EPT
).Yes, Banshees have a nice dps, but you have a load of glasscannons with your bio army already. You lack the tanky units that do much damage, because they live long, instead of fast damage followed by fast death.
[D] TvP MMM --> Marine/Medivac + BC + Ghost - Page 3
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
).Yes, Banshees have a nice dps, but you have a load of glasscannons with your bio army already. You lack the tanky units that do much damage, because they live long, instead of fast damage followed by fast death. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On September 21 2012 19:03 Jarree wrote: BCs don't have the synergy with bio. Bio needs to kite chargelots and BCs can't kite and die to stalkers. If you don't kite chargelots, your bio dies. If someone has a high level VOD with bio+bc in tvp i'm interested to see it. edit: btw what do you mean with Properly upgraded like energy upgrade not researched? Guys... The missing link is RAVEN. 8 Ravens for every 6 BCs can make very short work of even mass stalkers. Systematic deployment of PDD will make it almost suicidal for stalker/colossi ball to challenge. The trick is to deal with the eventual HT response which requires good control of the ravens and ghosts. I have theory crafted quite some time, for sky Terran an escort group for the BCs is medivac/ghost/raven/Viking. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On September 21 2012 21:49 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Guys... The missing link is RAVEN. 8 Ravens for every 6 BCs can make very short work of even mass stalkers. Systematic deployment of PDD will make it almost suicidal for stalker/colossi ball to challenge. The trick is to deal with the eventual HT response which requires good control of the ravens and ghosts. I have theory crafted quite some time, for sky Terran an escort group for the BCs is medivac/ghost/raven/Viking. I guess you mean 1 Raven per 6 BCs, right? My earlier strategy description included Ravens, so yes, i'm all with you there. I'm just not quite sure what you need the Medivacs and Vikings for. 1 Medivac to heal lightly wounded Ghosts ok, but more is imo wasted supply, because Protoss will probably wipe anything you have on the ground, being healed or not. Also cloak is probably the better friend of Ghosts here. Observers are uncloaked by Ravens anyways and will hopefully die quite fast then so there's no detection for him anymore. Vikings will shoot at Colossi, yes, but those are no threat for your BCs anyways, so no point. Just when Protoss switches to heavy air, Vikings are nice. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
Meaning you also need a bunch of ghosts to do the dirty work, meaning you'll be on at least 5 base just to support the gas. Meaning BCs are a transition OUT of bio, which is when 3/3 bio, 3/0 air with ~8-10 ghosts and a bunch of vikings still isnt working against the protoss.... Which just really doesnt happen on the current maps unless there are terrans still on taldarim or something huge like that. Yes we all watched that sick Mvp vs Iforgothisname (Squirtle i think) GSL Code S finals where it was a mass BC raven ghost viking vs mass carrier/mothership/archons/HT In which Mvp swore he wouldve won the match if he dodged the sick vortex (basically a ZvP situation with mass blords) But that was on the largest GSL map, with both players hitting up about 7+ bases. On September 21 2012 21:42 BurningRanger wrote: Banshees are a lot more fragile than BCs. I've tried heavy Banshee styles, but Protoss can 1) mass Stalkers way easier than you can Banshees 2) Storm the whatever out of them with HTs (feedback is waste of APM here) and 3) easily counter them by adding some phoenixes (that don't work that good against BCs ).Yes, Banshees have a nice dps, but you have a load of glasscannons with your bio army already. You lack the tanky units that do much damage, because they live long, instead of fast damage followed by fast death. How about a THOR - high HP +armor, decent damage, stomps FFs and can easily be repaired, baits feedback, soak up storms and collosi damage - also snipes collosi/stalker decently well. Also moves at a decent rate. So to return to the question Jinx is asking - only in super late game, and also requires a really really large map to achieve on. To get BCs out without dying to a straight push from protoss requires heavy defenses, since BCs take up a TON of resources, supply, support and time to get out, in which your basic mmmvg army will be at a supply disadvantage in a straight up fight against protoss. This means PFs holding key locations, and probably double PFs at far expansions, in which you slowly buildup your air army and suicide scvs, then marines, then marauders. Also, if the protoss is any decent and transitions into carriers/void/Mship+shit ton of archons to counter you, realize that this fight requires a much more hardcore babysitting than anything terran ever had to do other than being unsieged on creep in the middle on a zerg base who happens to have 30 thousand banelings and infestors. And carrier DPS is fucking insane. The only reason terran can actually hold a candle against carriers is because of emp+yamato. Please do NOT let your BCs/ghosts get FBed/destroyed if you plan on making this work at all. No, vikings do not work against mass carrier. For them to actually work you need almost 1.5x the amount required to one shot a carrier. Carrier range is the same or greater than vikings and they can easily snipe down a couple vikings before you kill one carrier, and having a cloud of vikings is really just asking to be stormed/vortex'd/archon rofl. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
I miss those SC:BW days, where they did happen every blue moon. | ||
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MrF
United States320 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:44 jinx1281255 wrote: This is not constructive and is unsubstantiated. Don't bother posting useless opinions unless you wish to specify a particular situation in which these apply. DPS is not the issue, it is the ability for the BCs to tank for the bio army (which has excessive DPS). Range can be a problem, situationally, the BC is for main engagments, not for rapid base defense. Though, I do agree that their ability to retreat is a problem in many maps. It's not really cool to lash out at theis guy for stating the truth, BC's are not very good except in a very specific situaltion, they are slow, expensive with questionable DPS and bad range, those arent unsubstantiated statements and most people who know the game well would agree, its a nice idea but when you post a really wierd and unused strategy expect some people to put it down. It's pretty much accepted at this point that using BC's as a part of your unit composition just wont work unless you have a huge economy. I just really dont like how you assult him and call his opinion useless when he makes a pretty valid point albiet in a rather tactless manner, but he wasnt really insulting you and he certainly didn't tell YOU not to post useless opinions about silly strats that wont work, which one could argue that he could have. You arent a mod so i dont think it is your right to tell people not to post their opinions or that they are useless and im sure you wouldn't like it if someone did it to you. Have a nice day. | ||
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
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nottapro
202 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
That means 4 initial ravens and 8 safest as with 8 ravens, toss will start getting reluctant with massing stalkers. | ||
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