EPThttp://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=401242
and leave any ideas/theories in the comments.
We're trying put together a comprehensive guide on race selection and this data will help us out a lot.
Thanks
[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=401242 and leave any ideas/theories in the comments. We're trying put together a comprehensive guide on race selection and this data will help us out a lot. Thanks | ||
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Ticcie
Netherlands43 Posts
I see in the spreadsheet that for 6.0 that the macro steps are going to be removed, what is the reasoning behind this? Personally I'll keep them in between when the new unit allows them. In the old version the widow mine macro step seemed off, I moved it up to the ghost/raven area, but other than that I liked having them around as a reminder about what is important: Having more stuff. And it also taught base/production/gas ratio's required, so to me there seems to be a lot of value to the steps. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
As always, do what you think is best, if you like the macro steps, keep them. The reason why we're removing them is because TheStaircase was too long. Its pretty much unheard of that it gets completed. I think the macro steps are a bit of a redundancy, because the benchmarks are all in terms of macro anyway. So instead of the system telling someone, "Do only macro, then do only micro" They can begin with basic micro that they are comfortable with and slowly increase the amount of micro. My major reasoning for this is my experience playing on a drumset and playing the piano. Both Drumset and Piano play require multitasking. If I learned one hand perfectly and then the other and then tried to incorporate them together, all at the same tempo, it yielded very good results. The issue in starcraft is that you can't regulate the tempo of your play with a metronome. The more you play, the faster you get. So its very difficult to learn macro, then macro, then put them together while regulating the speed that you are doing it. The other method that was actually better, in my experience than the previous was to start very slowly, playing both at the same time; feeling out how the two pieces fit together. I primarily used this method after my first month or so of training on these instruments as I learned to sight-read better and had the absolute basics of the instrument down (how to hold the stick or press the keys etc). I think that Step 1 for each race, is like me learning the absolute fundamentals of the instrument (race) and after that the 2nd approach (playing both hands, parts, micro/macro, at the same time very slowly to start) is the more efficient method. If it turns out that players are getting stuck in certain areas we may add in some macro steps to the earlier areas in order to make the transition smoother. | ||
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Paddywan
Ireland11 Posts
I notice you have said a few times that there will be some new features out for HOTS is there any timetable on those atm? I'm on EU servers and a lot of stuff seems abit neglected. Only 1 staircase map, creep or die isn't working on EU or AM, alot of the benchmarks have changed in advance of HOTS or are in the process of changing. Do you think it would be better to wait until stuff comes out with/around HOTS or will it be awhile and I should just jump in and figure things out the way they are? I'm not complaining about the state of things, this looks like a really good system and has obviously had a lot of work put into it and requires a lot of effort to maintain. I'm more trying to give an insight into what it's like trying to jump in from my situation as it could be a common one with HOTS around the corner. It could be particularly effective as the system doesn't rely on the normal strategic / build order learning processes which will be all over the place because of HOTS. Having something like this in place and ready would be perfect for returning players and could really increase the popularity of the game and this system. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
You don't need creep or die, or the custom map. I need to be more clear describing that in the new set of videos which I am working on now. All you need is Starcraft 2, and a way to measure your SQ. For now, everything else is self measured. When TheStaircase is on ggtracker.com, everything will be automated as far as benchmarks are concerned to make the system more convenient and to use better benchmarks that only something like ggtracker can do in a reasonable amount of time. Here's a preview of the new OP that I'm working on: + Show Spoiler + Protoss + Show Spoiler + Step 1 - Mine only Minerals. Attack move only. Step 2 - Build only Probes and Zealots. Step 3 - Choose a new unit to unlock. (Click here for Suggested Unit Order) Repeat Step 3 until you have unlocked all units. Terran + Show Spoiler + Step 1 - Mine only Minerals. Attack move only. Step 2 - Build only SCVs and Marines. Step 3 - Choose a new unit to unlock. (Click here for Suggested Unit Order) Repeat Step 3 until you have unlocked all units. Zerg + Show Spoiler + Step 0 - Play “Creep or Die” on the Arcade in TheStaircase mode for your League Goal --or-- Step 0 - Create a custom game with no opponent, build 3 hatcheries, and meet your inject goal while covering the map with creep. Step 1 - Mine only Minerals. Attack move only. Step 2 - Build only Drones Overlords Queens and Zerglings. Step 3 - Choose a new unit to unlock. (Click here for Suggested Unit Order) Repeat Step 3 until you have unlocked all units. the click here's will link to the spreadsheet Hope that helps, I'm working on a rework for TheCore, TheStaircase, and a big article on IEM World Championship right now, so I have a lot on my plate. I would give you a time table, but its too difficult to predict right now. | ||
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Paddywan
Ireland11 Posts
I wonder if including basic timings is something that would help at some point. I mean very basic "its best to expand by x " "scout around 7 minutes" "zerg stay 1 base ahead" and stick modest variance from the norm on the numbers so you aren't really forcing but guiding but perhaps that is something people should research and decide themselves. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Yes, I will definitely be putting together material on the fundamentals of Sc2 to accompany TheStaircase. Especially things like using Control Groups and Camera Hotkeys. It always my intention to guide and not to force. That's a huge design philosophy in TheStaircase and IMO is a part of the reason why it works as well as it does. | ||
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Heafmo
United Kingdom70 Posts
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Coldlogic
United States116 Posts
On March 17 2013 09:11 Heafmo wrote: I don't understand where I get my resource collection rate statistic from, In hots there is only the graph and the resource score. Yea, they removed it with HotS. Instead, go to ggtracker.com and register. Upload your replays and it will determine your spending skill from the replay. | ||
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Ehtele
Norway8 Posts
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KhrisKruel
United States146 Posts
now, with the core and the staircase, this gives me hope I can make it to masters someday. I've been hitting unranked games with this system, and its so satisfying to see my APM and mechanics improve every game. I never thought I could functionally use cameras, macro cycles, and nexus energy while macroing a swarm of zealots and cannons into the enemy base. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
You should be able to use ggtracker and thestaircase for free. What's the problem exactly? @Khris Glad to be of service | ||
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Zebansis
United States6 Posts
Not expensive but some what of a nuisance. On a MORE popular note. While this is my first post in this thread, I have been doing the staircase & TheCore since last Saturday with good results. 3 Days now.... Vs the AI I am up to high level harder vs Ladder, well i just broke into Silver tonight. Its my first time, though I only have 60 games total of multiplayer starcraft. I think I am up to 30 games with TheCore, and am no where near done with the staircase. @Jak, I saw your updates for the staircase, ie less micro managed, and its about what I am doing. Though I am adding units when i can no longer win with just marines. Its nice to just send endless streams of marines or packs of 30 to attack every minute or so. I have had more than a few people be like WTF! Fast attacks and then constant and endless reinforcements works good. Now I just need to figure out how to counter mech. I guess its to add some kind of plane.... I still feel like a total newb, i don't even know whats available. Trying to incorporate more than i already do is to much. none the less I am still moving up the ranks. We shall see how far marines and marauders take me. Against Terran Mech, i get killed Against The big protoss lazer firing thing.... I get wasted. I have looked up the counters as I go, but they are not second nature at this point. Not up to that point in the staircase! Against Zerg, I feel like when they build more than lings, roaches, and Hydras, thats when I go down. Against a grouped army of substantial size and diverse make-up...i lose, though its not really the point now. I mean I am still trying to get the hang of the darn Camera switches. I use them well when i get started but later on in the game I go back to default, which turns out is clicking on the mini map. Fail for something some where I am sure. Thanks again, any feedback appreciated. Flames, well you know what you can do.... | ||
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
On March 19 2013 13:42 Zebansis wrote: @ Jak, GGtracker only allows 25 uploads for free. Then its $5 a month. Not expensive but some what of a nuisance. Hi, GGTracker will allow up to 25 uploads at once for free, as many times as you want. So you can definitely keep using GGTracker without paying, just upload your games in batches of 25 or less. Maybe I should switch GGTracker to work the way you thought it did?  Anyway it's growing nicely and I would like students and whatnot to be able to use it without paying, so I'll leave it as is for now. | ||
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KhrisKruel
United States146 Posts
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Zebansis
United States6 Posts
If its your business.... and this is the business side of me. Um yeah, absolutely. Perhaps raise it up to 50 total or 15 games a month or so, but free trials are about giving people a taste of a worthy service. Subscription sites of most types average about a 3.5 month drop out rate, but that number is at much higher dollar figures and usually not affiliated with a game. Experiment and see what will make the best conversions, you did create that site with the idea of making money and being a resource correct? The folks who do videos on YouTube and the like monetize with advertisements, you could try and do the same with how to instruction in video as well. But you are not creating a video a day, so a token amount of $5 a month for something that's a passion, and you are servicing a passionate audience. No one is going to come find your service if they don't have some passion about the game. I dont know how many users you have, but if 50% converted, that probably decent gross revenue, now you have money for marketing beyond forums and word of mouth to attract some of the casual players and you can address server concerns/costs with increased traffic/storage required for uploads. Shoot me an email if you want to discuss further. Just look at business as a type of Starcraft build order, the framework is done. Good luck with the rest! Hopefully the community at large does throw me out for the idea! | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I cannot stress enough, UNIT COUNTERS DO NOT MATTER IN THE STUFF LEAGUE. That being said, have fun experimenting with the strengths and weaknesses of your current unit. I would highly suggest against trying to learn strategy from your wins and losses now. Once your mechanics are solid, then the reason why you win or lose can be found in the strategy. For now, doing that will be largely a waste of time. | ||
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Zebansis
United States6 Posts
I hear ya on the stuff league, I have sent untold number of marines & sometimes marauders to their death. Wave after wave...after wave. I am finding my enemies are either overcome, or they concentrate with lots of units waiting and picking apart the waves. If vs Terran, Siege Tanks, Mines, Marines, Marauders, Medivacs, Thors. Against an opponent like that, i just type GG and move on to the next game. Perhaps its because of a new expansion or new season... but I run into those combos a lot. My focus isnt to win so much as it is to make my SQ better, i struggle with that further along in the game. When I have 8-14 barracks 4 CC's, and 80 workers, its stuff to keep the resource bank down. heaven forbid i hit the 200 cap, then it feels like there is nothing to expend it on. One thing at a time, my goal is to hit 80 SQ and no supply caps ever, with regards to the energy thing...I just pull down mules as often as I can, no idea if I ever cap out, i dont think i even know where to look for that info. Its all good though! | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Keep at it! :D Also, I would suggest a maximum of 3 base worker saturation (16 on minerals gas as you need it). 80 workers is a bit excessive. | ||
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Ehtele
Norway8 Posts
On March 19 2013 20:40 dsjoerg wrote: Hi, GGTracker will allow up to 25 uploads at once for free, as many times as you want. So you can definitely keep using GGTracker without paying, just upload your games in batches of 25 or less. Maybe I should switch GGTracker to work the way you thought it did? Anyway it's growing nicely and I would like students and whatnot to be able to use it without paying, so I'll leave it as is for now. Oh... my bad then. I probably haven't tried to upload less then 25 then. I'm a happy cat again =) | ||
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