EPT[G] PvP HerO's Safe Stargate Opener - Page 3
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
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Pobbes
Philippines54 Posts
he plants 2 pylons on the low ground early at around 4:20ish, waits for his stalker then pushes up with 2 probes, zealot and stalker. he mineral walks the probes so my zealots don't kill them and then just splits the probes. and builds pylons. i was thinking maybe i should have forcefielded him before he got up the ramp? i would've been able to delay him so he'd have to warp in the low ground and get my 2nd sentry in time to forcefield. but then would i have been able to keep the ramp FF'd until warp gate finishes? | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
Therefore I recently switched to the 2 Gas, 2 Gate - 1 Zealot / 5 Stalker opening. I get a lot of relyable scouting information early on through aggressive poking and although my Phoenix-Production is a bit delayed a Mirror-Oponent with an Opening like the one presented here has to build a lot of sentries to not outright die, which overcompensates my delayed Stargate. | ||
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DarkblueRH
United States144 Posts
On July 09 2012 22:36 Pobbes wrote: hi! i tried testing this build against 4g with a friend and i couldn't seem to hold it. here's the replay: http://drop.sc/217476 he plants 2 pylons on the low ground early at around 4:20ish, waits for his stalker then pushes up with 2 probes, zealot and stalker. he mineral walks the probes so my zealots don't kill them and then just splits the probes. and builds pylons. i was thinking maybe i should have forcefielded him before he got up the ramp? i would've been able to delay him so he'd have to warp in the low ground and get my 2nd sentry in time to forcefield. but then would i have been able to keep the ramp FF'd until warp gate finishes? Hey, add DarkblueRH.749 I'd like to work this out with you if you've got the opportunity. To be honest, I don't have a definitive answer. But I think if you spend Chrono on your gateway, and go zealot->stalker->sentry->sentry like Markwerf suggested you can fight for map presence with your zealot+stalker and hopefully snag a probe or two. But I don't have anyone to practice with and no one has 4gated me on ladder yet in a few days. Also, sending a probe to your opponents base so that you go up the ramp at 5:00 is a definitive scout of a 4gate before the Stargate finishes. You should be able to cancel the Stargate, and go like 3gate-Robo or a defensive 4gate in response to it. But your warpgate will be much later so I'm thinking Robo is the better option for the immortals. The trick is gonna be figuring out how to deal with both probes at that timing and I think the stalker might just be it. I just don't know how going zealot->stalker->sentry->sentry effects the build as a whole. I still wanna play around with it before making any changes to the guide. I'd love some people to practice it with so please add DarkblueRH.749 and/or Darkblue.162 (My second account) and hit me up when you get a chance. | ||
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
I really love this build, however, I have trouble deciding what to do against a two gate expand. Is it better to just go and try to push with immortal stalker obs? Or take a nexus straight away? | ||
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DarkblueRH
United States144 Posts
You can likely go for the 1base bust depending on what you see your opponent building in his main. The 2gate expand has a lot of units really early, but not a lot of units later. Off a 2gate expand they're likely to go for a 5gate blink vs phoenix. I'd likely just expand vs that and flex your tech advantage by getting immortals, and eventually colossus when you've got 4 gas. Basically if he's not making a ton of gateways immediately after he expands, You can likely just go kill him. If he has a ton of gates, then that's the best position for him to be in to hold your 1base attack, so likely expanding is the better option there because you have the tech advantage. However, you can still possibly kill him if you force units into his main with phoenix giving vision of the high ground and warping a zealot or two into his mineral line. Similar to the game that ZasZ was talking about earlier. What's annoying is that the 2gate pressure will force a bunch of sentries out of you :/. On July 09 2012 13:22 ZasZ. wrote: HSCV Spoilers: + Show Spoiler + Isn't this the build that MC used in that epic HSC game against HasuObs where he used Phoenix to keep Hasu's units in his main and then chain FF'd the ramp and killed his natural Nexus with 2 Zealots and 2 Sentries? Keep in mind that this advice could be wrong I'm not 100% explored with this build, I just kinda wanted to post it mostly for myself so I can practice it more with the transcribed build written down. I'm working on getting more replays as soon as I'm not embarrassed about posting them because of how sloppy most of them are. If any of you guys reading have good replays of you using this build, please by all means post them! | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
On July 12 2012 08:34 DarkblueRH wrote: You'd be better off not making stalkers and going immortal/sentry/zealot/phoenix if you want to bust him off 1 base. You can likely go for the 1base bust depending on what you see your opponent building in his main. The 2gate expand has a lot of units really early, but not a lot of units later. Off a 2gate expand they're likely to go for a 5gate blink vs phoenix. I'd likely just expand vs that and flex your tech advantage by getting immortals, and eventually colossus when you've got 4 gas. Basically if he's not making a ton of gateways immediately after he expands, You can likely just go kill him. If he has a ton of gates, then that's the best position for him to be in to hold your 1base attack, so likely expanding is the better option there because you have the tech advantage. However, you can still possibly kill him if you force units into his main with phoenix giving vision of the high ground and warping a zealot or two into his mineral line. Similar to the game that ZasZ was talking about earlier. What's annoying is that the 2gate pressure will force a bunch of sentries out of you :/. Keep in mind that this advice could be wrong I'm not 100% explored with this build, I just kinda wanted to post it mostly for myself so I can practice it more with the transcribed build written down. I'm working on getting more replays as soon as I'm not embarrassed about posting them because of how sloppy most of them are. If any of you guys reading have good replays of you using this build, please by all means post them! Thank you for your prompt response! Your answer is very clear and concise and explains precisely why I lost the match. He went 5 gate blink and I tried to bust with stalkers and immortals. Probably not the best idea. I guess if he goes blink, then it's best to expand and hold aggression while teching to colossi, because you'll be getting colossi earlier and your late game composition. (not mid game where he has archons) SHOULD beat his army. He would've already devoted gas to blink, and a natural transition is dts/archons. I guess it also depends on his gate count, Now that i think about it, he did have 4-5 gates, and I made a poor decision. It seems two gate expand into 5 base blink is a great response to this build, because with good micro blink can shut down phoenixes, and the opponent will have a strong mid game army to push/do damage. TLDR: If opponent is two gate expanding, count gates and expand/attack accordingly. 5 gate blink into archon is strong against this build. | ||
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MLuneth
Australia557 Posts
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DarkblueRH
United States144 Posts
On July 12 2012 19:12 MLuneth wrote: Hey man, I enjoyed the guide but how about some comments on what maps this would be good/less good on? Done. | ||
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GleefulPiXie
Canada76 Posts
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DarkblueRH
United States144 Posts
On July 13 2012 06:19 GleefulPiXie wrote: This seems like a solid build, like OP said it spreads you a bit thin - I'm not 100% comfortable with such a slim defense against something like a 4gate which only requires vision of high-ground to win, but I'll for sure be giving this a shot. JUST re-wrote the 4gate section. So be sure to read it again. | ||
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Ahelvin
France1866 Posts
HerO's 2Gate Stargate To be honest this guide has improved my PvP so much, it's not even funny anymore  .By the way, I would need more replays or VODs of this build being used, do you have more of it by any chance? Thanks a lot ! | ||
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
So you start off not scouting and THEN you send your first probe out to their base, dodging their potential probe, stalker, zealot and arriving at 5? And if the probe is killed you can assume four gate? Previously, depending on how long they camp, I would have to make up to 5 sentries to hold a persistent four gater. This would leave me in an awkward position, because I just blew 500 on gas + more on robo. I assume they can somewhat safely expand because my tech is a little slow. I should just tech toward colossi and expand asap because I have earlier robo right? | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Archybaldie
United Kingdom818 Posts
Ive been doing a fast expand build for a while now and recently hit 74% win loss ratio on the ladder. My general response to any form of stargate play is to get out 3 immortals and then do an 8 gate all-in off 2 bases. Usually i slightly delay the all-in if i see the phoenixes headed to my base. So if the nix's lift probes they have no energy when i hit. So you could say the way i react to phoenixes is to not react absorb the damage and all in with a greater economy. Edit: i just re-read the op, apparently the 1st time i read through the OP my brain skipped the "How to React to a FAKE 4gate/3gate All-ins/Pressure that happens to be a 1gate Expand:" Part lol. I'm still not too convinced i've got too much to worry about with that opening. But hopefully i see it more to see how it plays out. | ||
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baselmarkit
14 Posts
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Ahelvin
France1866 Posts
Link to the VOD. HasuObs did a Fast Expand build and naturally kept his units inside his base to defend the Phoenixes while the expansion. The trick was that MC had built up to six Phoenixes, lifted the scouting Zealot at the Xel'Naga, continuously forcefielded the ramp of HasuObs and just killed the Nexus liked that. Had HasuObs' unit being on the low-ground, he would have seen his probe line decimated by MC's Phoenixes. Furthermore, warp-in on the low ground was not an option since the Phoenixes would have lifted the warping units and killed those. This reaction is quite dependent on doing Zealot/Sentry/Sentry (since you need so much forcefields available), but overall this looked very solid. On July 25 2012 00:51 Sated wrote: I was gonna transcribe this over when I'd finished sorting out some of the problems the current guides have, so you've saved me a lot of effort. Thanks!  You're very welcome, I'm heavily procrastinating on my thesis right now, so I may add a few more guides in the days to come . | ||
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scsequeL
47 Posts
Great Guide | ||
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-Switch-
Canada506 Posts
On July 12 2012 06:27 LiSAuCE wrote: Hey guys, I really love this build, however, I have trouble deciding what to do against a two gate expand. Is it better to just go and try to push with immortal stalker obs? Or take a nexus straight away? Take nexus straight away and harass with Phoenix to even it out. | ||
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