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On August 11 2012 03:59 Belial88 wrote:
Quit theorycrafting out of your ass on why this build won't work if you've never played it or against it before. You don't think haypro, hyun, stephano, etc thought about move-commanding their corruptors into BCs to make HSM useless, or using FG?
FG is great against pure raven, but it is shit when there are siege tanks or BC's around, not to mention it takes quite a few FG to kill ravens or BCs. Air terran can reach a critical mass where any sort of air army will get destroy, HSM is just ridiculously strong. Mass hydras get raped by BC's too, just like they get raped by carriers, because they don't do enough damage and have too little health.
Only way I see beating sky terran is going ultras. We've seen in Code S some zergs get slain by sky terran (usually on atlantis too). What do you think OP (as in what beat this).
I wouldn't say FG is shit, but yeah, it doesn't "counter" sky terran.
The best counter is to counter with ling/bling/ultra, that's the only style I've actually had trouble with once I got bc/raven/ghost up and running. Ultras just do not die and cracklings are basically free and can be really annoying.It basically just flips the match-up towards Z having to abuse the Terran's immobility, rather than the other way around. But even then it can be really hard the later the game goes; nydus worms are pretty easy to deny if you don't build 4-5 in his main and PFs are pretty good.
You can still win with just corruptor/raven, but it becomes more of a "am I going to NP a raven and blow his shit up before he blows my shit up?" or "will he stack all his ravens into 1fg range?" which sucks.
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What do you think is the best way to deal with mass lings? I tried something somewhat similar on metropolis, the zerg counterattacked with huge amounts of lings and it was really annoying to deal with. It's not a counter to this build at all, just very frustrating to deal with. Maybe dump some of the minerals into hellions?
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This style actualy gets shut down prety hard when zerg players stop making 20+ broodlords vs pure air.
Mass infestors and some ling/ultra to destroy shit and harras absolutly wrecks the living shit out of this except for mb 1-2 maps.
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I have some experience with yoshis pure air build and I've found that hanging around, harassing expansions, and expanding/placing PF/turret everywhere works quite well once you get rolling. Upgraded of pretty good against long counters, also if you can force the big engagemt im range of your defense, well then, bitchin'
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On August 11 2012 07:41 4Servy wrote:
This style actualy gets shut down prety hard when zerg players stop making 20+ broodlords vs pure air.
Mass infestors and some ling/ultra to destroy shit and harras absolutly wrecks the living shit out of this except for mb 1-2 maps.
What if the terran camps at his PF's and gets some ghosts to emp/snipe or even positional nuke so the Zerg can't force an engagment with IT. Also not going Bl or corrupter just allows the Terran to ignore vikings and hence they will have enough supply to get extra Bc's and ghost.
There have been numerous posts about harassing and how difficult it is for Zerg to do against a careful Terran.
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On August 11 2012 07:35 kranten wrote:
What do you think is the best way to deal with mass lings? I tried something somewhat similar on metropolis, the zerg counterattacked with huge amounts of lings and it was really annoying to deal with. It's not a counter to this build at all, just very frustrating to deal with. Maybe dump some of the minerals into hellions?
Maybe put some a PF by your production?
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Hey guys, In fact u have a LOT of money because of ur high gaz army. Thats why, like a late game zerg can do u can put some PF & some bunker & turret on every open space. That's also why the build order / mix is better on some map ! Thanks for all ur feedback !
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I like how the early siege mode keeps this relatively safe against baneling busts and especially roach/baneling all-ins. I'll give this a try, thanks for the build.
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You sir just made my day, just won against a zerg with this tactic, i haven't won against a zerg without doing some king of all-inish attacks before late game.
But thanks to you I won against a zerg in a late game. I may only be in gold but this helped me alot. Thanks (:
Also Raven is one of my favorite units. :D
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Holy moly SO much fucking theorycrafting in this thread and not enough playing.
Good guide hopefully people post their replays with their success and failures
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On August 11 2012 01:08 Sated wrote:
I wish that guide writers would get someone to proof read their guides for them when English isn't their first language. I suppose it's a harsh criticism to level at someone who has obviously put a lot of effort into their guide, but parts of this are really hard to read...
... but this is still an awesome guide. I'm glad that Terran players are looking at Sky Terran as a possible answer to Broodlord/Infestor compositions because it might inspire more Protoss players to take a harder look at Carriers! :D
Really? English may not be their first language but I was able to understand this whole guide perfectly fine.
You have to tolerate, not everyone speaks english. Surely their engilsh is at least good enough so people will understand the guide. It seems that you are the only one who cannot udnerstand parts of this guide too.
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Couldnt make it work.
Every time Zerg just take all map and send waves of blings, lings, roaches to your expos. They just do so much pressure.
Im just getting tired from running from 3rd to 4th and back to natural -.-. For me its 20times easier to pressure zerg with drops.
1 time I actually managed to make that 200 limit deathball, however all i had left after baneling rolls was 1 crappy expo and half base :D
Going back to 2 base MMM 3rd base kill, while taking own 3rd.
-Mid masters terran
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Gold Terran here.
It's difficult, but I'm trying to learn it. I want to make this my main strategy.
I've always loved the Raven.
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I would like to see some more replays of this.
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On August 11 2012 07:24 MaxSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 06:18 Flonomenalz wrote:
I think the only way to beat properly played Sky Terran is to continuously go Ultra/Crackling w/ Nydus and destroy all their production facilities and econ, then continue to split/trade/remax with Corruptor/Infestor as best as possible until his army eventually dies. Not really, no. You just keep 2 marauders on patrol in your main to deny Nydus. After your main is mined out (by that point, you got all the shop upgrades), even if he does a mass-drop of Zerglings+Ultras, you can go clean that up with the fleet while lifting up and moving all your production facilities (4/5 starports) to the closest place that has 3+ PF's at it, and remaking the core there. The rest of the bases have 2+ PF's with turrets/bunkers/supply around them, and repairing SCV's, and some of them got tanks. Oh, and the fleet can usually cover quite a lot of bases. So if you don't have around 8+ ultras, you wont kill of the expansion, and if you do, you've thrown a ton of gas to kill maby 2 PFs (300 gas) while usually losing at least 6 ultras once the fleet has arived and cleaned up everything, which is worth way more than 300 gas. Meanwhile the Terran lifts one of the many fresh CC's and puts it in place again, turning it anto a PF while not disturbing the gas mining. You can argue that you had nydus and most of your units could escape, but if you did, he should've had 2 patrol marauders there to deny it (with soem turret wall ,in case you went late-game mutas). If any composition can beat Raven/BC, that's Corruptor/Infestor, but with similar levels of micro you'd still win.
can't the zerg drop 8-16 clings onto your patrol and then nydus as your patrol is dying?
Another question= how does BC raven deal with the zerg covering the map with over a hundred spores so you have to slowpush with a few tanks to clear out the spores, and what if he has just a couple bl queen to dance around the spores to keep the tanks/vikings away?
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On August 12 2012 00:29 ScoSteSal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 07:24 MaxSteel wrote:On August 11 2012 06:18 Flonomenalz wrote:
I think the only way to beat properly played Sky Terran is to continuously go Ultra/Crackling w/ Nydus and destroy all their production facilities and econ, then continue to split/trade/remax with Corruptor/Infestor as best as possible until his army eventually dies. Not really, no. You just keep 2 marauders on patrol in your main to deny Nydus. After your main is mined out (by that point, you got all the shop upgrades), even if he does a mass-drop of Zerglings+Ultras, you can go clean that up with the fleet while lifting up and moving all your production facilities (4/5 starports) to the closest place that has 3+ PF's at it, and remaking the core there. The rest of the bases have 2+ PF's with turrets/bunkers/supply around them, and repairing SCV's, and some of them got tanks. Oh, and the fleet can usually cover quite a lot of bases. So if you don't have around 8+ ultras, you wont kill of the expansion, and if you do, you've thrown a ton of gas to kill maby 2 PFs (300 gas) while usually losing at least 6 ultras once the fleet has arived and cleaned up everything, which is worth way more than 300 gas. Meanwhile the Terran lifts one of the many fresh CC's and puts it in place again, turning it anto a PF while not disturbing the gas mining. You can argue that you had nydus and most of your units could escape, but if you did, he should've had 2 patrol marauders there to deny it (with soem turret wall ,in case you went late-game mutas). If any composition can beat Raven/BC, that's Corruptor/Infestor, but with similar levels of micro you'd still win. can't the zerg drop 8-16 clings onto your patrol and then nydus as your patrol is dying? Another question= how does BC raven deal with the zerg covering the map with over a hundred spores so you have to slowpush with a few tanks to clear out the spores, and what if he has just a couple bl queen to dance around the spores to keep the tanks/vikings away?
Sounds like a two hour positionl game to me. :D
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On August 10 2012 23:49 Xana wrote:
What if the Zerg in the GIF did the obvious thing which is spam IT's and keep fungalling your army down? He won't really have to engage with the Corrupters at all, and fungal has longer range than both BC's normal attacks and all of raven's spells. Since fungal and Yamato cannon has the same range, I figure your entire fleet would be shut down by simply letting infestors take anything thats not BC's out of the game.
Assuming you split your army, Zerg also gets to split his, and HSM won't be even half as effective as showcased.
Yup.
The video shown in the beginning actually is a fairly terrible engagement, almost the worst possible. If the zerg simply held back and stun locked with fungals it would almost be enough to kill all of that air alone. If the zerg microed his corruptors into the units he would have lost everything while the infestors remained. FFS the infestors even neural parasite the BCs which are nearly useless, if he neuraled the ravens serious damage could have occured as well.
Although the strategy may be good overall that video certainly does not accurately represent it, i'm thoroughly skeptical since i have played a similar style myself before, in my experience and in the experience of many pro games sky terran against zerg is pretty terrible. For the same reasons that skytoss is not very good against zerg sky terran is pretty bad against zerg, even moreso given the very short range of the BC, the low range of HSM and the lack of a mothership like unit to vortex infestors/corruptors.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
I am gonna try this out seem really good if I can get past the Platinum phase of I will throw every allin in the book at you 
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The only reason it works is because it's wierd. Sure enough, good control of sky terran allows more cost-efficient way of dealing with Zerg deathball, although with the strat as it is zerg can go 4 hatch before pool and be fine with it(I'm being sarcastic here)
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On August 12 2012 00:29 ScoSteSal wrote:
Another question= how does BC raven deal with the zerg covering the map with over a hundred spores so you have to slowpush with a few tanks to clear out the spores, and what if he has just a couple bl queen to dance around the spores to keep the tanks/vikings away?
If you have BC/Raven, then you don't need tanks to deal with mass Spores. PDD shuts down Spores/Queens cold and if Zerg wants to play the transfuse game you just Yamato the Queens or whatever he's trying to heal (e.g "Transfuse This!"). Plus this means that Zerg is dumping larva into making drones instead of more dangerous units, and large amounts of minerals are being spent on Spores instead of Zergling counterattacks. This probably works out better for the Terran.
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EPT
