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I am trying to learn it but the timings seem way off, I coulnd afford to make tanks so fast and the guide doesn't says anything about what to do with my addons and when to get stim. (you get infrantry attack upgrades so I asume you make plenty of bio?) Granted I haven't watched the replays but if that's neccesary to learn the build I think that the build order section needs an update.
If you haven't got all the timings written down I'll watch the replays later tonight and make a build order section tonight if you want? I am a little short on time currently.
Edit: so I just watched 2 replays and saw SonG get just chsield and +2 once on Shakuras and now this game on Daybreak he gets stim at like 13:00, I am a bit confused what to do with the combat shield and stim upgrade, the rest of the build order note seems fine aside from some minor things. So if you could just explain the deal about stim and c shield ^^
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The funniest thing about this thread is that the replay on that gif goes on for like 30 more minutes after that zerg army got crushed.
Probably not the most convincing example :D
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Not all that relevant but I heard Billy Mays voice while reading the top intro.
Other than that - awesome guide. Possible first post, long time lurker - Im amazed. Starting practice games today
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I for one am hugely excited about the raven becoming much better. Once people actually start playing like this, they will easily win. Zerg has the worst anti-air in the game combined with the problem of having absolutely nothing that deals with energy based units. Really, really excited to see what change to Zerg they will make to make it possible to actually deal with this. I've played around against a friend for a few hours in a unit tester and there literally wasn't an army in the game I could make that could kill even half of mass raven / BC at any cost.
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what is zerg's best option to this if i may ask?
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On August 10 2012 23:49 Xana wrote:
What if the Zerg in the GIF did the obvious thing which is spam IT's and keep fungalling your army down? He won't really have to engage with the Corrupters at all, and fungal has longer range than both BC's normal attacks and all of raven's spells. Since fungal and Yamato cannon has the same range, I figure your entire fleet would be shut down by simply letting infestors take anything thats not BC's out of the game.
Assuming you split your army, Zerg also gets to split his, and HSM won't be even half as effective as showcased.
You can also lay down turret fields to prevent the Infestors from trying to approach you without dying. Since his army would be mostly corruptor/infestor, there isn't much to kill the turrets with except ITs.
Also, i was really skeptical at first but hurray for a legit air guide! thanks!
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Instead of turtling up really hard and making the game come down to one huge engagement, could it be possible to do something like 3OC 2 or 3port banshee with quick double air upgrades -> sky terran? I feel like you'd have a lot more power that way as you can stay aggressive to make sure the Zerg isn't getting way too greedy, like expanding to every single unoccupied base on Condemned.
You could even skip the infantry upgrades and maybe even tanks - I think two bunkers at your natural and three at your third + a PF at every expansion past your third should provide enough time for your banshees to clean up any form of attack that is attempted in the early/midgame, and after you've gotten six geysers and started Raven production you should be able to take your fourth/fifth with relative ease.
I feel like banshees are too good not to use when going sky terran - Zerg really has no way to stop you from denying any base past their third until they get muta, which would probably be a typical response to mass banshee in the early game. As long as you can snipe hatches before they finish, they just can't get spores down so you're forcing a) hydra, b) muta, or c) corruptor along with infestor. After you've forced a response and scouted his tech choice, you can easily just sit back on 4/5 bases and get out your raven/BC while continually harassing with banshee until you've forced spores on every inch of creep.
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Quit theorycrafting out of your ass on why this build won't work if you've never played it or against it before. You don't think haypro, hyun, stephano, etc thought about move-commanding their corruptors into BCs to make HSM useless, or using FG?
FG is great against pure raven, but it is shit when there are siege tanks or BC's around, not to mention it takes quite a few FG to kill ravens or BCs. Air terran can reach a critical mass where any sort of air army will get destroy, HSM is just ridiculously strong. Mass hydras get raped by BC's too, just like they get raped by carriers, because they don't do enough damage and have too little health.
Only way I see beating sky terran is going ultras. We've seen in Code S some zergs get slain by sky terran (usually on atlantis too). What do you think OP (as in what beat this).
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On August 11 2012 01:48 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote:
if he splits his corrupters in that gif you have 0 chance. also spores and spines. you need tanks tvz. thats just the way it is. or build hydra spores and counter attack with ling bling.
Need tanks TvZ? That's not true given that a lot of high level players play the MU tankless. They tend to get 1-2 volleys off before being swarmed and they're a pretty expensive meat shield. MarineKing styled Bio/Thor is a perfect example of a successful tankless style.
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On August 11 2012 03:59 Belial88 wrote:
Quit theorycrafting out of your ass on why this build won't work if you've never played it or against it before. You don't think haypro, hyun, stephano, etc thought about move-commanding their corruptors into BCs to make HSM useless, or using FG?
FG is great against pure raven, but it is shit when there are siege tanks or BC's around, not to mention it takes quite a few FG to kill ravens or BCs. Air terran can reach a critical mass where any sort of air army will get destroy, HSM is just ridiculously strong. Mass hydras get raped by BC's too, just like they get raped by carriers, because they don't do enough damage and have too little health.
Only way I see beating sky terran is going ultras. We've seen in Code S some zergs get slain by sky terran (usually on atlantis too). What do you think OP (as in what beat this).
Thanks for the smart words. I have quite a lot of experience as a zerg fighting vs this because i was also the training partner of song for like month vs this style. I'd say the timing attack with MASS like 50-60 infested terrans and pure corruptors (2-3 BL at max) before terran constructs the whole composition is pretty good, it's not auto-win though, its very micro/split dependant and also terran can nullify it with good amounts planetaries and turrets
Yea, please check out reps first before commenting 
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I think a sky style like this is the future of TvZ and should become a used strategy soon at the highest level. Battlecruisers are very powerful because they are resistant to fungal. their weakness to corrupters is a secondary problem
I think the perfect army is actually about 10vikings, 2ravens, 3tanks, everything else battlecruisers. when moving across the map you leapfrog your 3 tanks (takes alot of micro i know) and the tanks outrange fungal/NP. keep your BC's fairly spread, and keep the vikings/ravens over the tanks in area protected by tanks. Then you constantly scan and yamato ultralisks/broodlords when you see them. then when corrupters come in, you actually trade pretty well against them with 10viking/bc and some PDD's
I believe HSM is very weak in a sky build. Instead HSM seems to be more designed as a power play to use when going full BIO+medivac/raven. Its a strategy thats popping up at the high level that seems to work well. You have like 40 marauders, 30 marines, some 7 medivacs, and like 13 ravens to HSM the broodlords. you dont even bother stimming your bio, just spread them and a-move and keep the marines behind the marauders, a-move your entire army and let the medivacs heal fungal and with a couple HSM's the entire zergs army will melt
instead of HSM, those 2ravens are a very powerful asset against corrupters. 4 PDD's are so strong when they block corrupter attacks. you can almost kill 200food of pure corrupter with mass BC+10viking+2ravens
if the zerg maxes out to 230food of corrupters (spine tricks) then you want 4-5ravens for 10PDD's
I will say however I think the build in the OP is probably not the most optimal way to perform this plan. I think you could find a more cost effective way to do this like get marine/tank and save money by not needing bunkers, and leapfrog siege tanks to take a fourth base then become hyper defensive and you should get the 4bases faster putting more stress on the zerg. and with leaprogged tanks your marines become protected from fungal. Then if the zerg is going mass muta, you match his muta count with vikings and sensor towers to be safe from muta. spread vikings with tank support should slaughter mutas+infestors.
Then you just skip bio upgrades and start saccing marines for BC's and slowly reach the supreme sky army with defensive planetarys protecting your 4bases
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I think its a way to long build order to remember by brain
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On August 11 2012 04:46 Dacrusah wrote:
I think its a way to long build order to remember by brain
Lucky someone invented paper then.
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That gif is really what sold this strategy for me.
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Reads legit and considering the opponents you beat with it it's no wonder.
I just want to see one thing, the replay where zerg gets off two NP's and uses your own ravens against you and every single raven you own blows up at once leaving you with no ravens and a bunch of half health battlecruisers. Which was easily possible in the gif you gave, zerg just NP'ed the wrong targets.
:D
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I think the only way to beat properly played Sky Terran is to continuously go Ultra/Crackling w/ Nydus and destroy all their production facilities and econ, then continue to split/trade/remax with Corruptor/Infestor as best as possible until his army eventually dies.
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You gotta love it when random low level noobs come into a guide thread saying "IT WONT WORK, X Y or Z WILL HAPPEN AND YOU WILL LOSE" I'm 100% certain that if it can work vs grand master and pro level players, it can fucking work. There are examples of sky terran being used AT the pro level with 40+ minute games, this guide just shows a different way to get there/ how to play it all game long.
Anyway, guide looks very interesting will definitely be trying it out, thanks for the info, I'm sure a lot of us appreciate the effort, ignore the other ungrateful fucktards.
Edit: My biggest concern is the typical concern in tvz late game, zergs production. When zerg has a ton of bases and tons of larva, his eco and production can get insane, and virtually last forever (until you do something to stop it, or he wins the game). Assuming that zerg doesn't blunder his army control and lose everything while killing nothing (allowing you to just rampage through some of his eco while he rebuilds) how are you going to secure more bases and keep your deathball rolling. If zerg constantly attacks/contests/denies your 5th/6th bases you will eventually get outproduced. Going to check out the replays to see if this is addressed, but would love some feedback if it isn't
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On August 10 2012 23:37 Matiz_pl wrote:
4.2 Mid game
Hello, you survived early game. Let’s do the same what we did in early game but 3 times harder - develop our economy and camp on tanks. There are more threats in this part; ass ling baneling, fast 2 base muta, muta ling baneling, mass ling infested terrans etc etc.
I'd be terrified of facing ass ling baneling 
What a wonderful guide! I've been looking for inspiration in TvZ lately, and this is exactly the kind of idea that I wanted. I'm scared of trying this as the lowly diamond that I am (afraid I won't be able to utilize the strong econ well enough), but I'll try to just keep spamming bunkers and planetaries. The guide might be a bit overspecific as far as timings go, but maybe the build just requires that much precision. I liked the write up about exploring the build - rather than every XX:XX time where you build something, talking about the idea of what to build (and when) gives it a nice anchor that makes it easy to remember in game.
Thanks again! :D
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I mess around with a similar idea, but I use a heavy helion/marine with some tanks build to get my my bases up and running and just go straight into sky terran and send my marines and helions to be as annoying as terranly possible. I also follow the mentality of PF walls split the map and hold my bases. A couple of turrets help with pesky burrowed units trying to hit far away expansions. Then just camp over the PF and let the zerg run into a hellish scene of blood(hint: skyterran has no blood to spill ). Personally I think you should have a section about which air upgrades are better to prioritize, which will depend on the compositions of the Zerg. As if they are going infestor heavey for a mass IT break then armour is the better upgrade. Then again this is only if you have trouble getting your gas going.
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On August 11 2012 06:18 Flonomenalz wrote:
I think the only way to beat properly played Sky Terran is to continuously go Ultra/Crackling w/ Nydus and destroy all their production facilities and econ, then continue to split/trade/remax with Corruptor/Infestor as best as possible until his army eventually dies.
Not really, no.
You just keep 2 marauders on patrol in your main to deny Nydus. After your main is mined out (by that point, you got all the shop upgrades), even if he does a mass-drop of Zerglings+Ultras, you can go clean that up with the fleet while lifting up and moving all your production facilities (4/5 starports) to the closest place that has 3+ PF's at it, and remaking the core there.
The rest of the bases have 2+ PF's with turrets/bunkers/supply around them, and repairing SCV's, and some of them got tanks. Oh, and the fleet can usually cover quite a lot of bases. So if you don't have around 8+ ultras, you wont kill of the expansion, and if you do, you've thrown a ton of gas to kill maby 2 PFs (300 gas) while usually losing at least 6 ultras once the fleet has arived and cleaned up everything, which is worth way more than 300 gas. Meanwhile the Terran lifts one of the many fresh CC's and puts it in place again, turning it anto a PF while not disturbing the gas mining.
You can argue that you had nydus and most of your units could escape, but if you did, he should've had 2 patrol marauders there to deny it (with soem turret wall ,in case you went late-game mutas).
If any composition can beat Raven/BC, that's Corruptor/Infestor, but with similar levels of micro you'd still win.
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EPT
