EPTJust attacked at 6:20 leave my base 6:50 arrived at his, 2 spines loads of speedlings was embarrassing.
[G] StimmedProbe's Postpatch TvZ Build #1 12-14-18rax - Pa…
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rebotfc
United Kingdom144 Posts
Just attacked at 6:20 leave my base 6:50 arrived at his, 2 spines loads of speedlings was embarrassing. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On July 04 2012 03:54 Starshaped wrote: CC first is actually safe in TvZ. It only loses to 6pool, and 6pool loses to everything else so nobody does it. Hilariously, if you scout after Depot just to be safe when you're going CC-first (on a 2p map... no one should be 6-pooling on 4p), you can see the 6-pool in time to NOT drop a CC, reactively wall in your ramp with 2 Barracks, and repair until Marines pop. Build a CC next, grab gas, defend the inevitable Baneling bust follow-up, and you win. 9 times out of 10, however, when his Drones and Zerglings get there and see you walled, he just leaves. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 04 2012 04:04 Jazzman88 wrote: Hilariously, if you scout after Depot just to be safe when you're going CC-first (on a 2p map... no one should be 6-pooling on 4p), you can see the 6-pool in time to NOT drop a CC, reactively wall in your ramp with 2 Barracks, and repair until Marines pop. Build a CC next, grab gas, defend the inevitable Baneling bust follow-up, and you win. 9 times out of 10, however, when his Drones and Zerglings get there and see you walled, he just leaves. Hahaha nice. Still having a hard time believing that a 6-pool is the ONLY THING a CC on the low ground loses to, but I haven't really tried it out a lot. Still, there are always those trolls that enter MLG and 6-pool just for fun. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On July 04 2012 00:12 Eps wrote: I thought the point of the build was to take advantage of Zerg's comfort in relying on Queens and Speedless Lings for defence. Watched all the replays, the third one was kind of tell-tale of how confident Zergs have become of their Queens. He saw a mass of Marines and even though they left, he didn't try to regain vision or scout, or even build additional Lings. Interesting build, will see how it works out. It's nice to see a way for Terran to be aggressive early game again. I meant pressure like a normal 12/14 while following the build, like pressure 12/14 fall back & come again with the push designated by the build. | ||
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Th1rdEye
United States1074 Posts
The weakness I see is that you attack pretty late with marines vs a non all in zerg. Theoretically, you should do some damage to them.... However, if they prepare for such a push and are accustomed to your build, you will lose your units and then have a weaker attack timing at 10:00 or 11:00 when medivacs would be coming out normally? What are your thoughts | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On July 04 2012 03:54 Starshaped wrote: CC first is actually safe in TvZ. It only loses to 6pool, and 6pool loses to everything else so nobody does it. Honestly there's been several successful 6pools in top Korean games recently | ||
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Matisyahu
Sweden42 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On July 04 2012 03:09 rebotfc wrote: Yes. You turn around and make the next push later. You still get a CC at 5:00, so you can easily transition into a strong Marine/Marauder/Hellion (or some other composition, this build is pretty open) push later, and start a third around 10:00What do i do if Z gets earlier gas, speedlings and 2+ spines? Just turn around? Just attacked at 6:20 leave my base 6:50 arrived at his, 2 spines loads of speedlings was embarrassing. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:43 Fencar wrote: Yes. You turn around and make the next push later. You still get a CC at 5:00, so you can easily transition into a strong Marine/Marauder/Hellion (or some other composition, this build is pretty open) push later, and start a third around 10:00 The only problem I see is the inevitable followup of a super crazy ling/baneling bust or a roach bust. Nowadays, it's like almost 100% probable to see these kinds of followups to getting a quick gas. With 3 naked rax and a late CC, is it really possible to hold off the followup attack? Assuming the normal timings, you have about 40 seconds to get set up before a potential bust, 30 sec of that is walking back to your base hoping some speedlings won't overrun you. I mean, I feel like this strategy should be aborted WAAAAYYY earlier, like the moment you see gas going down. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On July 04 2012 14:18 SC2John wrote: Considering your high Marine count, you should be OK against the bust if you save your Marines(or are at least cost-effective with them) and build 2-3 Bunkers to absorb Baneling hits or tank Roach shots, as well as getting some Marauders by the time the push hits if you have the money.The only problem I see is the inevitable followup of a super crazy ling/baneling bust or a roach bust. Nowadays, it's like almost 100% probable to see these kinds of followups to getting a quick gas. With 3 naked rax and a late CC, is it really possible to hold off the followup attack? Assuming the normal timings, you have about 40 seconds to get set up before a potential bust, 30 sec of that is walking back to your base hoping some speedlings won't overrun you. I mean, I feel like this strategy should be aborted WAAAAYYY earlier, like the moment you see gas going down. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On July 04 2012 04:25 HaXXspetten wrote: Honestly there's been several successful 6pools in top Korean games recently I would actually like to see this, do you have a source? | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On July 05 2012 06:40 Clarity_nl wrote: I would actually like to see this, do you have a source? The last time I heard of a 6-pool zvt against a Korean was the idra vs alive showmatch. I think we all know how that turned out. | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
On July 05 2012 21:54 MstrJinbo wrote: The last time I heard of a 6-pool zvt against a Korean was the idra vs alive showmatch. I think we all know how that turned out. MKP went CC first and got 6pooled two games in a row and lost both in a TSL4 qualifier iirc | ||
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13JackaL
United States577 Posts
On July 05 2012 21:54 MstrJinbo wrote: The last time I heard of a 6-pool zvt against a Korean was the idra vs alive showmatch. I think we all know how that turned out. alive went CC first on crossfire and held off idra's 6pool. Alive says "u 6poll?" | ||
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Brolettuce
United States48 Posts
i will be trying this out | ||
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Brolettuce
United States48 Posts
the attk w/ the 3rax killed over 20 drones, 10 lings and 4 queens folowed up to 4rax and 2fact w/ marauder marine bf hellion, while he tried to counter allin me w/ bane bust etc and was able to hold it off | ||
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doffe
Sweden636 Posts
On July 04 2012 04:04 Jazzman88 wrote: Hilariously, if you scout after Depot just to be safe when you're going CC-first (on a 2p map... no one should be 6-pooling on 4p), you can see the 6-pool in time to NOT drop a CC, reactively wall in your ramp with 2 Barracks, and repair until Marines pop. Build a CC next, grab gas, defend the inevitable Baneling bust follow-up, and you win. 9 times out of 10, however, when his Drones and Zerglings get there and see you walled, he just leaves. honestly, cant you just CC first with the CC in the wallin where the rax normally is built? Without knowing any exact timings shouldnt you be perfectly safe even against an unscouted 6pool?. I guess the issue is getting your natural blocked from landing the CC but then again, just keep it in the wall muleing until you get some marines, shouldnt be that big a loss and 100% safe. | ||
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Brolettuce
United States48 Posts
If the both attks dont do enough dmg, u will behind tremendously since u will be behind in upgrades, so far out of 15 games of me doing this, only 3 zergs were able to completely shut out the inital 16marine push and about 4 crushed my followup attk. during my followup attk, i try to get 3rd, switch my dbl fact to tanks to be safe against roach bane ling aggression etc, orless i will get messed up easily. so i was wondering, if its possible to get also 1/1 for the followup, while having 3-4 rax production w/ the reactor fact and tech fact for bfh? i feel like this would 1, be really strong and also help for the game later. also ive found that if u 13 scout, u could tell if they are gasing or not, and if they do, the best is to cancel 3rax and go for a 2rax bunker rush, as the slings will rape the 3rax plain marines w/ ease here are some of my replays: http://drop.sc/215683 http://drop.sc/215690 http://drop.sc/215685 http://drop.sc/215691 http://drop.sc/215692 http://drop.sc/215686 http://drop.sc/215680 http://drop.sc/215681 | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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