EPT[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Rebite
Canada3 Posts
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
On December 21 2014 10:28 Rebite wrote: You aren't expected to get gm spending skill with just a hatch for each base right? I need to put down some macro hatches to get a good spending skill. Just wanted to make sure that macro hatches are allowed. I am a diamond player that did the staircase as a way to get rid of some bad habits. You can play however you would like make whatever buildings your heart desires. Your goal is to keep your money low at first as you progress your goal is to either make your units cost effective or keep them alive. If you are a terran doing a 2 racks proxy will be easier to keep your money low than being on 3 base with 48 workers its your path to choose. | ||
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Rebite
Canada3 Posts
On December 22 2014 08:29 reps)squishy wrote: I am a diamond player that did the staircase as a way to get rid of some bad habits. You can play however you would like make whatever buildings your heart desires. Your goal is to keep your money low at first as you progress your goal is to either make your units cost effective or keep them alive. If you are a terran doing a 2 racks proxy will be easier to keep your money low than being on 3 base with 48 workers its your path to choose. All right thanks. I just wanted to make sure that macro hatches were allowed. | ||
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RobotPants
6 Posts
One question though regarding the creep or die map. Is there any decent way to find out where i have not spread creep once almost the entire map is covered? I never have any problem covering 96%, but those last 4% is a rail PITA. | ||
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priestnoob
243 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
 TheCheesecase is postponed until LotV Beta is out. The early game will change so much its not worth putting the effort into things that will soon become obsolete. | ||
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priestnoob
243 Posts
On January 10 2015 11:44 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: Hi TheCheesecase is postponed until LotV Beta is out. The early game will change so much its not worth putting the effort into things that will soon become obsolete.Alright, thanks for the answer | ||
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PaterFrog
Germany17 Posts
I only started the staircase about 4 days ago and haven't even played all that many games with it yet. I can complete step 0 at pro lvl anytime and the first thing I do when I log in is to play step 0 once. Today I've started experimenting around on it, adding things like multiple inject queens and building additional bases. I do that because I noticed that my creep spread in particular sucks in step 1 in comparison to step 0. I'm pretty decent with injects, though I could still do better obviously. The things I have the most trouble with: 1. supply block - at least 3 times a match I manage to get myself supply blocked. I do not spam overlords and then forgot to build more, I just keep at a decent rate, but eventually I forget and can't build a proper army of lings cause of it. 2. spending - this is probably my biggest problem. I just can't keep up with building hatcheries to get enough lings. I thought about getting macro hatches instead of expanding, but is that really a good idea? Shouldn't I instead look to take more mineral lines, even if I can't farm more than 3 without going too high in supply on drones? 3. saturation speed - how do I efficiently spread my larva between lings and drones in such a way, that I have enough drones to get good saturation speed while also not allowing my enemy to build a deathball that just tramples anything I send on the way to my bases? 4. walls - when playing against Terran or Protoss, I always seem to lose too many lings to their wall. Yes, eventually I break through, but by then they'll have had enough time to mass things that just eat lings which they then use to decimate me everywhere while I can't counter them due to not being allowed gas. I've lost 17 of 20 games so far, not counting the placement and unranked games for that. Those 17 games were pretty much in a row. How do I properly improve my spending skill? How do I keep both my enemy pressured early with enough lings while also droning hard enough to get nice saturation speeds? Should I macro-hatch rather than expand? Edit: If I macro hatch, will these count against the saturation meter? Should I build 3 expansions and then macro? | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Also, if you can't spend the minerals, make sure to hit the injects, don't miss OLs and spend your larva asap. That helps a lot in keeping up larvae/minute for your existing hatches. Every second the hatch is uninjected you lose larva, and every second there are 3 or more larvae at the hatch, you also lose larva. So keep both of those at a minimum. | ||
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PaterFrog
Germany17 Posts
Is that also how you increase your saturation speed? I'm currently building drones until 10 supply, at 10 one OL, use the extractor trick to get 11 or even 12 drones while the OL is building and then continue building drones for as long as I can. I try to complete 16 drones before I make a pool or expand to get that saturation speed up. Sometimes that ends up badly cause the enemy has reapers. Essentially, I need help and tips on how to speed up saturation on my first, second and third bases without going too low on army value. Right now I'm not allowed to micro my armies, I can only use attack move on the minimap. To bust through walls, I need to stack a lot of lings (at the very least 50) and then order them in. Is there a more efficient way to get through walls without being allowed to micro, look at battles or build anything but lings? | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
 Otherwise yes, wait until you have a bigger group, and send them all in at once, from several directions if possible. | ||
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PaterFrog
Germany17 Posts
Yeah, I guess I should be able to beat it anyway if I can just lift up my SQ. So, for now I'll quit complaining about tech death balls razing my bases and just practice spending more. What I really need help with though, is how to increase saturation speeds to master levels constantly without going too low on army value. How many drones should I build before I expand? When do I need to pool to catch that timing between them attacking me and me having just the right amount of drones to saturate a second expansion really quick? Should I only expand once I have 24 drones, or the moment I could afford it mineral wise? | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On January 16 2015 22:25 PaterFrog wrote: The 2 base turtle is the standard, I never get anything else at my level (unless they're zerg, then I get nothing but roaches and mutas XD) so I tend to be royally fucked the moment they get their teched deathball going. I end up being unable to break through their wall in those cases, cause they already have units that eat lings stationed there and they get eaten on their way up the ramp... Yeah, I guess I should be able to beat it anyway if I can just lift up my SQ. So, for now I'll quit complaining about tech death balls razing my bases and just practice spending more. What I really need help with though, is how to increase saturation speeds to master levels constantly without going too low on army value. How many drones should I build before I expand? When do I need to pool to catch that timing between them attacking me and me having just the right amount of drones to saturate a second expansion really quick? Should I only expand once I have 24 drones, or the moment I could afford it mineral wise? the standard (gasless) opening would be (numbers are your supply) 9 OL 15 hatchery 16 pool 17 OL then build 2 queens as soon as pool is done. This will be the same time as you exp pops, if you actually built it at 300 (not 350). After that I guess it depends on how much ling/drones you need to go... gasless and mainly drones, I think you can get a third hatch in before the first inject pops. Other poeple will be able to tell you more in detail, as I'm a bit noob. | ||
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PaterFrog
Germany17 Posts
If I were to build two expansions and then plant a macro hatch, does this macro hatch count as the third base on GGTracker Saturation speeds? Or does it only count if it were placed correctly within a mineral line? I tried finding this information in their FAQ, but it wasn't there. | ||
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awol
Australia79 Posts
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PaterFrog
Germany17 Posts
On January 17 2015 23:06 awol wrote: I've been stuck on Zerg 1 for a while. My saturation speed is very good, but my spending is not, it is always Bronze. How am I supposed to keep my spending low when I can only build the very basic units. I'm not sure if i'm doing this right...I don't want to just stay on one base for a long time. Usually I build 15pool 15 hatch. I'm expanding a lot, building a lot of drones, and the money piles up.... For an idea on how to expand properly (supply, number of drones where and how to queue drones after you filled a base, etc.) watch this replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5684082 - keep an eye on PandaBear, Once you have your three expansions up, start building tons and tons and tons of macro hatches, all of them with queens. Don't forget to, if necessary, expand to the next mineral line once your main is done, then natural, etc. At the end of a game I tend to have 1 to 3 mining bases, depending on how diligent I was with keeping track of mineral lines, and upwards of 10 macro hatches. The idea is that 5 mining drones will allow you to build lings endlessly out of one hatch (dunno if inject larva are counted as well there, you might need more workers for those). So if you have one mining base at full saturation (16), you can keep 3 hatcheries going with that. Add more hatcheries for every mining base and then add more if you find you're mining too fast. The secret is not to wait with expanding, the secret is to do more injects and to build more hatcheries. You want as many larvae as possible or you can't spend enough. On the other hand, if you can't expend all the larvae to build more lings, you need more mining bases. | ||
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Jemmie13
United States1 Post
I stumbled upon this thread as I try to learn the game.. I have played about a month, so still getting used to it. I just achieved GM marks for the first time!! I think I was more excited about this than some of the games I win on ladder. No telling how long it will take me to get 4 out of 5 but I had to share. I do think I cheat slightly on the rules, but after just playing normal ladder for a few weeks its habbit to at least want to follow my army around on the map as I a move A couple if things that I do out side of the rules to be fair: 1) I stop at 2 bases after watching a different learning video on this site that had the same basic principles. 2) I go out for an attack at the 10 min mark and win or lose there. I was able to achieve this in a game vs the "Training AI" on Medium. Anyway, here is my game vs AI if anyone is interested in how a messy "GM" passing game looked for me GM Pass | ||
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WSBlizzer
Germany2 Posts
I've been using the Staircase for 12 games now, and finally managed to pass 4/5 of my last games (Platin Benchmarks) with protoss. Now that I feel ready for step 2, I would like to know if anybody recommends some builds for this Step. I would really like to do some early aggression with zealots whilst macroing properly, so I get confident with multitasking, but the problem is I dont know how to. Maybe you do! If you haver any other tips for me, here are my Profiles: GGTracker Battle.net [EU] | ||
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sunsetkid
6 Posts
a little about myself: i'm an old time player from the time of sc(pre bw!). got into sc2 in the beta, finished it and mainly played zerg. got to master league on pure cheese(7 roach speedling all-ins) and stopped playing. now i come back and i find my old build order doesn't work anymore and players are much better at reading all-in builds! i switch race to protoss and cheese to diamond. in-base gates, cannon rushes into dt--you name it, i've done it. but i realise that once my cheese fails, i almost always lose in a macro game. so i find this--and i do think it will improve my macro. imagine my shock when it shows that my spending and base saturation is so many leagues down. i'm now at step 2 vs the AI, and will try the ladder soon. | ||
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