much higher. That said, I don't think I should be forced to take gasses very late with a program that aims to be as open ended as The Staircase does.

Sometimes I can reach the benchmark for Saturation Speed, and yet will fail with virtually identical execution of the same opener. My guess is that this is all related to how the game calculates mineral income. I conjecture that it just bases the income factor off of how many minerals were collected in the past n seconds, resulting in a fairly volatile readout. Because of this, even of I do the build identically, the income benchmark may be reached much sooner or later depending how the SCV harvesting lines up.

I'll keep playing a few games to see whether I can overcome this. If it still seems I can't, I may ignore the saturation speed benchmark in favor or something more meaningful (e.g. X SCVs at the Y minute marik).

ZedraC

South Africa109 Posts

June 04 2014 17:44 GMT

#1239

Where did the reference sheet disappear to? Am I blind